PRESSURE BUILDS TO EXEMPT CIGARS FROM PROPOSED U.K. GENERATIONAL SMOKING BAN

[El Presidente]

 

PRESSURE BUILDS TO EXEMPT CIGARS FROM PROPOSED U.K. GENERATIONAL SMOKING BAN

NOVEMBER 21, 2023 CHARLIE MINATO INTERNATIONAL,  REGULATIONS

https://halfwheel.com/report-pressure-builds-to-exempt-cigars-from-u-k-proposed-generational-smoking-ban/431832/

[MagicalBikeRide]

It’s still impossible for me to get my head around how this would ever work - regardless of whether or not cigars are included. 

[BrightonCorgi]

Would not want to bet on whether this will pass or not.

[MagicalBikeRide]

Nor what actually plays out should it pass 

[JohnS]

Having visited the UK briefly this year, I can attest how important and what a difference the current exemption to smoking laws makes on cigar smoking in the premises of established vendors. I think our UK members can and will 'chime in' with their valued opinion on this matter, however, I would think the precedent that I've alluded to, that is, the permittance of smoking indoors in cigar shops, on the proviso of a willingness to 'try and buy' on behalf of the consumer, will have a potential influence on this course of action. At the very least, I would hope so!

[Fireball]

22 minutes ago, MagicalBikeRide said:

It’s still impossible for me to get my head around how this would ever work - regardless of whether or not cigars are included. 

It seems like tobacco would all just get sold on the black market.  

[MagicalBikeRide]

13 minutes ago, JohnS said:

Having visited the UK briefly this year, I can attest how important and what a difference the current exemption to smoking laws makes on cigar smoking in the premises of established vendors. I think our UK members can and will 'chime in' with their valued opinion on this matter, however, I would think the precedent that I've alluded to, that is, the permittance of smoking indoors in cigar shops, on the proviso of a willingness to 'try and buy' on behalf of the consumer, will have a potential influence on this course of action. At the very least, I would hope so!

Yes - I’d be hopeful that cigars will avoid this one way or another. Cigars retained the sampling indoors but also avoided plain packaging, signage, branding, etc - none of which we have across the water in Ireland. Cigar shops are almost unviable here but seem to be booming in the UK. 

[ha_banos]

Certainly agree that over the recent times we have a healthy number of new cigar shops and terraces available. Mostly in London centre and other city centres of course. Although there's a number of retailers online that seem to be doing ok too. These almost worry me less than perhaps a ban on smoking in say pub gardens or outside cafes. Outside of centres these are my main stay.

I've chimed in on the response the government is collecting online. As I know others have. No idea if this holds any weight at all.

The number of smaller shops locally that deal in black market cigarettes is rife. They'll continue and prosper come any ban.

A local micro pub has on its license stipulated by the local council that they must be a non smoking pub. This I'm sure will grow. Which keeps me away. I've seen some people smoking cigarettes however...

The legal age to buy tobacco, assuming you can afford it, is 18. Leave the people alone FFS. 

Are they in the pockets of the vape companies?

[Jamie117]

11 hours ago, MagicalBikeRide said:

It’s still impossible for me to get my head around how this would ever work - regardless of whether or not cigars are included. 

It's already instituted here in NZ, 2004 being the cutoff I believe. So if I've got that right it's already cutting off 18 and 19 year olds. It will happen, best they can hope for is the UK does the smart thing and exempts cigars.

 

Edit: the cutoff is 2009 so not cutting in yet. Been in place for almost a year

[Meklown]

14 hours ago, Fireball said:

It seems like tobacco would all just get sold on the black market.  

I don't understand how they seem to have learned nothing from prohibition 100 years ago

[MrBirdman]

26 minutes ago, Meklown said:

I don't understand how they seem to have learned nothing from prohibition 100 years ago

I think the assumption is that tobacco isn’t as popular as alcohol. Alcohol is deeply rooted in Western culture. That’s why Churchill called prohibition an affront to the whole history of man. 

This is more like the war on drugs - which hasn’t exactly succeeded either!

[MagicalBikeRide]

Or in a current day UK reference, the absolute widespread use of recreational drugs 

[MrBirdman]

I guess this is the legacy of cigarette manufacturers, who committed the greatest collective act of corporate malfeasance in history and thus made it easy to vilify all tobacco. Even cigars, whose public health impact is orders of magnitude lower than cigarettes (or alcohol, for that matter).

I don't know enough about UK politics to put odds on cigars getting an exemption. It's hard to imagine St. James's without Davidoff and Fox. Shame Simon Chase is no longer with us - I know he played a pivotal role in carving out the sampling lounge exemption that @JohnS mentioned. Wondering whether @Ryan has any insight into where this might head...

[ha_banos]

1 minute ago, MrBirdman said:

I guess this is the legacy of cigarette manufacturers, who committed the greatest collective act of corporate malfeasance in history and thus made it easy to vilify all tobacco. Even cigars, whose public health impact is orders of magnitude lower than cigarettes (or alcohol, for that matter).

I don't know enough about UK politics to put odds on cigars getting an exemption. It's hard to imagine St. James' without Davidoff and Fox. Shame Simon Chase is no longer with us - I know he played a pivotal role in carving out the sampling lounge exemption from the smoking ban. 

 A man with his contacts as well as his drive is needed!

You will have to start imagining either way. The Davidoff lease is up soon.

[MrBirdman]

2 minutes ago, ha_banos said:

You will have to start imagining either way. The Davidoff lease is up soon.

True, nothing lasts forever. Have they confirmed they're relocating? 

[BrightonCorgi]

Tobacco is a dead man walking.  Rising prices to what they are now only speeds this up. 

Habanos should've raised production and kept or lowered prices to ensure their consumer base is maintained or increased.  Dwindling consumer base makes these laws easier to implement.

[MrBirdman]

33 minutes ago, BrightonCorgi said:

Dwindling consumer base makes these laws easier to implement.

No question. Habanos slowly turning cigars into the exclusive preserve of the rich actually reduces the public health impact, but also greatly reduces the number of people who would care about a ban. 

Habanos has set themselves on a road of short-term gain at the risk of possible long-term ruin. I expect the new owners are hoping to cash out long before any chickens come home to roost.

[ha_banos]

21 minutes ago, MrBirdman said:

True, nothing lasts forever. Have they confirmed they're relocating? 

Not that I know of, in that its not written down anywhere public. Just been talking about this for a while with some who would know more than I.

[Fireball]

22 hours ago, MrBirdman said:

Habanos has set themselves on a road of short-term gain at the risk of possible long-term ruin. I expect the new owners are hoping to cash out long before any chickens come home to roost.

I wonder how much Habanos is aware or care about the aggressively changing Tobacco policies around the world. 

[BrightonCorgi]

36 minutes ago, Fireball said:

I wonder how much Habanos is aware or care about the aggressively changing Tobacco policies around the world. 

They are among 100% aware and have been making moves to mitigate the inevitable.  I wonder how much they and their parent company spend on lobbying?  It's tough as it's a global battle. 

Beyond lobbying it had been towards opening new markets and now marketing cigars similar to fashion instead of tobacco. 

Marketing as fashion is one of only a few avenues left to expand their consumer space.  Advertising "tobacco" is quite regulated and mostly prohibited.