Mike33 Posted May 9, 2008 Share Posted May 9, 2008 Need some career advice. Just got done with my first year of law school and I am interning this summer with Legal Aid of West. MO. I am curious to know what are your opinions regarding working for a large firm or working for a medium/small firm; advantages/disadvantages ect. I have been thinking of trying to get a summer associate job for the next year at one of the large firms in KC and the OCI start in Aug. Is this a good way to get a "feel" for the big firms? I know competition is tough for the summer associate jobs at large firms and the money is good, but I'm wondering if working at a large firm is worth the hours and lack of freedom. Any advice is welcome, thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken Gargett Posted May 9, 2008 Share Posted May 9, 2008 if you are looking at a longer term career in law and not using it as a stepping stone for something else, get in to the best firm you can, and unless that is a small specialist firm practicing in the area that appeals, it will almost certainly be the biggest, most soulless one you can find. it is a hell of a lot easier to ease down to smaller firms later, if that is what you want, than it is to climb up from a small firm to the big names. that was the advice given to me by a lawyer in DC years ago and it still makes sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Presidente Posted May 9, 2008 Share Posted May 9, 2008 The advice took Ken a long way Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike33 Posted May 9, 2008 Author Share Posted May 9, 2008 » if you are looking at a longer term career in law and not using it as a » stepping stone for something else, get in to the best firm you can, and » unless that is a small specialist firm practicing in the area that » appeals, it will almost certainly be the biggest, most soulless one you » can find. it is a hell of a lot easier to ease down to smaller firms » later, if that is what you want, than it is to climb up from a small firm » to the big names. that was the advice given to me by a lawyer in DC years » ago and it still makes sense. It does make sense and I know getting out of law school I will need the money that the large firms can pay. However, I just don't think I would ever want to work at one long enough to make partner.....just doesn't seem fulfilling to me. I really think after several years I'd like to maybe go into the US Attorney's office somewhere or work for a Gov. Agency. Anyways, thanks for the advice Ken. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rallones Posted May 9, 2008 Share Posted May 9, 2008 »» It does make sense and I know getting out of law school I will need the money that the large firms can pay. However, I just don't think I would ever want to work at one long enough to make partner.....just doesn't seem fulfilling to me. I really think after several years I'd like to maybe go into the US Attorney's office somewhere or work for a Gov. Agency." This advice is worth what you're paying for it. Almost none of the lawyers who join big firms nowadays intend to stay long enough to make partner. In my 600+ lawyer firm (where I have been a partner since '04), I expect that fewer than 10% of the next incoming class intend to make the firm their career. Most use the firm as a springboard to something else. You should do the same. Ken's advice is very sound. A big firm gig will put some $$ in your pocket, get you good experience, and open doors to transition into something else (in-house, govt., etc.). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobLobLaw Posted May 9, 2008 Share Posted May 9, 2008 Go for the best paying summer associate position you can get for 2 reasons: 1) the money, a big firm will pay you 40k for the summer. Plus most of them hire out of their summer associate classes at close to 100%, you will not have to stress about jobs your third year and during the bar and they will cover your bar expenses plus a stipend. PUT AS MUCH OF THE MONEY YOU MAKE TOWARDS YOUR LOANS!!! 2) If, after the bar, you don't like the big firm you have the "pedigree" to move just about anywhere smaller, yes you will take a pay cut. However, you already got a substantial amount of money from them during school. Reasons to leave a big firm 1) big money means big time in the office they will pay you well while working you to death. 2) depending on what you want to do the experience at a big firm is much much less then smaller places. Big firm ligitation associates will not see the courtroom for several years while at a smaller place you will be there in a matter of weeks. Some generalizations, but thats my opinion. Take it for what its worth. Good luck! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caesar Posted May 9, 2008 Share Posted May 9, 2008 It really depends on whether you have a definite type of law in mind and what kind of "experience" you want to gain vs. compensation. Obviously, bigger firms pay more. However, the opportunity for actual hands on client interaction and/or courtroom experience is less at a big firm (you may observe when you become a junior associate, but you are less likely to actually do anything interesting). You also are a 1L, so this summer is a summer to figure out what you like and what you don't. Your summer 2L job is very likely your first job after you graduate, so best to have an actual gameplan next year. If you are work at Legal Aid, you have a great opportunity to get to court and litigate. Its a good summer job if you plan to be a litigator. Let us know how it goes during the summer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caesar Posted May 9, 2008 Share Posted May 9, 2008 I really think after several years I'd like to maybe go » into the US Attorney's office somewhere or work for a Gov. Agency." » » I am former prosecutor and can tell you that the best career path to a District Attorney's Office or US Attorney's Office is a resume demonstrating an interest in public service (first summer is ideal for that). Ideally, one does have some private practice experience as well before going to the US Attorney's Office (you have to write well). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdbrown Posted May 9, 2008 Share Posted May 9, 2008 Mike, I employ the services of several attorneys two of which are in KC here. Damn they got cush jobs! I would be willing to talk to them and get their thoughts. I am currently working on a class action suit so I am a little bitter towards the legal profession at this moment! It's a love/hate thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike33 Posted May 10, 2008 Author Share Posted May 10, 2008 » Mike, » » I employ the services of several attorneys two of which are in KC here. » Damn they got cush jobs! I would be willing to talk to them and get their » thoughts. I am currently working on a class action suit so I am a little » bitter towards the legal profession at this moment! It's a love/hate » thing. Yea that would be great if you could get their thoughts! Thanks for all the feedback and advice guys. About so called "target" billable hours, I know some firms in KC have them set at 1800-1900 per year, but how many hours would you expect to put in to reach that number? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken Gargett Posted May 10, 2008 Share Posted May 10, 2008 About so called "target" » billable hours, I know some firms in KC have them set at 1800-1900 per » year, but how many hours would you expect to put in to reach that number? i really wouldn't be woried about that sort of thing at the moment. if one of the big firms takes you, then they'll be fairly certain you can make your hours, or at least give it a shot. otherwise they would not waste their time. the comment above about the small number that go on to partnership, is spot on and the firms know this. part of the process is you deciding your direction and them weeding out those that they don't see as partners long term. i can also remember the firn i was with in DC telling me that they expect to make a loss on incoming lawyers for the first four or five years. i'll never forget the first morning at law school when a lecturer said that only one in seven of us would go onto law firm partnership. we all scoffed but when i think back, might be lucky to be that. combo of some bailing, some failing, all sorts of things. and i suspect that the rate is far higher in the usa. i met many law students there who never had any intention of doing the partnership thing which was a real surprise to me as in oz, there were very, very few, at least in my day, who felt that way. in oz at the time, you had to make a decision on youur future at age 16 or 17 - ridiculously young. part of the reason for such a high percentage not persisting. i much prefer the pre-law or pre-med idea and i think we do that now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Twain Posted May 11, 2008 Share Posted May 11, 2008 » Thanks for all the feedback and advice guys. About so called "target" » billable hours, I know some firms in KC have them set at 1800-1900 per » year, but how many hours would you expect to put in to reach that number? Just become a writer and quit bitchin' :-P. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mkz Posted November 15, 2008 Share Posted November 15, 2008 I´m certainly no lawyer but heres an advice: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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