Fake BRC

[El Presidente]

I haven't seen 3 packs of BRC...cardboard packs?

[bikeguy1]

» I haven't seen 3 packs of BRC...cardboard packs?

It was actually a 4-pack..my error..but it was hand-packed in a regular "Habanos" black box like the type I've seen in France or Italy when you buy a few disparate sticks. Anyway, the sealed 3-packs of PSD4 that I got from same vendor are appear real, and smoke like the PSD4 I know & love

This was newer vendor that I thought I'd try, since he sent out a free stick for the asking...placed this (relatively) small order, but won't buy from him again. If he knew what he was doing, shame on him; if he didn't know the difference, DOUBLE shame on him..lol

[bikeguy1]

» Interesting. Email coming your way.

»

» Wilkey

Wilkey...look forward to hearing from you...

[zuma]

I have a question for the experts: Could it be possible that the BRC on the left is actually real yet a very poorly stored sample? There are hints of what seems to be blue mold on the very dry wrapper... the cap also seems to be similar to the genuine thing...

Regardless of whether it is a poorly stored or fake cigar, the supplier should be shunned...

[bikeguy1]

» I have a question for the experts: Could it be possible that the BRC on the

» left is actually real yet a very poorly stored sample? There are hints of

» what seems to be blue mold on the very dry wrapper... the cap also seems

» to be similar to the genuine thing...

»

» Regardless of whether it is a poorly stored or fake cigar, the supplier

» should be shunned...

Hi Zuma,

Thanks for your observations....it may have been stored poorly at the vendor, but I've had them stored under ideal conditions for 2 months, and no improvement. The wrapper is actually quite supple, not as dry as it appears....the two I've smoked both burned well & even (one upon receipt in July, one 6 weeks later), it's just that they had no depth of taste or character. The cap is well-formed, I'll agree..one of the reasons that I wasn't sure at first. But the quality of the tobacco is very poor, and the wrapper is spotted...don't think it's blue mold, just the lighting for my (very amateur) photos. Plus, the bands are different...I know, the Cuban printing industry isn't winning any awards for quality, but the most obvious diffs are the lack of depth/intensity to the orangey/red garland under Simon's bust, and the thickness of the "Bolivar" font..thinner on the suspected fake. This (the label differences) jibes with the counterfeit label page on Cigar Af's site.

So, long response, and I won't be ordering from them anymore!

[zuma]

» Thanks for your observations....it may have been stored poorly at the vendor, but I've had them stored under ideal conditions for 2 months, and no improvement. The wrapper is actually quite supple, not as dry as it appears....the two I've smoked both burned well & even (one upon receipt in July, one 6 weeks later), it's just that they had no depth of taste or character. The cap is well-formed, I'll agree..one of the reasons that I wasn't sure at first. But the quality of the tobacco is very poor, and the wrapper is spotted...don't think it's blue mold, just the lighting for my (very amateur) photos. Plus, the bands are different...I know, the Cuban printing industry isn't winning any awards for quality, but the most obvious diffs are the lack of depth/intensity to the orangey/red garland under Simon's bust, and the thickness of the "Bolivar" font..thinner on the suspected fake. This (the label differences) jibes with the counterfeit label page on Cigar Af's site.

Oh... I was not suggesting that it could be a storage issue at your end!

Now, and given the added info, I do not doubt it being a fake.

Anyhow, thanx for the heads up...

[tigger]

Actually think those are water spots on the wrapper, and not blue mold or camera issues - not necessarily indicative of a counterfeit.

Sorry you got burned bikeguy. :-(

I look forward to Wilkey's analysis, as always...the bands look virtually identical to my untrained eye.

[gyosa]

there is a certain vendor in switzerland ( not Gerard's ) ,that a buddy of mine orders from , and some of his stuff is suspect .....

i am curious as to whwther we may be speaking of the same vendor , as he also offers a free stick .... ?

pm sent ...

-bk

[bikeguy1]

» Actually think those are water spots on the wrapper, and not blue mold or

» camera issues - not necessarily indicative of a counterfeit.

»

» Sorry you got burned bikeguy. :-(

»

» I look forward to Wilkey's analysis, as always...the bands look virtually

» identical to my untrained eye.

Thanks tigger...well, it was a learning experience, and the others in the order are real (15 PSD4 & 3 HdM DC, plus he threw in a couple of Ashton Cabinet as freebies). Anyway, no more business for him (which is why it was a small initial order to begin)..so, don't feel burned so much as "edumacated!!"

The bans were hard to photograph, since my macro function seems a bit weak..they are very close, but read the counterfeit section of CA and their analysis is spot on, esp for the font thickness and the much weaker orange under Simon's chin...every other real Bolivar I have has a more vivid color there.

Bob

[El Presidente]

Thanks for the clarification.

I can say that I have seen/experienced:

Poor bands of BRC.

Poor construction on BRC (though not the norm).

Lack of flavour in BRC (particularly on poor visual examples).

Some vendors have a habit of selling their worst as singles. Nice way of getting rid of poor stock. This is particularly true over the internet as the singles can not be selected by the purchaser and few purchasers will go to the trouble of returning singles. It is poor ethics and poorer business practice for the reason you have stated...you won't go back.

If the vendor has no history of selling suspect cigars I would lean to the view that he offloaded shitty sticks. If he has a history of suspect cigars then you are probably right. Few suspect vendors offload 100% fakes. They mix in fakes with authentic. Fakes cost a lot less and a partial order of fakes increases profitability return.

Vendors with a long history and generally good reputation who have been caught out have ALWAYS purchased the fake sticks outside of the normal Habanos s.a channels. They feign ignorance as their defence but they should know better.

[bikeguy1]

» Thanks for the clarification.

»

» I can say that I have seen/experienced:

»

» Poor bands of BRC.

» Poor construction on BRC (though not the norm).

» Lack of flavour in BRC (particularly on poor visual examples).

»

» Some vendors have a habit of selling their worst as singles. Nice way of

» getting rid of poor stock. This is particularly true over the internet as

» the singles can not be selected by the purchaser and few purchasers will

» go to the trouble of returning singles. It is poor ethics and poorer

» business practice for the reason you have stated...you won't go back.

»

» If the vendor has no history of selling suspect cigars I would lean to the

» view that he offloaded shitty sticks. If he has a history of suspect cigars

» then you are probably right. Few suspect vendors offload 100% fakes. They

» mix in fakes with authentic. Fakes cost a lot less and a partial order of

» fakes increases profitability return.

»

» Vendors with a long history and generally good reputation who have been

» caught out have ALWAYS purchased the fake sticks outside of the

» normal Habanos s.a channels. They feign ignorance as their defence but

» they should know better.

Thanks for the input...this is a brand new vendor who drummed up some biz with a big splash advert in CA (or at least a vendor who is new to this type of sale), so I took a chance. They may just be the runts of the bunch and be real, or be fakes. Compared to a good, verified BRC, though, these are dog rockets (at least the two I've smoked), and I don't have high expectations for the other two. I know CC can be highly variable, and accept that (who amongst us hasn't had an occasional poor quality Monte #2?), but these are outside of the 2 standard deviations I'll allow a Habano!

I'm not out to indict any vendors, but wanted to at least throw this example out there as a member of this forum. I consider myself to have a high tolerance for the vagaries of any handmade product, and it doesn't put me off of the respective enterprise. Anyway, there are many places to procure, and I've crossed this vendor off of my list.

Thanks again for welcoming into this community, and I look forward to learning much more & sharing where I feel it's appropriate...

Warmly,

B

[Mel39]

» Some vendors have a habit of selling their worst as singles. Nice way of

» getting rid of poor stock. This is particularly true over the internet as

» the singles can not be selected by the purchaser and few purchasers will

» go to the trouble of returning singles.

This can also happen in a genuine Habanos Store. Don't know why/how I stumbled on this thread but it reminds me of an experience on Cuba.

I bought a box of R&J Cazadores, sorry can't remember the year, in the Habanos shop at Guadalavaca and they were really bad. Tasted nasty, burned badly often straight down the middle or badly down one side. I asked if I could return them for an exchange as I had tried four sticks. No problem, they charged me for the four I'd taken and refunded the difference. I then saw that the remaining 21 were placed in the humi they sold singles from.

Mel39

[El Presidente]

Good observation Mel.

Habanos stores in Cuba (LCDH and other official retailers) have some pretty shoddy humidifiaction. Often I have seen hygrometers reading at 80% RH +. You can feel it as you walk in and the cigars suffer as a result when smoked immediately. A little time at home solves the problem but it is frustrating.

[Ginseng]

» Often I have seen hygrometers reading at 80% RH +. You can feel it as

» you walk in and the cigars suffer as a result when smoked immediately.

» A little time at home solves the problem but it is frustrating.

Rob,

How long do you think a cigar needs to sit under those conditions to suffer irreparable damage to the smoking characteristics?

Wilkey

[El Presidente]

» Rob,

»

» How long do you think a cigar needs to sit under those conditions to

» suffer irreparable damage to the smoking characteristics?

»

» Wilkey

I have done no testing on the subject but can only relate to personal experience.

It can take 6 monts at 65% RH to get an 80% RH cigar to a smokeable level.

If you are moving a cigar from a 65-75% RH to 80% wrappers will split (feet first) at 80% RH within days. Often in Habanos stores running a high RH you will see either a crack in the foot of the cigar or a slight splaying of the foot. This is not so apparent on young factory code stock as the cigars arrive "wet" from Habanos s.a to the Divan. However I have seen when a Divan receives "older" stock which has not moved/been sold from the Habanos s.a warehouse and has spent some time in the LCDH Divan then the feet are affected. When we purchased a host of 1998 boxes of Connoisseur No 3's in February many of the boxes were showing the tell tale signs.

Draw is obviously also affected but I haven't experienced a loss of flavour when taking an obviously overhumidified cigar and humidifying it properly to 65% over an extended period of time. Most of the damage as far as I can tell is cosmetic.

[sptcigars]

» Thanks for the clarification.

»

» I can say that I have seen/experienced:

»

» Poor bands of BRC.

» Poor construction on BRC (though not the norm).

» Lack of flavour in BRC (particularly on poor visual examples).

»

you know what I was just thinking is how , by bikers pics, how the bands are so damn close!! Just as he was saying about the vivid orange under simon, that was the only thing I could see. Other than that, I was really shocked to see how good the 'fake' band was.

I cant stand guys that counterfeit, they should be shot. Obviously they are not true cigar smokers. To counterfeit means less quality and who could give that to another true blue smoker. Guess it all about the dollar.

[Ginseng]

Thanks Rob!

Wilkey

[bikeguy1]

Hi everyone....just wanted to post a couple of photos of the fake BRCs that may be circulating. I bought a 4-pack (in a Habanos box, not a factory box) a couple of months ago, and it was evident that they were fake right away, not only in appearance, etc pre-light, but in their distinct lack of any notable character when smoked.

In both photos, the FAKE is on the LEFT and the GENUINE on the RIGHT

These came in a shipment that contained some genuine sticks, including PSD4 that I feel are genuine (have smoked enough to feel I know, both home & abroad). So, happy hunting (& happy herfing!), and be careful out there!

[Ginseng]

» Hi everyone....just wanted to post a couple of photos of the fake BRCs that

» may be circulating. I bought a 4-pack (in a Habanos box, not a factory

» box) a couple of months ago, and it was evident that they were fake right

» away, not only in appearance, etc pre-light, but in their distinct lack of

» any notable character when smoked.

»

» In both photos, the FAKE is on the LEFT and the GENUINE on the RIGHT

»

» These came in a shipment that contained some genuine sticks, including

» PSD4 that I feel are genuine (have smoked enough to feel I know, both home

» & abroad). So, happy hunting (& happy herfing!), and be careful out

» there!

»

»

»

»

Interesting. Email coming your way.

Wilkey

[yossie]

» Hi everyone....just wanted to post a couple of photos of the fake BRCs that

» may be circulating. I bought a 4-pack (in a Habanos box, not a factory

» box) a couple of months ago, and it was evident that they were fake right

» away, not only in appearance, etc pre-light, but in their distinct lack of

» any notable character when smoked.

»

» In both photos, the FAKE is on the LEFT and the GENUINE on the RIGHT

»

» These came in a shipment that contained some genuine sticks, including

» PSD4 that I feel are genuine (have smoked enough to feel I know, both home

» & abroad). So, happy hunting (& happy herfing!), and be careful out

» there!

»

»

»

»

I couldn't identify which is fake and genuine.

The only I know is the left cap is triple?

If you don't wanna meet fake, You should buy autholized shops like Lisa's shop.