El Presidente Posted November 30, 2007 Share Posted November 30, 2007 » 1) Is the factory code and date stamp supposed to be upright, upside down The box stamp on my box was upside down. I have seen it a million times before. » or in some specific color? Not sure. I haven't checked enough boxes as yet. I will assume every time there was a change of run there will be a change of colour/font » 2) Is there a specific number on the box somewhere as the package insert » suggests? Each box isnumbered. Will shoot a photo Monday. » I shoot with a Canon 350D Digital SLR on Auto setting. I could go to manual settings and improve the shots by 10% but a photography forum this is not ;-) Interstingly....the cigars in both photo's look Identical. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Candido Posted November 30, 2007 Share Posted November 30, 2007 » I am NOT trying to stir up trouble. I offer the questions in the spirit » of open, honest communication and the quest for insight into the mysteries » of Habanos. » » Yours truly, » » Dave Dave, I think I unintentionally stirred up trouble and would love it to go away now. If you or Ken or anyone everyone trusts would like a single sent from the box to compare, I am happy to send it. Other than that, I am finished discussing this issue, and have no further information for anyone trying to trace these back. This will be my last post on the PL Robusto topic. Regards, Don Candido Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toasterhead Posted December 1, 2007 Author Share Posted December 1, 2007 Thank you, oh wise one. My sixth grade teacher told me that there are no stupid questions, only stupid people. :-D Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toasterhead Posted December 1, 2007 Author Share Posted December 1, 2007 Don, Peace be upon you, unmet brother of the leaf. No offense meant and I hope none taken. Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Presidente Posted December 1, 2007 Share Posted December 1, 2007 Don, No trouble stirred up at all What you have stirred up is interest .....a hell of a lot of it. What is fascinating is that your PL Robusto are dead set authentic and purchased in Havana complete with Havana retail sticker and 4 weeks prior to release. This is a cigar that has no right to be sold in Havana but there is no negativity in relation to yourself or your source of supply. Hell I would have snapped them up in a heartbeat! What interests me is the process of control in HSA. The issue here is not your PL Robusto but the sheer fact that a unique box of cigars (which they don't own) can find its way to the public. It raises much bigger questions as to if they cannot control something as simple as the release of PL Robusto....how do they intend to control fakes eminating from Havana....and even their capacity for protection of the Distribution rights of their license holders when they cannot even control what goes in and out of their factories and warehouses? Your PL Robusto posts have been enlightening, worrying and enthralling ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Candido Posted December 1, 2007 Share Posted December 1, 2007 » Don, » » Peace be upon you, unmet brother of the leaf. No offense meant and I hope » none taken. » » Dave No offense taken from you or anyone Dave. I can understand everyone's interest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Candido Posted December 1, 2007 Share Posted December 1, 2007 » Don, » » No trouble stirred up at all » » What you have stirred up is interest .....a hell of a lot of it. » »... » » Your PL Robusto posts have been enlightening, worrying and enthralling ;-) Rob- This response shows me you are exactly what you said you are. A lover of cigars first, and a retailer second. Very cool. -Don Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken Gargett Posted December 1, 2007 Share Posted December 1, 2007 don't quote me but i agree with rob. a really interesting thread. do it more often. i'd love for you to check inside the box to see if there has been any evidence of a number out of 6,000 still there or if it looks like there was one and it has been removed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curt Posted December 1, 2007 Share Posted December 1, 2007 » Don, » » No trouble stirred up at all » » What you have stirred up is interest .....a hell of a lot of it. » » What is fascinating is that your PL Robusto are dead set authentic and » purchased in Havana complete with Havana retail sticker and 4 weeks prior » to release. » » This is a cigar that has no right to be sold in Havana but there is no » negativity in relation to yourself or your source of supply. Hell I would » have snapped them up in a heartbeat! » » What interests me is the process of control in HSA. The issue here is not » your PL Robusto but the sheer fact that a unique box of cigars (which they » don't own) can find its way to the public. It raises much bigger questions » as to if they cannot control something as simple as the release of PL » Robusto....how do they intend to control fakes eminating from » Havana....and even their capacity for protection of the Distribution » rights of their license holders when they cannot even control what goes in » and out of their factories and warehouses? » » Your PL Robusto posts have been enlightening, worrying and enthralling ;-) My comments on the photos is that one set looks like natural lighting and the other, flash. Re the control issue, is it possible they do a significant QA run and these find their way to the gray market or via private channels? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colt45 Posted December 1, 2007 Share Posted December 1, 2007 » This is a cigar that has no right to be sold in Havana but there is no » negativity in relation to yourself or your source of supply. Hell I would » have snapped them up in a heartbeat! » So can we not surmise that at best they are stolen, and at worst, if rolled and boxed outside the specified run, that they are not truly "authentic" or legitimate? With all the people you know and are friends with in the industry, would you have truly purchased them? (not a knock, just curious) Pandora's box....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Presidente Posted December 2, 2007 Share Posted December 2, 2007 » So can we not surmise that at best they are stolen, and at worst, if » rolled and boxed outside the » specified run, that they are not truly "authentic" or legitimate? » » With all the people you know and are friends with in the industry, would » you have truly purchased them? » (not a knock, just curious) » » Pandora's box....... What we can summise Colt is that someone within Habanos s.a or TABACUBA decided to remove a few boxes from the run. It could be 5 boxes or 100. None would be numbered so I suspect we are talking here about Factory involvement. I have seen it before. I ring Miguel, manager of ###### factory and ask if they are rolling anything interesting. PL Robusto he tells me..."Can you get me a box or two" I ask? » With all the people you know and are friends with in the industry, would you have truly purchased them? » (not a knock, just curious) Absobloodylutely. I would have couriered them to Dag at PCC with a little note..... Love from Havana...PL Robusto selling well here. Let me know if you want me to pick up some stock for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colt45 Posted December 2, 2007 Share Posted December 2, 2007 » » With all the people you know and are friends with in the industry, » would » you have truly purchased them? » » (not a knock, just curious) » » Absobloodylutely. I would have couriered them to Dag at PCC with a little » note..... » » Love from Havana...PL Robusto selling well here. Let me know if you » want me to pick up some stock for you. That's what I'd expect ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colt45 Posted December 2, 2007 Share Posted December 2, 2007 » What we can summise Colt is that someone within Habanos s.a or TABACUBA » decided to remove a few boxes from the run. It could be 5 boxes or 100. » None would be numbered so I suspect we are talking here about Factory » involvement. Okay, I'm not trying to be inane or draw this out unnecessarily, but let me put forth a couple of scenarios. Using the above criteria, these cigars were rolled on the same table, by the same roller, banded, boxed (unnumbered), and packaged, then set aside. They are sold through unauthorized channels. Are they in fact, legitimate PCC RE Habanos? Second - let's say I've acquired a few of these boxes. I stash them in my humidor and forget about them. Five years down the road, the PL Robusto is hailed as one of the finest Havanas ever rolled. I decide to sell my boxes. They are unnumbered and have a shady provenance. Are they worth anything? Would you buy them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ginseng Posted December 2, 2007 Share Posted December 2, 2007 » Using the above criteria, these cigars were rolled on the same table, by » the same roller, banded, boxed (unnumbered), » and packaged, then set aside. They are sold through unauthorized channels. » Are they in fact, legitimate PCC RE Habanos? They were intended to be but were redirected (stolen) before their identities were consummated by assignment of a number. » Second - let's say I've acquired a few of these boxes. I stash them in my » humidor and forget about them. » Five years down the road, the PL Robusto is hailed as one of the finest » Havanas ever rolled. » I decide to sell my boxes. They are unnumbered and have a shady » provenance. Are they worth anything? Would you buy them? I guess it depends on the person and what that person values. If I were the type to purchase plundered antiquities smuggled out of a third world country, yes, I suppose I would*. Wilkey *I'm not intimating that Don Candido is such a person. I am saying that in the future, should boxes of the provenance you cited come up for sale and I were fully cognizant of this and accepted this, then that person would be as I oversimply characterized. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colt45 Posted December 2, 2007 Share Posted December 2, 2007 » *I'm not intimating that Don Candido is such a person. I am saying that in » the future, should boxes of the provenance you cited come up for sale and I » were fully cognizant of this and accepted this, then that person would be » as I oversimply characterized. Wilkey, I assure you my posts are no indictment of any individual. I normally am not too concerned about the esoteric aspects of smoking cigars - I want to enjoy them. But as Rob already alluded to - something like this has the capacity to cast a dark shadow over the Havana cigar. And I take your response to be no on both accounts:-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ginseng Posted December 2, 2007 Share Posted December 2, 2007 » Wilkey, I assure you my posts are no indictment of any individual. I » normally am not too concerned about the esoteric aspects of smoking » cigars - I want to enjoy them. But as Rob already alluded to - something » like this has the capacity to cast a dark shadow over the Havana cigar. » » And I take your response to be no on both accounts:-) I think we understand each other. We are probably of similar outlook with respect to enjoyment of the cigar. What I think this episode has done is open our eyes and highlight the "flexibility" of the Habanos/Tabacuba system. In answer to your original two questions, I couldn't respond to the first as legitimacy would not be for me to confer. They would be PL's and robustos, for sure. But they'd carry the stigma (or the attraction) of pirated goods. On the second question, I would buy them only to get them back into Rob's hands. Knowing Rob and sharing a mutual respect, I could not, in good conscience, buy them for my own personal use. It might sound hokey and odd, but I love the cigar for who and what that love brings me in contact with. I love that more, perhaps, than the cigar itself. Wilkey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toasterhead Posted November 15, 2008 Author Share Posted November 15, 2008 I am very grateful for Don and Rob's discussion of behind-the-scenes workings of regional releases ("Por Larranaga Regional Release Orders" thread). Information of this kind is priceless and helps us all in our quest for knowledge and enjoyment of our hobby. I couldn't help but notice some subtle differences in the photos of the PL robustos and boxes when comparing the Release thread and Ken's review thread. I realize these are different cameras and different exposures. I wonder if someone would comment on: 1) Is the factory code and date stamp supposed to be upright, upside down or in some specific color? 2) Is there a specific number on the box somewhere as the package insert suggests? The top photo of the pair is from Ken's review; the second is from Don. I am NOT trying to stir up trouble. I offer the questions in the spirit of open, honest communication and the quest for insight into the mysteries of Habanos. Yours truly, Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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