Consistency in same box?

[Ken Gargett]

We all know how the use of corks can mean that bottles of wine coming from the same carton can vary considerably, especially with time, but how many of us see similar variation from time to time in boxes of cigars. Obviously with the method of production and the way the Cubans colour-code the things for consistent colour, then it is understandable (far more so than why we still have to tolerate it in wine). Curious to see what others think (I guess one good example would be that first mystery cigar where the reviews looked like they were in two camps and you wonder how it could have been from the same box - or cabinet).

All this was prompted by the Monte Edmundos. Right from day one, one of the things I have really liked about this cigar was the consistency, partly the consistency right through the cigar but also because I found them almost identical from stick to stick. Just recently, I have given them a real nudge and worked my way through quite a few. My thoughts on the consistency of these was pretty much spot-on until two recently. One was just superb, a real step-up in quality that towered above ever other Edmundo I have tried (not that I don’t think that they are pretty good to begin with). If this was the first or only time you tried an Edmundo then you would have walked away thinking that they must surely be about as good as it gets. The second, a week or so later (and there had been a few in between), was harsh, green, acrid, grubby. Again, if your first time, you probably wouldn’t go near them ever again. I accept that circumstances and surroundings play a role but with these, the great one was in a dingy little bar that needed a serious clean; the crap one was out on a boat in the Marlborough Sounds after a lunch of Cloudy Bay wines and the freshest green-lipped mussels ever eaten (I had to get that in somewhere) - if it was the other way, I might have dismissed the whole thing.

Any other similar experiences?

[shrink]

ken gargett wrote "»Any other similar experiences?"

Sure, lots of them. I am thinking of Montecristo No. 2's. Most are pretty good, some are uninspiring, and some.... well, some are just plain magnificent. Had one out of recent box DIC04 that was simply divine.

[ilikecigars]

the one and only thing i find consistent in this world is that nothing is ever consistent...i dont think it can be, at least not absolutely.

ive bought cases of wine and as you said none age consistently due to variables...i guess its the fact that it takes many grapes so all arent the same...also the corks do shrink up and some end up below the shoulder..

cigars i feel are the same as it takes so many plants/leaf to roll a box..cant expect consistency there and even the different rollrs used to make a single box....the edmundos i found too be terrible when they first came out a big dissapointment...very loose and underfilled and just did nothing for me...then whala after a few months rest i am finding them to blosom into a nice smoke but oh' the roll is hit and miss ,,some right on and many loose and under filled..time wont heal that, not sure if it was the roller or there getting cheap on us...or i got a crumby box.

i find alot of recent production to be plauged by the underfilled loose roll.

on that note i had a steak the other day at my favorite resturaunt and while always good in the past it sucked...to top it off the bloody marys where off as well..so much for consistent...guess ill see if the wife is consistently bad in bed again tonight...lol

[Ken Gargett]

don't blame the grapes - other than for a few exceptions, the wine that goes in a bottle will be all the same. blame the bits of dead tree they shove in the opening. there's your culprit. the exceptions are for producers doing huge runs - eg lindy's bin 65 charders - and they are simply too big to do at once so might be bottled over a period of time. the other exception is quite rare these days but in the old days, quite a few producers would bottle direct from barrel, so there would be quite a bit of variation. it has been suggested that variation in the drc 1983's is because of that but i thought that they had dropped the practice before that. probably more a burgundy thing than for others.

[Mel]

These things are made of leaves are they not? Besides there might be a little bug guts or crap mixed in from time to time.

I had one Sig III that was a world above all the others in the box.

Keeps the whole thing exciting doesn't it?

[Ken Gargett]

agree that the uncertainty can add an interest, but i like it more when they smoke above themselves and not underperform. agree with a lot of the thoughts on this but my view as to the main reason for lack of consistency is that they bring in all of the cigars made by the rollers allocated that particular stick for the day and then sort them by colour so if one bloke is a superior roller, his cigars are likely to be spread throughout. ditto those that gave the rum a hammering the night before.

[Well Armed]

I agree completely. It would be interesting if they sold boxes rolled all by one person. I think it may suck because if the roller sucks you get a whole box of duds. The current method tends to go with the law of averages. I don't see a good alternative.

[Colt45]

Aren't rollers given the same tobacco in the same ratios? I can understand differences in quality between rollers, but shouldn't the flavor be similar, if we discount an overly tight or loose roll?

There's not much we can do about a corked wine, but environment in transport,

warehousing, and cellaring can play a part in how wines from the same lot/ case

perform. Though a cooked wine usually doesn't bode well for the rest of the case.

While this may not really translate to cigars from the same box, I would think it could be possible.

[Ken Gargett]

yes, agree that cellaring and transport etc of wine can have a major impact though it would be rare for that to make a difference within the one case. would mean that the case i buy and store poorly doesn't match the one you store well.

i suspect that there are major differences in the standard of the rollers, just as with winemakers. anyone who has ever had a chance to try one of the cigars rolled by someone like our mate hamlet can vouch for how good they can be and i doubt that 'his' tobacco and that of other rollers is that different.

to persist with the wine analogy, it would be like giving two different winemakers grapes from the same vineyard - the end result will often be very different wines. give two rollers similar tobacco leaves and again, different results (i accept that the winemaker has much more scope for difference by using oak or not, and all sorts of other techniques).

i guess some rollers have the gift and others don't. i have suggested that they offer special releases from certain top rollers (bit like a winemaker's reserve bottling) but they seemed to think i was crazy. might try that again as i think it has merit.

[Colt45]

The difference I see there is that winemakers are starting with raw material, and what they do from there has a huge impact on the final product. Cigar rollers start with material that is already processed, and theoretically, should have less of an impact

on at least the flavor, if not the quality of the final product.

I basically agree with you though - just making conversation on a slow night.

[Ken Gargett]

yes, think we are on the same hymn sheet. that was what i was trying to suggest, however clumsily, with the "i accept that the winemaker has much more scope for difference by using oak or not, and all sorts of other techniques".

in theory, the cigars should be identical but because of different skill levels of rollers, they vary. sometimes not to any extent that i can perceive but sometimes a little more.

[Mel]

Could a master roller have consistency in every box? Can one leaf on a plant taste differenly than another. Are all the leaf in a bale the same? With all that goes into cigar production and all the variables we are lucky to have it as good as we do.

[PigFish]

I don’t drink wine so I can’t say that I have much knowledge on the subject. I would have to think that wine made in larger quantities and being somewhat homogenous would be far more consistent than cigars. I am actually amazed that cigars, even out of the same box, have any consistency at all.

Each cigar is a totally different animal, it has to be as cigar leaves are not large enough to fashion a whole box from just a few leaves. Each one is its own little one time experiment… never to be recreated again. It is a paradox, that is for sure.

[Mel]

. I am

» actually amazed that cigars, even out of the same box, have any

» consistency at all.

»

» Each cigar is a totally different animal, it has to be as cigar leaves are

» not large enough to fashion a whole box from just a few leaves. Each one is

» its own little one time experiment… never to be recreated again. It is a

» paradox, that is for sure.

Yeh PigFish, That is the point I was trying to make. In nature there are few things,if any, that are exactly alike.

[rumrogue]

Maybe Habonos SA need to employ tasters to check the flavour of each stick prior to packing.

I'm a volunteer for that job. :-)

What's the alternative?

Rules along the lines that are applied to bananas sold in the EU ?

You get bloody good looking bananas but they taste like..........nothing, certainly not like a banana.

Strange I know, but I enjoy the uncertainty of not knowing what is going to happen when you set fire to the little bugger. :-)