catch and release or world record?

[Ken Gargett]

the tiger v fish thread, as it became, prompted me to ask this.

assuming you are a fisherman who practices catch and release (possibly a little for food occasionally but that is another issue), if you were out fishing with a guide, for whatever species it is that appeals to you, and you hooked, played and caught a monster of that species. your guide tells you that if you take it back to base where it can be properly measured,weighed, recorded and photographed, then you will undoubtedly have a new world record.

you look at the beautiful fish, which you would normally release unharmed, or as close as possible after catching it, for it to live another day or weigh up a world record against tossing it back.

what would you do?

personally, i'd like to think i'd release it but i suspect i'd never really know until it happened.

[brutusthebuckeye]

I am not a fisherman so i don't know the ins and outs of the trade...

But i would want the record....i say ya put em up on the wall...

[crasmith]

Ken, as an avid fisherman I would love to see it swim away to be played another day providing that I knew that someone else would do the same. However, I have not been in that situation yet. Damn, what a tough decision! I say toss it back!

[Ken Gargett]

Ken, as an avid fisherman I would love to see it swim away to be played another day providing that I knew that someone else would do the same. However, I have not been in that situation yet. Damn, what a tough decision! I say toss it back!

the reality in my case is that it is likely to remain an entirely hypothetical question. but i hope i would free it.

[CigarmanTim]

eat the damn thing!

[wasy]

If I'm with a guide it means I'm fishing for Blue Marlin and if it looking like it might be a world record then let the killin and grillin begin.

[Jesuscookies]

Vittles

[Colt45]

KG, is there really any difference between the fisherman who brings a fish to the scales or the hunter who hangs a tiger's head on his wall?

As for releasing fish "unharmed", I think it's just a bit delusional to think a fish fighting for it's life with a hook in it's mouth isn't stressed or

hurt. I fish, eat fish, eat meat - I just don't wear rose colored glasses while doing so.

I suppose it comes down to what we think of animals and what our / their place is on the planet. I'd more than likely let the fish go.

A number of years back, I recall reading about a mate who was dragged overboard and drowned while wiring a fish (I believe a tourney in

Puerto Rico, but not completely sure). Slightly more recently, a fisherman (I believe Aussie, but again, it's been a few years) seriously

injured by the bill of a marlin which had jumped into the boat. I don't recall if he made it or not.

Chalk up two for the fish?

(I'm honestly just throwing this out for the purpose of discussion)

[Ginseng]

It would depend on the intrinsic motivation behind my choice of catch and release as my modus. If I fish purely for the pleasure of the fight, then a world record and all the attendant recognition would not figure as a driving value for my actions. Back into the drink it would go, and with a smile on my face.

Wilkey

PS. Ross, especially might be interested to know that there is research on catch-and-release fishing.

Effects of different capture techniques on the physiological condition of bonefish Albula vulpes evaluated using field diagnostic tools. Flats Ecology and Conservation Program, Cape Eleuthera Institute, Eleuthera, The Bahamas

Abstract:

A study was conducted on bonefish Albula vulpes in The Bahamas to assess the utility of portable physiological diagnostic tools (i-STAT analyser with E3+ ion and haematology cartridge, ACCU-CHEK glucose meter and Lactate Pro lactate meter) for field physiology applications in remote locations. Physiological values derived from portable diagnostic tools were significantly related to values obtained from standard laboratory techniques [glucose (r.sup.2= 0*96), packed cell volume (PCV; r.sup.2= 0*33), Na.sup.+ (r.sup.2= 0*28), K.sup.+ (r.sup.2= 0*71) and Cl.sup.- (r.sup.2= 0*15)]. Actual values (i.e. intercepts), however, tended to deviate slightly between the two techniques. Nonetheless, these tools showed promise for documenting relative differences among fishes experimentally exposed to treatments inducing different levels of 'stress'. These tools were then used to characterize the effects of different capture techniques on the stress response of A. vulpes. Albula vulpes captured in seines and then temporarily held in pens were physiologically sampled between 1 and 45 min postcapture to evaluate postcapture stress dynamics. Blood glucose and lactate as well as PCV and haemoglobin (Hb) increased rapidly after capture but stabilized at maximal values by c. 20 min postcapture. When angled, larger A. vulpes took longer to exhaust and land than did smaller individuals. In addition, there was a positive relationship between the magnitude of increase in lactate and the duration of the angling event, implying that anglers can reduce stress by minimizing the duration of the fight. Fish sampled before and after a simulated angling treatment displayed clear increases in blood lactate, K.sup.+, PCV and Hb, providing some of the first data on how individual A. vulpes respond to angling stress. In summary, this study revealed that techniques are now available for conducting field physiological studies on A. vulpes and possibly other species in remote locales, and that haematological and biochemical indicators of physiological disturbance vary with the intensity of the angling event.

Fish welfare: a challenge to the feelings-based approach, with implications for recreational fishing. Arlinghaus, Cooke, Schwab, Cowx. Fish and Fisheries 8.1 (March 2007): p57(15).

Abstract:

welfare issues are increasingly appearing on social and political agendas and have recently gained prominence in fisheries literature. By focusing on examples from recreational fishing, this paper challenges some of the previous accounts of fish welfare. Issues of concern encompass: (1) the feelings-based approach to fish welfare; (2) the artificial divide between human beings and nature; and (3) ways in which stakeholders can address fish welfare issues. The different approaches to characterizing the interaction of humans with animals are animal welfare, animal liberation and animal rights. We show that the suffering-centred approaches to fish welfare and the extension of the moral domain to fish - characteristic of the concepts of animal liberation and animal rights - are not the cornerstone of animal welfare. This, however, does not question the need of fisheries stakeholders to consider the well-being of fish when interacting with them. There are many ways in which recreational fishing stakeholders can modify standard practices to improve the welfare of fish, without questioning fishing as an activity per se. Examples are choice of gear and handling techniques. Previous accounts have failed to include discussions of the many efforts - voluntary or mandated - pursued by fisheries stakeholders to reduce fish stress, injury and mortality. Progress towards addressing fish welfare issues will be enhanced by avoiding the viewing of humans as 'non-natural' disturbance to fishes and keeping three types of crucial question in separate compartments. The three questions cover the symptoms of good and poor welfare, the conscious experience of suffering, and the ethical attitudes towards animals. Fish biologists should focus on the first question - objective measurement of biochemical, physiological and behavioural indicators - to evaluate whether human interactions with fish impair the latters' health or prevent them from receiving what they need, if held in captivity.

And sort of related...

Behaviour and survival of pike, Esox lucius, with a retained lure in the lower jaw. R. Arlinghaus, T. Klefoth, A. J. Gingerich, M. R. Donaldson, K. C. Hanson, S. J. Cooke. Fisheries Management and Ecology 15.5-6 (Oct-Dec 2008): p459(8).

The behaviour and survival of pike, Esox lucius L., released with a retained lure in the mouth was studied relative to control fish, which simulated line breakage prior to landing. Behaviour was monitored during the first hour post-release with the aid of visual floats attached to the fish, and longer-term for 3 weeks, by means of externally attached radio transmitters. Lure-treated pike were less mobile during the first hour post-release, but exhibited greater mobility and travelled further distances from the release area in the first 24 h after release than controls. From the second day after release, the behaviour of lure-treated pike was similar to control fish. No mortality occurred in a 3-week monitoring period. These results are indicative of only short-term behavioural impairments resulting from a retained lure and rapid resubmission of normal behaviour after simulated break-offs.

[Ken Gargett]

KG, is there really any difference between the fisherman who brings a fish to the scales or the hunter who hangs a tiger's head on his wall?

As for releasing fish "unharmed", I think it's just a bit delusional to think a fish fighting for it's life with a hook in it's mouth isn't stressed or

hurt. I fish, eat fish, eat meat - I just don't wear rose colored glasses while doing so.

I suppose it comes down to what we think of animals and what our / their place is on the planet. I'd more than likely let the fish go.

A number of years back, I recall reading about a mate who was dragged overboard and drowned while wiring a fish (I believe a tourney in

Puerto Rico, but not completely sure). Slightly more recently, a fisherman (I believe Aussie, but again, it's been a few years) seriously

injured by the bill of a marlin which had jumped into the boat. I don't recall if he made it or not.

Chalk up two for the fish?

(I'm honestly just throwing this out for the purpose of discussion)

colt, i know a lot of this has been covered before. i would suggest a huge difference between a fish and a tiger, starting with the fact that tigers, once a key predator, are now almost extinct and hence every effort should be made to save them. not so a trout or bone etc. if trout became seriously endangered then i would strongly oppose any fishing for them.

re the catch and release, have seen quite a few sets of different statistics.

trout survival apparently is affected by temperature of the water when thay are released. barbed or barbless hooks matter. time to get them into the net/boat/shore. time out of the water. it all depends on so many variables. one thing that many fishermen do not realise is it is vitally important, for their subsequent survival, how you hold them for that all important photo. big fish like barra and tarpon and big pelagics, when you se them lifted by the gills, their chances of survival plummet. you may as well slice thier throats on the spot.

from my experience and what i have read/seen/heard from experts etc, i strongly suspect that the survival rate for large marlin is very poor after release. they expend so much energy that they have so little left and are an easy target for sharks.

i suspect that bonefish vary. i have had bonefish that we've spent ten minutes trying to revive before they do swim off. i suspect that, if barracuda are present, as they certainly are on the flats in cuba, but not really on christmas island, those are in strife. on the other hand, i've had other bones that have bolted instantly and have no doubt that they would be fine.

trout? i really doubt that many, if any, of the trout i have caught have a problem after release. no predators to catch them in weakened state. the exceptions are those fish you occasionally catch that are a long way past their best. they might struggle a little bit but they are headed that way any way.

be interested in the experience or thoughts of others?

[Wiley]

I prefer to fish for fish I plan on eating. That being said, I don't give a crap about records, so I would release it. Well, maybe after a quick photo or five.

[Colt45]

I'm sure you guys already understand, but just to clarify, this is one of those topics I'm looking at as if we were all sitting around, solving

the words problems - I'm not really stating a position.

Wilkey, thanks for taking the time to post the stats - very, very interesting.

[Ken Gargett]

and perhaps there is hoppe for the tiger after all.

[El Presidente]

Thanks for the articles Wilkey.

I practice catch and release in 99% of situations and have done so for close to a decade. During that time I have learn't a few things about fish and myself.

1. Fish are not equal. Some are far tougher than others. If you are serious about Catching and Releasing fish in good condition then you have to understand the species you are targetting, their handling and their tolerance. The longer the fight the lesser the chance of successful release. World record fish normally do not survive due to the fact that you would be using the lightest tackle possible in the main which means the target fish is taken to the brink of exhaustion. Many fish such as Tuna or Bonefish give everything they have in a battle. While playing them for an extra 10 minutes may appear to be fun, if you are serious about Catch and Release then it should be avoided.

2. Some fish are just damn hard to hurt. Only two years ago my son Ben caught a Bass in the morning with a tag. We measured it and recorded it (the number). We caught the same fish again that same afternoon.

3. I get more satisfaction photographing and releasing a fish than keeping it and eating it.

4. Excluding predatory sharks and large Territorial Species (some Grouper), Fish are prey. Marlin can put on 100 lbs in weight a year. Tuna can double their weight in a season and be fully grown within three to five years dependent on species. This allows you to manage a recreational fishery.

My personal opinion re the Tiger Video. Tigers are not prey. You cannot manage the hunting of a territorial slow breeding mammal.

[Colt45]

and perhaps there is hoppe for the tiger after all.

Very nice - young tiger violated by dog. Can you stoop any lower?

[Ken Gargett]

Very nice - young tiger violated by dog. Can you stoop any lower?

certainly but just as well this is a family forum.

and one very brave or stupid dog.