has habanos lost the plot?

[Ken Gargett]

is anyone else starting to think that habanos might be either losing the plot or stretching themselves too thin with all the different one-offs, reservas, limited editions, special humidors and regional releases and so on that are happening? it reminds me, for aussies, of when the cricket is on and tony greig interrupts with yet another must-have special offer, going quickly. there are so many that they become meaningless.

is there a danger of that happening with habanos?

[cvm4]

IMO, The reason they discontinued so many cigars is so they could continue doing the Reservas, RE's, humidors, etc.

[habanohal]

The yhing is that I myself do not find anything special of thewse cigars comeing out. Or shall i say nothing that makes them worthy of the price they go for.

Its not like they taste truely "out of this world" or anything else.

[n2advnture]

» IMO, The reason they discontinued so many cigars is so they could continue

» doing the Reservas, RE's, humidors, etc.

Agree Cliff. Why continue to produce 10 boxes of regular production sticks when you can put the 1/10th the labor into 1 box and charge 5x the price?

I don't like it one bit (as I grab a PSD4 Reserva - LOL!)

Seriously, things have gotten pricey in the past couple of years, even with regular production but I think this is only the beginning.

~M

[smokum]

»I think today..people like the perceived "exclusivity" of anything marked Special Edition. If you look around...there are people lined up to buy the craziest "Limited Run" items. From cigars,cars,video games right down to that damn Tickle me Elmo and Cabbage Patch doll crap !! If marketers warn us the product is very exclusive and will be impossible to get...we rush like sheep to stand in line for i and pay over MSRP for it. Crazy humans. Slick marketing.

[Colt45]

» is anyone else starting to think that habanos might be either losing the

» plot or stretching themselves too thin with ..........

They certainly are losing their luster - they're beginning to remind me of the

NC Gurkha line.

But people must be buying what they're selling. I'm guilty of some REs and LEs.

[brian1]

Ken

I have bought some El's and did buy the recent Estupendos so I am as gulilty as anyone in getting caught up in the hype but I also agree with you. It has been ot of hand for a good couple of years now. I mean does the market really need the Cohiba Maduro line for the latest example.

I guess people are buying up all this stuff or it wouldnt be continuing. It will be interesting to see where all this leads to in the future.

[Ginseng]

» is anyone else starting to think that habanos might be either losing the

» plot or stretching themselves too thin with all the different one-offs,

» reservas, limited editions, special humidors and regional releases and so

» on that are happening?... yet another must-have special offer,

» going quickly. there are so many that they become meaningless.

» is there a danger of that happening with habanos?

Ken,

I don't think they've lost the plot. Rather, it seems as if they've found a new, more profitable story to tell. Perhaps what we are seeing are the outward manifestations of the ascendancy of the Altadis half of the venture. The hard charging, marketing driven philosophy of the Spanish management has delivered results (in terms of profitability). Results breed influence and the proliferation of high-profit margin releases is a sign of that influence.

Wilkey

[broozer]

» is anyone else starting to think that habanos might be either losing the

» plot or stretching themselves too thin with all the different one-offs,

» reservas, limited editions, special humidors and regional releases and so

» on that are happening? it reminds me, for aussies, of when the cricket is

» on and tony greig interrupts with yet another must-have special offer,

» going quickly. there are so many that they become meaningless.

» is there a danger of that happening with habanos?

i've never bought a box of EL's or any or limited edition cigar from cuba. there were a few boxes of EL's that i wanted, but in the end i decided to buy two boxes of something else instead of just one EL box.

as for all of the other LTD ED. cigars, i'll pass. the one and ONLY cigar i would pay top dollar for right now is the FDH mareva. that cigar was without a doubt one of THE top 3 cigars i have ever had in my life.

bruce

[brian1]

Well, I know where you can get them for 1300USD..is that top dollar enough LOL!

» » the one and ONLY cigar

» i would pay top dollar for right now is the FDH mareva. that cigar was

» without a doubt one of THE top 3 cigars i have ever had in my life.

»

» bruce

[Wiley]

I have little use for EL's. There's too many great cigars in their regular lineup without the premium... (!!) well, without the already egregious premium they tack on to everything they make!

[genevapics]

» I have little use for EL's. There's too many great cigars in their regular

» lineup without the premium... (!!) well, without the already egregious

» premium they tack on to everything they make!

Bingo. I'm in the same boat as you. I have the regular production to work my way through. SOme of the EL's interest me, but right now, I will pass.

[El Presidente]

They will release EL's and Regionals as long as the demand is there. Right now....it is there and there bigtime.

They are also increasing there ROI per stick (Return on Investment).

The Cohiba Maduro5 will be a huge seller. Perhaps the most in demand cigar ever released in the history of premium cigars. Having tasted them, no-one will be let down.

They are doing plenty of things wrong....and plenty of things right. On balance, they are in the black side of the ledger.

Ken....I have forwarded your comments to Habanos as I know how much our mates value your opinion. Naturally....I have sent them a copy of this reply as well ;-)

[mgillett]

So can I summise that the pricier Limited Editions may even subsidise or at least allow Habanos SA to maintain a lid on the regular production price points?

[El Presidente]

» So can I summise that the pricier Limited Editions may even subsidise or at

» least allow Habanos SA to maintain a lid on the regular production price

» points?

I don't believe there is any philanthropic bent to their LE push

There will continue to be a 5% annual average price rise for the forseeable future across all regular line cigars.

[winelover]

» » So can I summise that the pricier Limited Editions may even subsidise or

» at

» » least allow Habanos SA to maintain a lid on the regular production

» price

» » points?

»

» I don't believe there is any philanthropic bent to their LE push

»

» There will continue to be a 5% annual average price rise for the

» forseeable future across all regular line cigars.

For as long as the world economy continues to grow.

[greenpimp]

It is very difficult to raise prices drastically on a product someone has been buying for years, even decades. 5% a year is about right, it seems to me.

But you can charge whatever the hell you want for a NEW product or line. The pricing on the new SCDLH cigars was very indicative of where Habanos is going, IMO. Drastically higher pricing on all new vitolas, marcas, LE's, etc. Makes all the others look "affordable" while making everything new in the "luxury" realm, what that they really want to charge for everything.

They will eventually find out where that point is, when charging more per cigar while selling less overall, creates less revenue. They weren't there last year, but will be soon I think. They'll just keep pushing until they have to ratchet it back.

Bidniz. Big bidniz.

[Ken Gargett]

» They will release EL's and Regionals as long as the demand is there. Right

» now....it is there and there bigtime.

»

» They are also increasing there ROI per stick (Return on Investment).

»

» The Cohiba Maduro5 will be a huge seller. Perhaps the most in demand cigar

» ever released in the history of premium cigars. Having tasted them, no-one

» will be let down.

i don't mean things like maduro5 - that, as i understand it, is a new line that will continue.

also, i do understand the more money aspect but the danger, for the long trm, is confusion and just too many of them - we have seen it with wine when everyone little vineyard was releasing a reserve or this or that and it has come back to bite many of them big time.

i just wonder if they are losing a little focus - your comments re mag 46s and plenty of others make me a little concerned.

that said, i am partly guilty as i have been a big supporter of the LE's and have bought quite a few over the years. mind you, when they kicked off, they were terrific value. some still are (witness the cohiba 06 pyramides) while other remain crap (eg - monte 'C's).

[DocRKS]

Ken,

Taking your point one step further - I am almost afraid to conjecture as to what will happen to the issue of Quality in Habana made cigars when the eventuality of the US Market 'LEGALLY" opening up is realized. The initial demand and the very understandable desire by the powers to be to fulfill that demand, I am afraid, will be a flooding into the marketplace of some very suspect Quality cigars with the genuine Habana imprint.

If my fears are realized - we'll be looking at some of the '06s we now find a little disapointing - like the MAG 46 - as " the good old days".

[Colt45]

Perhaps slightly off topic, and previously touched upon - what if down the road,

people other than Habanos S.A. are able to produce Cuban cigars?

Using Padron for example. What if Padron were able to grow and process their

own tobacco, and roll their own cigars in Cuba, totally independent from Habanos?

Possibly a better Havana? Could it happen?

[HeavySmoke]

»

» For as long as the world economy continues to grow.

Agreed. Makes me wonder what will happen when inflation rears its ugly head in the global markets starting 2008 and beyond. The growth cycle internationally has been good for a few years but indicators point to inflationary pressure in the near future.