Ken Gargett Posted January 11, 2009 Posted January 11, 2009 i've only been able to have a look at the top ten - for some reason, i can't seem to locate/open the others on the CA site at the moment. of those ten, two cubans and top prize to what seems cheapie. to be honest, i don't think i've ever smoked any of the others - largely because i have smoked very few non cubans. we just see so few here and i'm yet to see the point of spending the sort of money necessary to chase them. that doesn't mean i wouldn't - it would be nice to have more of a reference for comparison. any list like this - cigars, wine, cars, women, sportsmen, whatever - will cop disparaging comments from a large number of people, as they never quite accord with what people think they should be. in this case, i'd be interested, first to see the full list - no doubt when the mag comes out; and secondly, what those forum members who do have experience think of the cigars nominated. one of the things i find interesting is how not only members of this forum but others will dump on the list for not being cuban-dominant. personally, i always think if it were purely on quality, it should be almost all cuban (but acknowledge lack of experience in the NC's), because that is what i smoke, what i am interested in and what everything leads me to believe are the top smokes on the planet. the point is that the mag acknowledges, as its sister publication - the wine spec - also does, that it is down to more than just quality (you can fairly argue that should be the only criteria or just as fairly acknowledge that many factors are relevant). gordon mott says on the site - "We do not base the final selection for the Top 25 on scores alone. If we did that, then we wouldn’t even bother to hold a special tasting for it; we’d just go down the scores given during the year and rank the cigars from one to 25. But gee, what fun would that be? We really do consider everything from price to country of origin to production quantities and that word intangibles." cynics can argue that intangibles allows scope for making advertisers happy and the reality is that you can't really avoid that completely. had a bit of a look at the forum of the mag and the responses and there seems to be general amazement and incredility. heaps of responses. i guess for the mag, that is great. generates interest and debate. problem is that you can only do this so often without stuffing your credibility. i must say i am perplexed by 'country of origin'. this seems to indicate that each cigar's ranking is partly down to where it is made. why and what really does that have to do with anything? does he mean availability? a different thing and if so, then obviously cuba is penalised here - no point in having 25 cuban smokes that the vast majority of readers can't get (assuming they don't know abou this site). in that case, prhaps no cubans should make the list, which would make it look silly. the wine speccy is hardly going to do a list of its top wines and cut out france. so are they just including a few cubans as tokensthis is not to criticise as i think it is a tough tightrope and i suspect that it is an impossible one. be interested in any other members' thoughts.
gwags Posted January 11, 2009 Posted January 11, 2009 CA's parameters: " We do not base the final selection for the Top 25 on scores alone. If we did that, then we wouldn’t even bother to hold a special tasting for it; we’d just go down the scores given during the year and rank the cigars from one to 25. But gee, what fun would that be? We really do consider everything from price to country of origin to production quantities and that word intangibles, which boils down to whether or not we find something unique about the cigar that sets it apart from other products in the market today." It's like a beauty contest, the best looking gal rarely wins cause they include other things like personality, talents, speech, and other things as a red blooded male I could give a rats ass about (for a beauty contest) ! I want to see the best looking gal win but it never happens .... maybe a poor comparison but I think you get the point.
tapewormboy Posted January 11, 2009 Posted January 11, 2009 Here's an unofficial list. 11-25 are not confirmed yet since they will not be released until Monday, but this list is floating around on some of the other forums. 25. Alec Bradley Tempus 24. Savinelli Special Selection 2005 23. Hoyo de Monterrey - Hoyo de Tradicion 22. Bolivar Habana - Size? 21. El Rey del Mundo - Size? 20. Mi Dominicana 19. San Cristobal de la Habana - Size? 18. XiKAR Defiance 17. Carlos Torano Casa Torano Maduro 16. Black Pearl Torp 15. Rocky Patel Decade Torp 14. La Aurora Barrel Aged Torp 13. Cabaiguan Guapo 12. Oliva Serie V (maduro?) 11. Juan Lopez Habana - Probably #2? 10. Ashton Heritage Puro Sol 9. La Gloria Cubana 8. Don Pepin Garcia Blue Lancero 7. H. Upmann Habana 6. Romeo y Julieta Habana Short Churchill 5. Fuente Don Carlos 30th Anniversary 2006 4. La Aroma de Cuba Edicion Especial #5 Torpedo 3. Lito Gomez Diez Chisel 2. Pardon Serie 1926 80 Years Perfecto 1. Fonseca Casa Magna Robusto
gwags Posted January 11, 2009 Posted January 11, 2009 Fonseca Canine Magnum Robusto? Huh? LMAO!!! #1 is ... still a BIGGER HUH?!?!?! Manuel Quesada has been making cigars since 1974. His original cigars were mild bodied, most of them a blend of Dominican filler and binder tobaccos cloaked with light Connecticut-seed wrappers. His latest endeavors are bolder, more vibrant smokes. The Casa Magna is his greatest innovation. He joined forces with Nicaragua’s largest grower of cigar tobacco, Nestor Plasencia, and created this blend in Plasencia’s Segovia Cigar factory. The line of five cigars saw first light in the summer at an industry trade show and the entire brand was initially reviewed in the August 26 Cigar Insider. Standing above the other sizes was the robusto, a stubby cigar with a bold heart of Cuban-seed tobacco, all of it grown in two very different regions of Nicaragua: tobacco from Estelí (the area where most Nicaraguan cigars are produced) tends to be strong, while that grown in Jalapa, to the north, is typically more balanced and elegant. Together they combine to create a full-flavored cigar, full of rich coffee notes and balanced by a cedary sweetness with a hint of raisins. Best of all is the price: at only $5.25, this superb smoke is less expensive than all but one cigar on this list (No. 23, which is a nickel cheaper.) The word “Colorado” in the brand name refers to the dark, slightly reddish hue of the wrapper, and is a hint that Quesada will expand this line to more styles. It will be hard to improve upon this
Ken Gargett Posted January 11, 2009 Author Posted January 11, 2009 It's like a beauty contest, the best looking gal rarely wins cause they include other things like personality, talents, speech, and other things as a red blooded male I could give a rats ass about (for a beauty contest) ! I want to see the best looking gal win but it never happens .... maybe a poor comparison but I think you get the point. that was what i was getting at. when the judges decide to include 'intangibles', then it is hard to argue as completely subjective. i'm still puzzled by country of origin. to follow your analogy, it is like saying that miss world is partly judged on what country you come from. as an aside, when i lived in DC, i met the current (then) miss usa, or possibly miss america. mistook her for a hooker. all a bit embarassing and who knew that the locals would take that as a deliberate insult? it was not intended.
patman24 Posted January 11, 2009 Posted January 11, 2009 As much as CA would hate to admit it, CA is a sellout. Even if they only allowed non Cuban cigars for Cigar of the Year award, they still would have not gotten it right. The only person worth listening to in CA is James Suckling, who has some honestly left in his soul. Is there a real Cigar magazine out there?
Spartan Posted January 11, 2009 Posted January 11, 2009 I call BS on the whole CA selection process. IIRC while blind tasting/smoking they only smoke one inch of the cigar then on to the next contestant...ONE INCH!
kilroy Posted January 11, 2009 Posted January 11, 2009 As much as CA would hate to admit it, CA is a sellout. Even if they only allowed non Cuban cigars for Cigar of the Year award, they still would have not gotten it right. The only person worth listening to in CA is James Suckling, who has some honestly left in his soul. Is there a real Cigar magazine out there? Could that be a reason why we haven't heard a thing from him about the list? I watched the three top 25 videos from the CA site expecting to see him there but he was no where to be found. He's probably at his Tuscany home smoking Cohibas and drinking wine... not that I blame him.
Colt45 Posted January 11, 2009 Posted January 11, 2009 personally, i always think if it were purely on quality, it should be almost all cuban (but acknowledge lack of experience in the NC's), because that is what i smoke, what i am interested in and what everything leads me to believe are the top smokes on the planet. Unless I misinterpret, I have to disagree with you here. Many NCs equal and surpass Cuban cigars in overall quality. Especially in terms of construction, Cuba plays second fiddle to many NC producers. Taste / flavor is subjective and another story......
Fishhound Posted January 11, 2009 Posted January 11, 2009 As much as CA would hate to admit it, CA is a sellout. Even if they only allowed non Cuban cigars for Cigar of the Year award, they still would have not gotten it right. The only person worth listening to in CA is James Suckling, who has some honestly left in his soul. Is there a real Cigar magazine out there? This was what I was going to say. They only smoke a portion of the cigar. I recall it being the first third but perhaps less. How the hell could you rate a cigar without smoking the whole cigar. I recently smoked a Monty Robusto LE 2001, the cigar was amazing till the last third where I was over whelmed with ammonia. CA would never have known that if they rated it. My conclusion when it comes to CA rating I call Bullshit. Now Rob, Ken and Smitty you guys get a To bad you don't review many NC's
Fishhound Posted January 11, 2009 Posted January 11, 2009 Unless I misinterpret, I have to disagree with you here. Many NCs equal and surpass Cuban cigars in overall quality.Especially in terms of construction, Cuba plays second fiddle to many NC producers. Taste / flavor is subjective and another story...... I tend to agree with you on this one Colt. Cuba is years behind cigar making and quality control, compared to Padron, Oliva, Fuente....ect. The lure to Cubans to me is their unique flavor, and perhaps smoking something I'm not suppose to have. Their profile can only be had for Cuban tobacco. It is the soil and the unique micro climate they have that makes them what they are. When Habanos SA started freezing boxes for beetle control, Oliva had been doing that for 30 years. Just remember when you smoke a Cuban cigar you are smoking a government made product, I think that should put things in perspective.
Habanos2000 Posted January 11, 2009 Posted January 11, 2009 Unless I misinterpret, I have to disagree with you here. Many NCs equal and surpass Cuban cigars in overall quality.Especially in terms of construction, Cuba plays second fiddle to many NC producers. Taste / flavor is subjective and another story...... Colt, I think you're right on the money with your comment. I have to agree that NC's are consistently better quality than CC's. Not that I prefer smoking NC's over CC's nor paying Fuente or Padron $30 a stick for their high end stuff. But I think there is also the allure of smoking a Cuban, cigars from the holy grail of cigar land, especially when our free country determines for us that we shouldn't be smoking one.
Colt45 Posted January 11, 2009 Posted January 11, 2009 Just remember when you smoke a Cuban cigar you are smoking a government made product, I think that should put things in perspective. Exactly. I've said before that I look forward to the day when HSA will be allowed to have competiton from private producers.
Van55 Posted January 11, 2009 Posted January 11, 2009 I really don't understand why so many get so bent out of shape over cA's ratings, including the annual top 25 list. These are subjective judgements by four guys (as I recall) who base their judgments on smoking 1/2" to 1" of each cigar -- according to the cA guy who arranges the tastings. While cA's employees have probably smoked many more cigars than I have, I realize that everyone's tastes are different. So their opinions are entitled only to whatever weight the reader chooses to give them. If you disagree with the ratings, so be it. But you're no more "expert" than they are except on one issue -- what YOU like. On that you're the sole authority in the world. I do enjoy the discussions that the lists always generate. I think I will see if I can find some of cA's 2008 cigar of the year and send them to Rob with a request that he and the boys do their own video review of the cigar. That might be a hoot!.
WYPirate Posted January 11, 2009 Posted January 11, 2009 So their opinions are entitled only to whatever weight the reader chooses to give them. If you disagree with the ratings, so be it. But you're no more "expert" than they are except on one issue -- what YOU like. On that you're the sole authority in the world. DING DING DING! Well said. The CA top 10/25 has done exactly what it has been designed to do, generate discussion, debate, and put the suggestion in one's head to see for themselves how the selections hold up...in their own opinion. Of the top 25, I have only smoked the number 16, 15, 10, and 6 selections. If I were to make a top four of those, they would fall in an entirely different order than listed, with the Ashton on top, followed by the RyJ, that's my taste. That said, I smoke the entire cigar. If CA's panel does not, that's their loss, and IMO, I think that practice should be changed for the benefit of the reader. CA's regular tasting/scoring section in it's periodicals does hold some weight with my selection of cigars I'd like to buy. My process is to find samplers or singles that might include a sampling of what was rated in CA, try them for myself, and if I like any of them, I'll buy a box or mazo and squirrel them away. Nearly every cigar in my humidor is one I like, and have plenty on hand to enjoy over time. The exceptions are the CCs from samplers I purchased from FOH, just giving them some time.
Van55 Posted January 12, 2009 Posted January 12, 2009 Here's the official (and detailed) list: 25. Alec Bradley Tempus Centuria 24. Savinelli Special Selection 2005 Torpedo 23. Hoyo de Tradicion -- Toro Grande 22. Bolivar Belicoso Fino 21. El Rey del Mundo Flor de Llanza 20. Mi Dominicana by Jose Siejas Robusto 19. San Cristobal de la Habana La Fuerza 18. XiKAR Defiance The Guardian 17. Carlos Torano Maduro Robusto 16. Black Pearl Maduro Torpedo 15. Rocky Patel Decade Torpedo 14. La Aurora Barrel Aged Belicoso 13. Cabaiguan Guapo 12. Oliva Serie V Liga Escecial Double Robusto 11. Juan Lopez #2 10. Ashton Heritage Puro Sol Robusto 9. La Gloria Cubana Artisans de Miami Elegante 8. Don Pepin Garcia Blue Lancero 7. H. Upmann Sir Winston 6. Romeo y Julieta Short Churchill 5. Don Carlos Edicion de Anniversario Double Robusto 4. La Aroma de Cuba Edicion Especial #5 3. Lito Gomez Diez 2008 Chisel Puro 2. Padron Serie 1926 80 Years Maduro 1. Fonseca Casa Magna Robusto Obviously the italicized entries are Habanos.
jwm8592 Posted January 12, 2009 Posted January 12, 2009 I personally have never smoked CA's #1 choice, so I know nothing of this cigar. But I just look at their findings for what they are, an (American) magazine trying to grow their base, and help their advertisers. And obviously that $5 cigar being affordable will probably be purchased by many who are curious. Versus if they select a CC as #1, most in the states are perhaps unaware of how to procure that selection, let alone afford it. Or are unsure of the validity of their purchase options. So as was said previously, its a US publication promoting a cigar that can be had by any in the states.
Ken Gargett Posted January 13, 2009 Author Posted January 13, 2009 Unless I misinterpret, I have to disagree with you here. Many NCs equal and surpass Cuban cigars in overall quality.Especially in terms of construction, Cuba plays second fiddle to many NC producers. Taste / flavor is subjective and another story...... no arguments, colt. that was what i was alluding to with the comment re lack of experience for NC's. i just almost never see any and if the NC's are reaching those levels, i wouldn't know. i think i probably fall into the same category as the french who automatically declare all champagne greater than all other sparkling wine. which is rubbish. the top champagnes undoubtedly rule but there are many aussie, especially tassie, sparklers that exceed lesser champagnes. no doubt some of the fizz from the northwest does as well and i have seen some stunning cavas (sadly, almost all were in spain and not exported).
Fishhound Posted January 13, 2009 Posted January 13, 2009 no arguments, colt. that was what i was alluding to with the comment re lack of experience for NC's. i just almost never see any and if the NC's are reaching those levels, i wouldn't know. Ken, I would like to offer you the opportunity to change that. I'm willing to send you some cigars of other origin to try. Let me know if you are interested and if there is anything specific that has your curiosity. I could also pick out a assortment of cigars that are personal favorites of mine.
Caesar Posted January 13, 2009 Posted January 13, 2009 Colt, I think you're right on the money with your comment. I have to agree that NC's are consistently better quality than CC's. Not that I prefer smoking NC's over CC's nor paying Fuente or Padron $30 a stick for their high end stuff. But I think there is also the allure of smoking a Cuban, cigars from the holy grail of cigar land, especially when our free country determines for us that we shouldn't be smoking one. Speaking purely about construction, I don't think anything matches Padron. Always a perfect burn and draw. Always. Flavor profile is another story...
Colt45 Posted January 14, 2009 Posted January 14, 2009 Speaking purely about construction, I don't think anything matches Padron. Always a perfect burn and draw. Always. Flavor profile is another story... My personal benchmark for quality of construction is AVO. I'd love to see what Hendrik Kelner would do with Cuban tobacco. There are people already situated in Cuba who I'd like to see have a chance to go it alone as well
Van55 Posted January 14, 2009 Posted January 14, 2009 It's a done deal. Rob will be receiving a handful of the Magna whatever #1 cigar from me within a couple of weeks. He and gargett and the boys will do a video review. I am REALLY looking forward to this.
mkz Posted January 14, 2009 Posted January 14, 2009 My personal benchmark for quality of construction is AVO. Im with you on that one colt. I find the construction on AVOs cigars impeccable.
El Presidente Posted January 14, 2009 Posted January 14, 2009 I don't get bent out of shape on CA ratings. CA is is business and a highly successful one at that which has played a major role in shaping the global cigar industry (you can argue for better or worse). Their Magazine, their tasting regime, their top 25 list. It generates discussion and sales and no doubt that is what i is intended to do. Personally, I would be interested in trying some of the cigars listed. I don't consider the list as being a definitive "Best" of anything. The way they taste cigars, the number of cigars they leave out simply precludes that. The CA's top 25 is akin to the rankings of one of the Boxing federations....WBA/IBF/IBA etc etc. No two are the same.
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