Flavour & Narrative...

[MoeFOH]

I just posted in the weekend podcast thread about an interesting podcast - The Infinite Monkey Cage - and as a separate thread I wanted to get folks thoughts on an intriguing point that surfaced late in the particular episode I was listening to: why does wine taste so good?

Tim Minchin's point was that if a musician was handed a million dollar instrument (Stradivarius, for example) then they most likely play and perceive the instrument differently knowing what they're holding, the storied history and so on, and so you need to double blind them (sight and smell - due to the smell of the vintage wood apparently) and then you may hand them just a very fine new instrument and they won't be able to tell the difference and nor will the audience. But his follow-up is that you should never try and divorce yourself from such narrative as that is every bit a part of the sensory experience...

So in relation to cigars primarily, of course, but just in general I wanted to know if folks take that sort of thinking into their flavour/tasting experiences? I.e. Do you think about the heritage, the bones of the cigar? Its leaf origin and growth? Its history? Its brand reputation? Your previous experiences with the particular cigar? Etc and so on...

Should we or shouldn't we include narrative when tasting/profiling a cigar ... and why/why not? 

Would love to hear your thoughts and insights. 

Here's the podcast link if you're interested or confused about what I'm rambling on with... 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00snr0w/episodes/downloads

[MoeFOH]

This clip from Sideways (great movie!) elucidates the point a little... also love the way Miles (Paul Giamatti's character) just totally shits the bed with the flood gates wide open! 🤦‍♂️

 

[JohnS]

Should we or shouldn't we include narrative when tasting/profiling a cigar ... and why/why not?

The short answer is yes, but only if it has relevancy. For example, if you are smoking a Cohiba Siglo VI and it is of the initial 2003 vintage run, it's important to include that information because that year is considered the best release for that cigar. Similarly, if you are smoking a POU 13 box code Romeo y Julieta Exhibicion No.4 or the initial run of 2017/18 Quai d'Orsay Nos. 50 and 54, this information should be included because these codes/years are considered better than others.

In regards to our workings here on FoH, the most relevant information has concerned what Habanos cigars were smoking well in regards to their box codes. In the last few years, this hasn't been as crucial or distinctive as in the past because, in general, the production quality post-2019 has been very good.

Sometimes though, a good cigar is a good cigar and vice versa and it just needs to be called so. The narrative around it in this circumstance becomes immaterial.

[Shrimpchips]

If you’re describing anything using sensory inputs, then narrative information makes perfect sense to set the stage for what is inevitably going to be guided by expectation biases.  A product like a cigar that encompasses so much history, so many hands, so much aging and development needs to be framed to experience it with the full appreciation for how it got to you.  Without the narrative, it’s just a bundle of dried leaves and a great flavor profile.  For me, with the background narrative you can appreciate not just the momentary sensory experience, but all the intangibles that go into making that moment.

[El Presidente]

If by myself or with a close cigar loving mate and we are sharing something "storied" then of course it becomes part (a big part) of the shared experience. 

When working/tasting/assessing a cigar however, I try to make it 100% about the cigar itself in that minute/on that day. I would prefer not to know (at least initially) if it was from the magical 03 vintage or from a special batch of aged Cuban tobacco located in Tampa in 2017.  

The cigar may be the steak but the story/narrative is often the sizzle.

[Capn_Jackson]

I appreciate Tim Minchin bringing musical instruments into the conversation. Once, in grad school, I conducted an orchestra and choir made up of my fellow students, using a baton my mentor handed me. I knew the baton was old, but thought nothing else of it. Then at lunch, my mentor held up the same baton and told me that it had been used numerous times by Arturo Toscanini. I knew already that one of Toscanini’s protégés was the mentor of my own mentor. I asked if I could use the same baton for our performance the next night, and he allowed it. The following night, the Mass came alive like it never had in rehearsal. Was it because of the baton, or my knowledge of its lineage, or some other reason? I definitely think there was some magic at play.

As for cigars, I do always like to think about the history of the brand, and what was going on in the world at the time the cigar was manufactured. More often, I think of the first time I had that particular smoke, and my evolving perceptions of that cigar. Gives me a little more personal connection to it, instead of just a “smoke break.”

[El Presidente]

5 hours ago, Capn_Jackson said:

I appreciate Tim Minchin bringing musical instruments into the conversation. Once, in grad school, I conducted an orchestra and choir made up of my fellow students, using a baton my mentor handed me. I knew the baton was old, but thought nothing else of it. Then at lunch, my mentor held up the same baton and told me that it had been used numerous times by Arturo Toscanini. I knew already that one of Toscanini’s protégés was the mentor of my own mentor. I asked if I could use the same baton for our performance the next night, and he allowed it. The following night, the Mass came alive like it never had in rehearsal. Was it because of the baton, or my knowledge of its lineage, or some other reason? I definitely think there was some magic at play.

As for cigars, I do always like to think about the history of the brand, and what was going on in the world at the time the cigar was manufactured. More often, I think of the first time I had that particular smoke, and my evolving perceptions of that cigar. Gives me a little more personal connection to it, instead of just a “smoke break.”

Great story 

[sageman]

The book ‘Cork Dork’ addresses this when the author visits a flavor lab I believe, and talks about how influences like looking at a color can change the way we perceive flavor. It’s an interesting book since she writes a lot about the science of smell and taste, and ties in some interesting stories, but she can also be a bit much at times. Otherwise the knowledge directly ties into understanding wine and definitely relates to understanding cigars.