Primer on Warranty Seal Interpretation

[wdh]

I'm new to the board here and fairly new to the world of cigars....

This forum has been one of the best I've seen for educational tidbits on counterfeits.

I've seen several offhand references to comparing the alphabetic characters on the warranty seal to the date on the bottom of the box as one of the many ways to 'test' a box for authenticity.....

Could someone give just a headline primer on where to find this information or is it essentially tribal knowledge by a few of the seasoned vets on the board? Maybe it's as simple as F = 2003, G = 2004, H - 2005, etc?

I had an interesting experience recently with a box of Sancho Panza Belicosos:

The box code was BYL JUL 05

The first warranty seal started with the letters GS; and,

There was a second warranty seal over the first with the letters XY

Both stamps appear legit under a blacklight but does anyone know why there would be two legit stamps with such different lettering?

Thanks in advance -

Bill

[habanohal]

Sounds like you have a double seal from them doing a quality control check on that box

[wdh]

» Sounds like you have a double seal from them doing a quality control check

» on that box

That makes sense...and would it follow that "XY" on the stamp, which seems to be way out of sequence, would designate some kind of special status, like QC?

[jqmunro]

» » Sounds like you have a double seal from them doing a quality control

» check

» » on that box

»

» That makes sense...and would it follow that "XY" on the stamp, which seems

» to be way out of sequence, would designate some kind of special status,

» like QC?

The double seals are almost always XY or XX indicating that the box had been reopened to check for quality.

[wdh]

» The double seals are almost always XY or XX indicating that the box had

» been reopened to check for quality.

Excellent, thanks. BTW, this little forum has more great information packed into it about the subject of counterfeits than anywhere else on the Net I've found!

[El Presidente]

» » » Sounds like you have a double seal from them doing a quality control

» » check

» » » on that box

» »

» » That makes sense...and would it follow that "XY" on the stamp, which

» seems

» » to be way out of sequence, would designate some kind of special status,

» » like QC?

»

» The double seals are almost always XY or XX indicating that the box had

» been reopened to check for quality.

I can't add anymore to what has already been said except that the XX XY code (checked by Habanos sa quality team at the HSA warehouse) is the only code they will confirm.

[Ginseng]

» I've seen several offhand references to comparing the alphabetic

» characters on the warranty seal to the date on the bottom of the box as

» one of the many ways to 'test' a box for authenticity.....

»

» Could someone give just a headline primer on where to find this

» information or is it essentially tribal knowledge by a few of the seasoned

» vets on the board? Maybe it's as simple as F = 2003, G = 2004, H - 2005,

» etc?

My information is incomplete since it is based on only 70-ish boxes but here is what I know:

2000 range AH (one box only)

2001 range BA-BN

2002 range DC (one box only)

2003 range DI-EQ

2004 range FD-GM

2005 range GI-HT

2006 range HC-JM

How I use this information in the process of authentication is by comparing the two-letter prefix on the warranty seal against the date code on the bottom of the box. A suspect box usually has several suspicious details and one of them might be a 2001 box code mismatched to a "DK" prefix.

Wilkey

[Guibou]

I gathered those information from the net:

There's a number on the seal only since the year 2000 apparently.

Then the sequence is alphabetic and as follow:

2000 : A

2001 : A/B

2002 : B/D

2003 : D/E

2004 : F/G

2005 : G/H

2006 : H/I

The other letters are more random, but indicate the month of the year. Exemple given for some boxes stamped in 2003 :

02 DN

03 DR

05 DN

06 DG DU

07 DB DM

08 DJ

09 EA

10 EQ

11 EK

12 EN

Source: Alejandre/fOruMAC

[link][/link]http://webomac.com/Forum/viewtopic.php?t=1724[link][/link]

[wdh]

» My information is incomplete since it is based on only 70-ish boxes but

» here is what I know:

»

» 2000 range AH (one box only)

» 2001 range BA-BN

» 2002 range DC (one box only)

» 2003 range DI-EQ

» 2004 range FD-GM

» 2005 range GI-HT

» 2006 range HC-JM

»

» How I use this information in the process of authentication is by

» comparing the two-letter prefix on the warranty seal against the date code

» on the bottom of the box. A suspect box usually has several suspicious

» details and one of them might be a 2001 box code mismatched to a "DK"

» prefix.

»

» Wilkey

Thanks Wilkey, this is really interesting. So, if for example if I have a box of Sublimes purchased from a reputable :-) dealer in the Vancouver BC area with a box code of GKI Oct O4 and a Warranty seal that starts wth "GS", does that fit in the 'range for 2004 / early 2005 or would you be getting concerned? Seems close but if it raises alarms I might post a couple of pics...

Also, is it helpful for the work you're doing for a member to ping you with box code / warranty seal information as he gets boxes or do you prefer to only use inputs you can ensure are authentic? There is probably as much art to this as science. Thanks again. Best -

Bill

[jqmunro]

» » My information is incomplete since it is based on only 70-ish boxes but

» » here is what I know:

» »

» » 2000 range AH (one box only)

» » 2001 range BA-BN

» » 2002 range DC (one box only)

» » 2003 range DI-EQ

» » 2004 range FD-GM

» » 2005 range GI-HT

» » 2006 range HC-JM

» »

I have an 02 box with BI on it

[Cam]

the knowledge of some of you guys still astounds me

ill do a review and pictures of a D i smoked yesterday, soon.

Cam -

[smokum]

This is very interesting. I can't help thinking this information is very valuable to counterfeiters though...may be a little too much information ???

[VigorishSLC]

» Thanks Wilkey, this is really interesting. So, if for example if I have a

» box of Sublimes purchased from a reputable :-) dealer in the Vancouver BC

» area with a box code of GKI Oct O4 and a Warranty seal that starts wth

» "GS", does that fit in the 'range for 2004 / early 2005 or would you be

» getting concerned? Seems close but if it raises alarms I might post a

» couple of pics...

I would only be concerned if other significant details did not seem right. By the way, the most important detail in my book is how they taste.

[Ginseng]

Guibou,

Thanks for the link and information. I was not aware of that list.

wdh/Bill,

There is a fair amount of scatter in where the second letter of the prefix falls. In fact, boxes with a prefix that are further down alphabetically can show date codes that are earlier on the calendar. That is to say, one box of FG might be SEP04 while a box of GI might be JUL04. I've only seen enough to know what patterns of inconsistency can arise, I have nowhere near enough information to say what the patterns of consistency should be. For example, not only does the prefix-date code match vary, the relationship also varies by factory. GS for OCT04 would not, on its own merit, concern me. Typically, when counterfeiters miss, they miss by quite a large margin.

I'm only one guy and the way I gather information is by buying boxes (constrained by a modest budget) or by incorporating information that others send me (constrained by knowledge of the information's validity). I do occasionally ask a few people I know to keep me updated with their new box information. I know these people well enough to have discussed sources and thus am reasonably assured of the goodness of the information. If you would like to be added to my list of "snoops" let's talk offline.

jqmunro,

Thanks!

Smokum,

This whole endeavour of analyzing and publishing information on counterfeits research is always on a fine edge. I approach it with a deep understanding of the ramifications that releasing such knowledge could lead to. In my opinion, the benefit to the community of cigar smokers is outweighed by what counterfeiters might do in response. See also my response to VigorishSLC, below.

VigorishSLC,

You're exactly right. Any given box is an ensemble of characteristics and potential clues. While there are a few "absolute" features, that if violated immediately indicate counterfeit status, the vast majority of features of the packaging and cigars cannot be relied upon, in isolation, to be definitive. I totally agree that smoking is always, always, always the final arbiter. Of course this presumes that one is familiar with the cigar in question. So my advice is go out and smoke, smoke, smoke!

Wilkey

[Trevor2118]

»» My information is incomplete since it is based on only 70-ish boxes but here is what I know:

»

» 2000 range AH (one box only)

» 2001 range BA-BN

» 2002 range DC (one box only)

» 2003 range DI-EQ

» 2004 range FD-GM

» 2005 range GI-HT

» 2006 range HC-JM

» Wilkey

Hi Wilkey, referenced this thread from the current thread doing the rounds.

Your 2006 JM box seems odd.

I just checked 19 - 2006 boxes and were all prefixed I.

5 - 2007 boxes were also prefixed I.

Just received 3 - 2008 boxes from Lisa (the LE's) and they were also prefixed I (ID, IK, IT).

I was wondering if the J is a misprint?

[dizedean]

» » I've seen several offhand references to comparing the alphabetic

» » characters on the warranty seal to the date on the bottom of the box as

» » one of the many ways to 'test' a box for authenticity.....

» »

» » Could someone give just a headline primer on where to find this

» » information or is it essentially tribal knowledge by a few of the

» seasoned

» » vets on the board? Maybe it's as simple as F = 2003, G = 2004, H -

» 2005,

» » etc?

»

» My information is incomplete since it is based on only 70-ish boxes but

» here is what I know:

»

» 2000 range AH (one box only)

» 2001 range BA-BN

» 2002 range DC (one box only)

» 2003 range DI-EQ

» 2004 range FD-GM

» 2005 range GI-HT

» 2006 range HC-JM

»

This whole thread is very interesting and useful for those of us who are less enlightened.

It does at times confuse as there seems to be many exceptions to the rules.

I recently received an order from the Czar packed in a box from Jul 02.

The security code is AR.

I do believe this box was part of the PCC 2008 aged release.

The more I think I know the less I really know.

[Trevor2118]

deleted.....contained an error.

[GoSteelers]

All of this info is great and its amazing the time you guys have put into your knowledge, but how about just buying from a reputable dealer?

ie...Cigar Czar

[KB24]

I have a box of PL Lonsdales Regional Release from Germany with a double sticker with the first sticker first 2 letters being IG and the second being IH. These were purchased from an LCDH. Thoughts?

[Trevor2118]

» I have a box of PL Lonsdales Regional Release from Germany with a double sticker with the first sticker first 2 letters being IG and the second being IH. These were purchased from an LCDH. Thoughts?

As a 2006 release the serial number prefix is correct.

[Trevor2118]

Just bumping this thread....answers outstanding:

» » The Serial Number Sequence

» 2000 : A

» 2001 : A or B

» 2002 : B or D

» 2003 : D orE

» 2004 : F or G

» 2005 : G or H

» 2006 : H or I

» 2007 : I

» 2008 : I

Question

The current seal is reportly modified in 1999 but was it used in 1999??

Does anyone have a 1999 dated box with the new type seal ?? If so, can you advise the box date.

Also question to Wilkey regarding the reported J box code.....have you had a chance to check this?

[Ryan]

» The current seal is reportly modified in 1999 but was it used in 1999??

»

» Does anyone have a 1999 dated box with the new type seal ?? If so, can you

» advise the box date.

»

Just saw your question now, I remembered seeing one and I have two that I can find.

H Upmann Coronas PVC LEOO, Oct 99, Seal# AP 061759

ERDM Chiox Supreme REC LROO, Dec 99, Seal# AQ 015608

Both boxes bought in the same place, let me know if you'd like to know where I got them.

Great thread by the way.

[Trevor2118]

» Just saw your question now, I remembered seeing one and I have two that I can find.

»

» H Upmann Coronas PVC LEOO, Oct 99, Seal# AP 061759

» ERDM Chiox Supreme REC LROO, Dec 99, Seal# AQ 015608

»

» Both boxes bought in the same place, let me know if you'd like to know where I got them.

»

» Great thread by the way.

Many thanks Ryan.

[Trevor2118]

» » The Serial Number Sequence appears to be:

»

» 2000 : A

» 2001 : A or B

» 2002 : B or D

» 2003 : D orE

» 2004 : F or G

» 2005 : G or H

» 2006 : H or I

» 2007 : I

» 2008 : I

Question

The current seal is reportly modified in 1999 but was it used in 1999??

Does anyone have a 1999 dated box with the new type seal ?? If so, can you advise the box date.

Trevor