Local "afficionado" calls my Siglo IV a fake

[smokum]

A good friend asked me to tag along on his Sunday morning smoke ritual to a local, very old cigar shop. I walk in and buy a decent 2 cigar holder case after looking at some of the hi line Du Pont solid gold holders the guy was showing me. I paid my 20 bucks for the 8 dollar case and asked him if it would be OK if I smoked my own cigar that I brought with. He said it would hurt his feelings but that it would be OK. I know its best to buy a stick to smoke rather than bring your own but I had a Siglo IV from my humi. He asked me what I was smoking so I told him and he took a look at it and quickly said "nice fake !". I fired back quickly with a "nice try !" as I know this is no fake havana. He proceeded to tell me it had to be a fake because the overlap of the band was in the wrong place. He explained that each Cohiba had its own specific band and was put on to exacting placement standards. He then shows me a book that he called the "bible" and turns to the Cohiba page and lays the cigar down on the Sig IV pictured and says they at least got the size right !!!! Now my havanas come from a very reliable source and are unquestionable so I lit it correctly...smelled it...drew some thru my nose and told the guy he needed to find a different book to look at. I sat down with my bud and thouroughly enjoyed a young, AEP ENE 06 Siglo IV...do you folks run into these "experts" ? The book he looked at was a large hardcover book printed in 02 ...I've seen it talked about here but can't remember the name...oriental fellow I believe.

[cls515]

» A good friend asked me to tag along on his Sunday morning smoke ritual to a

» local, very old cigar shop. I walk in and buy a decent 2 cigar holder case

» after looking at some of the hi line Du Pont solid gold holders the guy

» was showing me. I paid my 20 bucks for the 8 dollar case and asked him if

» it would be OK if I smoked my own cigar that I brought with. He said it

» would hurt his feelings but that it would be OK. I know its best to buy a

» stick to smoke rather than bring your own but I had a Siglo IV from my

» humi. He asked me what I was smoking so I told him and he took a look at

» it and quickly said "nice fake !". I fired back quickly with a "nice try

» !" as I know this is no fake havana. He proceeded to tell me it had to be

» a fake because the overlap of the band was in the wrong place. He

» explained that each Cohiba had its own specific band and was put on to

» exacting placement standards. He then shows me a book that he called the

» "bible" and turns to the Cohiba page and lays the cigar down on the Sig

» IV pictured and says they at least got the size right !!!! Now my havanas

» come from a very reliable source and are unquestionable so I lit it

» correctly...smelled it...drew some thru my nose and told the guy he needed

» to find a different book to look at. I sat down with my bud and thouroughly

» enjoyed a young, AEP ENE 06 Siglo IV...do you folks run into these

» "experts" ? The book he looked at was a large hardcover book printed in 02

» ...I've seen it talked about here but can't remember the name...oriental

» fellow I believe.

Gotta love those "afficionado" guys. Glad you enjoyed it. I hate when I walk into a humidor and the guy trys to sell me everything and a dog. All I want is a cheap Fuente, geez. One time there were some new Gran Habano cigars that I wanted to try, so when I get to the register the guy says, "Oh, so you found those Cubans?"

[Ginseng]

» A good friend asked me to tag along on his Sunday morning smoke ritual to a

» local, very old cigar shop. I walk in and buy a decent 2 cigar holder case

» after looking at some of the hi line Du Pont solid gold holders the guy

» was showing me. I paid my 20 bucks for the 8 dollar case and asked him if

» it would be OK if I smoked my own cigar that I brought with. He said it

» would hurt his feelings but that it would be OK. I know its best to buy a

» stick to smoke rather than bring your own but I had a Siglo IV from my

» humi. He asked me what I was smoking so I told him and he took a look at

» it and quickly said "nice fake !". I fired back quickly with a "nice try

» !" as I know this is no fake havana. He proceeded to tell me it had to be

» a fake because the overlap of the band was in the wrong place. He

» explained that each Cohiba had its own specific band and was put on to

» exacting placement standards. He then shows me a book that he called the

» "bible" and turns to the Cohiba page and lays the cigar down on the Sig

» IV pictured and says they at least got the size right !!!! Now my havanas

» come from a very reliable source and are unquestionable so I lit it

» correctly...smelled it...drew some thru my nose and told the guy he needed

» to find a different book to look at. I sat down with my bud and thouroughly

» enjoyed a young, AEP ENE 06 Siglo IV...do you folks run into these

» "experts" ? The book he looked at was a large hardcover book printed in 02

» ...I've seen it talked about here but can't remember the name...oriental

» fellow I believe.

Well, it certainly sounds like it might have been "The Encyclopedia of Post Revolution Havana Cigars" by a gentleman whose pen name is "Min Ron Nee."

What a misuse of the book. I don't know where he heard that each model has its own band. This makes no sense at all. There's the big band and the small one that goes on the Panetelas and Exquisitos. I'm afraid he's off base as to what counts as definitive indicators of counterfeit-ness.

Wilkey

[Professor Twain]

What a pain.

The book that this guy had must have been Min Ron Nee's "Illustrated Encyclopedia of Post-Revolution Havana Cigars". This book was published in January 2003, with a few minor corrections, but no substantial revisions, made in July 2005. So all of the cigars shown in that book are from 2002 and before. It is a great book but is a bit out of date.

What this ass clown failed to recognize is that Cohiba changed its bands (which used to have black print as shown in the book) to a band with gold print. There are some other changes as well. Thus your 2004 has a different band than what is shown in MRN.

Glad that you enjoyed your cigar.

[smokum]

» Glad that you enjoyed your cigar.

Indeed I did...and that was the book..Min Ron Lee...he pulled it out like he was pulling out Holy Water ! I told him the cigar in the picture didn't even have an embossed band !! Mattered not. The Sig IV was very young...very tasty but not all that rich...lots of toasted tobacco and plenty of that good Cuban flavor...about a 1/2 inch in it started to develp a bit...but these need a little time in the humi...I just had to try one . Next Sunday I will bring in something different for him to comment on...maybe a Trini ! I don't want to be too rude to the guy....I really should buy a stick from the place but hell I bought a 20 dollar holder...my bud bought a half dozen good Dominicans. This guy just works there so I'll just smoke my fakers and enjoy the comraderie with the other die-hards !

[ccsmoker]

Yeah you got to feel sad for these poor bastards,they wish they had a clue.In a store that sells nc cigars that book is worhtless.Plus most stores in the states 40% know what they are talking about and 60% are just should not be in a smokeshop.

[Professor Twain]

Here's a suggestion, so that you don't have to buy stuff you don't want, it's what I have started to do when I go to cigar shops to enjoy a smoke, but don't want to smoke their cigars. Buy one or two noncubans each time you go into this (or other) shop, save them up, and ship them to soldiers in Iraq when you have 20 or 30. There is a previous thread about how to get solders' addresses here on FOH.

[shrink]

I don't blame you for being indignant. I'd just tell the bastard that I knew it was authentic, because I got it in Miami from a guy whose brother knew someone in Havana who works in the factory.

So there. Na na na na na na.

[Trevor2118]

Andre

Is published by Habanos SA. I got mine in London, UK where they are still for sale.

[BigSlick]

Habanos SA publication. They were published for their distributors from what I have been told. I am assuming it was published sometime between 03-04. Cohibas have the new band in the book, no Edmundos in the line up, only the Fundidore under Trini and no Belicoso under RA. Not sure the date stamps of all of these events. I have heard that Cigarmony has these available as a US reprint. N2 would know more about that.

[Well Armed]

You should tell this guy nothing because you are not patronizing his store anymore. He sounds like a real dickwad and I would have told him to lick my balls. He's talking **** to you and you just bought something from him. What a dickhead. He doesn't even know WTF he is talking about lol.

[smokum]

» You should tell this guy nothing because you are not patronizing his store

» anymore.

He was actually kind of entertaining !! We all had a good laugh. He is a minimum wage mope ! In fact I can't wait til next Sunday to show him another fake !!! This time I'm going to take another members suggestion and buy a 2 dollar cigar and sit down, relax with my friends....smoke my fake and see if he can pull out that Holy water book of his and let me read thru it !! Maybe he will think he's helping me get educated !

[jgros001]

» Here's a suggestion, so that you don't have to buy stuff you don't want,

» it's what I have started to do when I go to cigar shops to enjoy a smoke,

» but don't want to smoke their cigars. Buy one or two noncubans each time

» you go into this (or other) shop, save them up, and ship them to soldiers

» in Iraq when you have 20 or 30. There is a previous thread about how to

» get solders' addresses here on FOH.

Exactly what I do. I did for a time buy Tatuajes because I enjoyed them at certain times but they stopped carrying them because apparently no one has taste buds over there and they weren't selling except for my occasional single.

I gotta say you kept your cool better than I in that situation. Accusing someone of fakes is a very touchy subject and you should be damn sure you know what you are talking about before making such a comment.

[Tampa1257]

You just can not argue with some of these self imposed "Experts", If you really what to set him in a fit, take a 06 Partagas Serie du Connaisseur No.1 in with you, (The 06's have Bands on them, where in Min Ron Nee, the photo does not have a band on it at all, that because they didn't start placing bands on them until 06) That or maybe a Juan Lopez No.1 or No.2, those did not start having bands placed on them until late 06.

Thats why I don't even tell others what I'm smoking unless they have a clue. Fortunately, the local shop where I normally go and enjoy a smoke or to with my friends the main tobacconists know that I know my cigars and know that if I say what I am smoking, they know it is the real deal. I have often times given a nice Cuban to them as a TIP instead of money. They have smoked enough of my cigars to know that if I give them something it is off the hook and they really appreciate it. At the same time, I have been able to talk cigars with them to the point that they can recognize a fake when some guy who has a friend of a friend from Miami that has a sister who's cousin can get boxes of glass top Cohiba Espléndidos for $150 and they are really good to have under the counter for his special customers is a FAKE and run like hell!

[Trevor2118]

» Habanos SA publication. They were published for their distributors from what I have been told. I am assuming it was published sometime between 03-04.

They are dated April 2003 Issue 1.

[Wiley]

I'm sorry MRN's book got into this mix. It's an awesome book which I recommend very highly. You just need to realize it's not up-to-date.

[harwellplant]

» I'm sorry MRN's book got into this mix. It's an awesome book which I

» recommend very highly. You just need to realize it's not up-to-date.

like other reference texts, it bears the likelihood that someone will take the information contained therein for gospel truth, without deference to change or human error (there is at least one site which keeps a continuing tab on errors and ommissions found in the text). reading or, in cases i have found similar to that text, simply possessing a text does not make one the definitive answer on an issue. rather, in many cases the lack of understanding of the book's entire content and the context in which the book must be received makes one look like a pompous ass when pontificating on its contents.

[tigger]

» I'm sorry MRN's book got into this mix. It's an awesome book which I

» recommend very highly. You just need to realize it's not up-to-date.

Well put. I finally bought a copy about a month ago, and it's a great resource.

[smokum]

» » I'm sorry MRN's book got into this mix.

I agree. It wasn't the book...it was the guy looking at it !!! WHERE can I get this book ????

[tigger]

smokum- It might be worth waiting, as I've heard a "true" (not just fixing typos, etc) 2nd Edition is on the horizon.

If you're impatient, as I was, I believe CI (Cigars International) has them for sale for $125.

[strayvector]

» » » I'm sorry MRN's book got into this mix.

»

» I agree. It wasn't the book...it was the guy looking at it !!! WHERE can

» I get this book ????

Check with el presidente or Lisa. They had some copies last year.

[Mel]

I have handled it this way when cigars are questioned. I had a nice gentleman at the local shop ask me if I thought they were legit. I gave him one to smoke and asked him to give his opinion but I had confidence that they were the real deal. I bought them from Rob so I hope they were not fakes. I do not argue about my cigars or anothers. If pressed I will give my opinion. Take an extra with you and offer the bloke a smoke. Sit down and burn one with him. I give cigars away at the local shop to employees and the owner and they never seem to have a problem with me smoking my own.

Oh BTW you said he was "entertaining" if someone is offensive they I just never speak again or patronize the place. Attitide is everything.

[Van55]

» » » I'm sorry MRN's book got into this mix.

»

» I agree. It wasn't the book...it was the guy looking at it !!! WHERE can

» I get this book ????

Contact [email protected]

I read somewhere that Cigars International is selling them as well.

[smokum]

»

» Oh BTW you said he was "entertaining" if someone is offensive they I just

» never speak again or patronize the place. Attitide is everything.

Thanks for the book leads....Mel , I can't blame the establishment because of a dopey counter worker !!! There is always one in the crowd !

[smokum]

Well I went back and took the advise of Mel...handed this fellow a beautiful Siglo and told him that since he insulted me last week and called my havanas fake...he should try one and see for himself. He looked dumbfounded...looked the cigar over, took a good whiff of it and procalimed it smelled awsum. I guess the old addage "you attract more bees with honey" worked out today. Smoked a fine young San Cristobal La Punta and he let me check out his "Holy Grai" Min Ron Lee book !!! I need one of these books.