More thoughts about cost verses performance in cigars.

[PigFish]

I think that the pictures here speak for themselves. These are the actual cigars… no changes were made to protect the innocent!

I have opened a box of Monte LE Sublimes. These cigars cost quite a bit more than I normally spend for cigars and due to the cost I believe that they should represent the best that H SA has to offer. First and foremost these cigars look like ****! Now looks aren’t everything but premium, limited edition cigars should represent the epiphany of the cigar makers’ craft. If you can’t even produce them with a satisfactory finish my first thought is why produce them at all? Answer: because some idiot will buy them anyway! In this case I was the idiot!

What I have done next is to bring out an equivalent value of cigars to contrast one of these LE cigars on a dollar for dollar basis. Where do you think my money is better spent?

I think I am better off buying regular production cigars.

[shrink]

What I have done next is to bring out an equivalent value of cigars to contrast one of these LE cigars on a dollar for dollar basis. Where do you think my money is better spent?

I think I am better off buying regular production cigars.

Piggy... I agree, for the same money you can buy either a 25 ct. box of Monte No. 2 or a 25 ct. box of Monte No. 1. In fact, you'll have some change left over.

[brian1]

Maybe its the camera but those Sublimes look good to me.

Piggy... I agree, for the same money you can buy either a 25 ct. box of Monte No. 2 or a 25 ct. box of Monte No. 1. In fact, you'll have some change left over.

[kjellfrick]

A box of mine has equally ugly cigars.

I agree, the money could have been far better spent on regular production cigars.

[PigFish]

Maybe its the camera but those Sublimes look good to me.

Zoom the pictures and take a look at how crude, toothy and veiny the wrappers on the LE's are. Yes... the photo truly does not do the cigars justice!!!

[Ken Gargett]

impossible not to agree when you see that. however, i do think that a good monte sublime is a thing of joy. BUT LE's sould never be a lottery. if they are not first class, every time, then someone should have his/her arse kicked.

this was a shot i took at last year's festival when we looked at the three LE's from 08. was in top condition then. if LE's become simply a way of gouging serious cigar lovers then they will quickly, and deservedly, die.

[PigFish]

...BUT LE's sould never be a lottery. if they are not first class, every time, then someone should have his/her arse kicked.

...if LE's become simply a way of gouging serious cigar lovers then they will quickly, and deservedly, die.

My thoughts exactly!

[Guest rob]

Funnily enough, I never really mind a 'toothy' wrapper... but a rough and veiny one covering an expensive premium cigar is a big letdown visually.

[anacostiakat]

That first pic looks like some serious plume!

[brian1]

Personally I dont really care how a cigar looks, its how it tastes thats important. I mean you can go into to any cigar shop in the U.S and pick out any number of beautiful looking domestic cigars with perfectly engineered connecticut shade wrapper that look a million bucks EXCEPT they taste like ****!

[Guest rob]

Personally I dont really care how a cigar looks, its how it tastes thats importnat to me. I mean you can go into to any cigar shop in the U.S and pick out any number of beautiful looking domestic cigars with perfectly engineered connecticut shade wrapper that look a million bucks EXCEPT they taste like ****!

True... but the cost of these Cuban premiums demands higher standards (imo).

But, if they cost the same as the cigars you mentioned then it would be a different story.

[brian1]

**** some of these Don Nobody sticks are up there in price also.

True... but the cost of these Cuban premiums demands higher standards (imo).

But, if they cost the same as the cigars you mentioned then it would be a different story.

[Guest rob]

If and when the embargo ever gets lifted... and the day comes when Americans can walk into a B&M and buy Cuban cigars... I think a lot of people are going to wish they still bought online - the taxes are going to astound many and the prices that Americans currently pay is going to look like a bargain.

[matthew261]

If and when the embargo ever gets lifted... and the day comes when Americans can walk into a B&M and buy Cuban cigars... I think a lot of people are going to wish they still bought online - the taxes are going to astound many and the prices that Americans currently pay is going to look like a bargain.

SHHHHHHHH! Don't say that out loud. Let one tax & spend politician hear us say such things and the party's over. Just look at what they're doing to Swiss Banks.

[genevapics]

Very nice discussion PigFish. I think many of us agree with you. The LE, RE and other specialty cigars should be made with the very best raw product and rolled by the best rollers in Havana. I agree with brian1's statement, that appearance is not always an indicator of taste. I would add though, that appearance is certainly part of the enjoyment when smoking a fine cigar. I would rather hold a beautiful cigar than an ugly one. That said, "Beauty is in the eye of the beholder."

[El Presidente]

You know I love you Ray

I still can't help but feel you are getting your panties in a knot

1, There have been exceptional and ordinary boxes of Monte LE released. Same as Monte 2. Nothing new here.

2, No one forces people to purchase LE's or RR. Simple supply and demand. The minute product remains in the Habanos warehouse is the minute that their strategy will be re-evaluated. Until 6 months ago their was no boycott as every LE & RR sold sold sold regardless of price.

3 Consistency has always been the bane of Cuban Cgars since Nationalization. It has improved but it is nowhere near perfect. It will not be perfect until people receive a decent days pay for a decent days work.

Ray, I have never defended the pricing system of LE/RR. Ravi and I were concerned enough earlier this year to approach PCC and seek approval to drop the prices of the Regional Releases. They gave it but there was no commensurate drop in our buy price.

I really don't have any problem with the pricing of LE's and RR's. They are no different to top line Padron or Fuente or Ghurka (God forbid).

What peeves me is that they do not reach the consistency of construction of these cigars.

I know how hard guys like Punch Joe are tryng to change things from the inside. However the problem is bigger than that. The problem is so deeprooted in social inequality issues that it will not be solved in the short term. Inconsistency of cigar production is a symptom ala lack of customer service in Cuba.

However occasionally there come some gems. Was the Cohiba DC worth the money.....absolutely yes. How about the Sublimes....yes. You could go on and list 5 or 6. Personally I wouldn't purchase all the LE's released. Some however are now legendary or are potentially so ....ala Cohiba Piramides 2006.

[anacostiakat]

Good post Rob. Let's not forget it is a hand rolled product as well. I agree with you totally.

You can go into any US shop (that carries them) and purchase a Padron cigar and get a very consistent cigar. And the cigar tastes great IMHO. Fuente and La Aurora along with Tatuaje are some of my favorites. I like to smoke them because I do not have as much aged stock as I would like and honestly cant always afford to purchase what I would like.

Do they offer the complexity of a cuban cigar? No. But they do offer an enjoyable experience.

[greenpimp]

Personally I am glad the extra premium LE and REs are as much of a crapshoot as the rest of regular productions. With a few noteable exceptions (Por Larranaga esp.) I buy exclusively regular production. If they truly used only the best materials and rollers and QC on the limited stuff, then it would affect the quality of construction and leaf of my beloved regular smokes much more. This way we're all in the same boat, just someone else is consistently paying much more for the exclusivity and feeling of betterness with their limittattas.

[jwm8592]

My $.02 would be that I probably haven't been at it long enough to agree one way or another, now with that being said some of my more recent purchases which coincidentally have been the Cohiba Piramides 2006 (actually bought them about 7-9 mos ago),

Monte Sublimes, and the Siglo VI have all looked like ****, and the only one of the group that I have smoked thus far, the

Cohiba Piramides was ****, at least at the time of my smoking (as reviewed on here). The Siglo VI's I just received felt under filled, and the wrappers on a majority of them are spotted and veiny, as well as have a deeper brown coloring to them, not the same sheen light tan coloring of the CoRo. Don't know maybe there not supposed to look similar to the CoRo. So I guess in theory I agree w/Piggy and when I look at all the money I spent on these, to think I could have gone safe w/some RASS, or PSD4's, or even RyJSC and bought more than double what I rec'd, who knows. Like Pres said your hoping to catch that once in a generation cigar I suppose. Hope I'm not speaking out of turn here, just wanted to relay my thoughts due to it really being the first time that I have spent BIG dollars on the so-called BIG boy cigars. Boy, being newer at this hobby does have its disadvantages.

[El Presidente]

My $.02 would be that I probably haven't been at it long enough to agree one way or another, now with that being said some of my more recent purchases which coincidentally have been the Cohiba Piramides 2006 (actually bought them about 7-9 mos ago),

Monte Sublimes, and the Siglo VI have all looked like ****, and the only one of the group that I have smoked thus far, the

Cohiba Piramides was ****, at least at the time of my smoking (as reviewed on here). The Siglo VI's I just received felt under filled, and the wrappers on a majority of them are spotted and veiny, as well as have a deeper brown coloring to them, not the same sheen light tan coloring of the CoRo. Don't know maybe there not supposed to look similar to the CoRo. So I guess in theory I agree w/Piggy and when I look at all the money I spent on these, to think I could have gone safe w/some RASS, or PSD4's, or even RyJSC and bought more than double what I rec'd, who knows. Like Pres said your hoping to catch that once in a generation cigar I suppose. Hope I'm not speaking out of turn here, just wanted to relay my thoughts due to it really being the first time that I have spent BIG dollars on the so-called BIG boy cigars. Boy, being newer at this hobby does have its disadvantages.

It is important that everyone speaks their mind openly.

Take some photo's of your cigars and post them or e-mail me as I would be interested in having a look at them. All Cohiba's vary from Colorado to Colorado Maduro with the tendency to Colorado. Again remember it is a bell curve.

I have had some Cohiba Piramides which were muted in flavour but none that tasted like shite. In the main as many have reviewed here they have been exemplary with real promise to be something special.

Overall tough commentary for smoking one cigar from three boxes. I smoke a hell of a lot of seconds (ugly buggers or slightly damaged) as does Smithy and occasionally they have been some of the finest cigars of all.

As for RASS/D4 etc etc ....there are still plenty we send back to PCC for replacement.

Keep your humidity in a tight band of 61-65%. Drybox a day or so. Would love to see another review down the track

[shortsqueeze]

I look for a high quality experience both in taste and appearance. With '06-'08 boxes I have seen a lot of wrapper that should have been rejected from the get-go; spotted, large veins, inconsistent, green tint, etc. etc. Then of course there are the sloppy caps; also drives me nuts. This tells me they are making more cigars than they should, either because they are trying to boost production or just don't have the raw material to make the numbers they need. In the case of sloppy caps, I agree with Rob ie. wages. But then I get a 50 cab of SLR A ('03) some years ago and nearly every cigar is perfect both in appearance and construction. Given there could have been 25 different rollers involved I can't figure it out how such a perfect box comes out and how such lousy ones do in the same breath (since sorting criteria is color only). Like everything nowadays, quality continues to go out the window yet prices are still climbing. They used to use Corojo, but it yields low and is disease prone. I'd rather be on a waiting list for a box of Churchills than have an abundance of lousy looking boxes available on any given day. Of course this is not the way of the world, so I'm ranting. All you can do is reject box after box after box, or have a good tobacconist who is well versed in your preferences and standards do it for you.

[Colt45]

Piggy, all I can say is that I'm surprised you went for the Monte donkey dongs!

Your penance should be to smoke three lanceros and two carlotas

[PigFish]

Piggy, all I can say is that I'm surprised you went for the Monte donkey dongs!

Your penance should be to smoke three lanceros and two carlotas

There is a story behind it... check your PM. -P

[PigFish]

There is an ancillary point here and it surrounds these extraordinarily large cigars. It is apparent that there is not enough quality wrapper leaf to cover them all up. We can have a conversations about wrapper contribution but that is not my point here. Wrappers should "finish" a cigar, they should be of high quality and look good. That is really all I ask of them.

If I go to the market and all the tuna cans are beat up I won't buy tuna! I don't like seeing the original packaging of anything beat up. The likelihood of damaged goods inside is increased multifold. When the producers of cigars can't supply reasonable amounts of quality materials then the probability of a good overall product is reduced. If the finish is poor outside I can't believe that any care was used to construct the rest of the cigar either!

[PigFish]

You know I love you Ray

I still can't help but feel you are getting your panties in a knot

Rob! Rob! Rob! I think much of my point is being missed here.

My post is only in small part to gripe but by doing so I don't expect you to fix it for me. I am not bashful babe... you know that. If I want you to fix it I’ll ask! The fix is in me and the other consumers of these products. My fix is not to be suckered into buying these rat bastards anymore. My problem is I love cigars. I like knowing that I have experienced as many cigars as I can although it was somewhat of a mental breakdown that lead me to end up with these! That experience gives me wisdom and knowledge about my hobby; I love knowledge but hate getting ripped off pursuing it. That is the gripe.

The majority of my posting about this is to enlighten and not as much to ***** about something I know I can't change at the production level. Why? Because enlightenment changes minds, it changes purchasing habits and perhaps in the long run convinces H SA to go back to their roots. I am not trying to sour your customers on LE's. I would only like to see some of these folks who have never picked up a coronas or lonsdale to pick one up and perhaps put some demand back to the producer. I can’t tell you how many people credit me for the fact that I introduced them to the du Depute or a La Punta or Grandes de Espana. It is nice knowing that you shared some knowledge, or shared a cigar and changed that person’s perspective. Hell I gave a kid at the video store a Partagas Chico to start him off and a Bolivar T-1 yesterday!!! I can’t imagine if I got stuck in the RASS, EPI-2, D-4 rut how many fine cigars I would have missed.

Listen baby you provided me the soap box!!! Its all your ******* fault that I speak up here!!!! Just ask Lisa! I am happy to talk shop and take criticism from you any day Amigo and like you… sometimes I just like to rattle the cane and stir up the snakes!

Just don't go Kiwi on me okay? The lost Ausborne, Ray