....apparently easy to taste without complications.

[El Presidente]

https://elsiglodeuropa.es/llega-el-montecristo-wide-edmundo/

The Montecristo Wide Edmundo arrives

Novelty in the cellars

by The Century of Europe

 

 December 1, 2022

 

of Culture

 

The Good Life / Ángel A. García Muñoz

The latest novelty to arrive in cigar cellars throughout Spain is the Montecristo Wide Edmundo, which perfectly matches its name due to the width of its ring gauge 54 and its 21.43 mm diameter, with an excellent draft.

Montecristo is an already classic brand of Habanos that was created in the Cuban capital in 1935 by the then owner of the H. Upmann brand, the Asturian Alonso Menéndez, and that throughout its 87 years has proven to be one of the favorites by fans from all over the world, because it is not in vain that it holds the record of owning the best-selling cigar of all time with the Montecristo No. 4, of which more than 1,000 million have been consumed throughout its history.

Precisely the world presentation of this new vitola from one of the global Habanos brands was held last weekend at an evening organized by the Club Privado Pasión Habanos at the Metropolitan Stadium and attended by several hundred people.

The new Wide is part of the Edmundo Line, born in 2004 precisely with the so-called vitola (155 x 50), and is the fourth of the vitolas in this series, which use Premium cigars from the Vuelta Abajo area. in the western province of Pinar del Río, one of the highest quality Cuban demarcations in its vegas.

Together with the vitolas of the same Line called Double (155 x 50) and Petit (110 x 52), the new Wide Edmundo has the largest ring of the brand, at the same time as the Open Eagle, and maintains a convergence of flavors and tobacco traces quite pure with a cataloged strength of four on the total scale of five.

It was the last cigar to be announced in a fascinating first edition of Habanos World Days that was held in May 2021 digitally for the whole world due to the impossibility of holding the International Habano Festival corresponding to that year, and a half Afterwards, it is expected that it will be available in Spanish tobacconists in the coming weeks.

This wide incarnation of the new modality of wide ring gauge Habanos, which respond to the demand of fans for the ease of shooting, begins a new tradition of having a second yellow band, which bears the name of the vitola on the traditional yellow livery, and which received the galley designation as Duke No. 3.

Another of its characteristics lies in the good amount of tobacco that it contains, since its weight of 15.78 grams, together with its wide ring gauge, facilitates smoking without complications, with tones of medium/medium strength and an excellent shot.

The main range of the blend of tobaccos that the Montecristo of the Classic Line maintains in the new Wide Edmundo, with traces of earth and wood, which together with a magnificent and rounded flavor that does not attack the mouth, is easy to taste without complications.

World presentation of Montecristo Wide Edmundo at the Metropolitano stadium in Madrid.

[NSXCIGAR]

I can attest that my mouth did not feel attacked. There were no complications however I did not taste any earth or wood. I did get an excellent draft but I wasn't wearing pants so that could explain it. 

[KnightsAnole]

…Such an “excellent draft”… I can feel it from here…

not a release that gets me riveted, personally. Would love to see some smaller new releases now that all the big ones are too pricey to gamble on for me. 

[helix]

galley designation as Duke No. 3. ???

[NSXCIGAR]

14 hours ago, KnightsAnole said:

…Such an “excellent draft”… I can feel it from here…

not a release that gets me riveted, personally. Would love to see some smaller new releases now that all the big ones are too pricey to gamble on for me. 

I wasn't thrilled about it on paper but I've had two and they are absolutely fantastic. If the 2 are representative of how they'll be it's probably going to be my favorite Monte. They were just as enjoyable as the EL Supremos in a different way. 

Do yourself a favor and try them. They'll be priced between the DE and Edmundo and worth every penny. 

[KnightsAnole]

3 hours ago, NSXCIGAR said:

I wasn't thrilled about it on paper but I've had two and they are absolutely fantastic. If the 2 are representative of how they'll be it's probably going to be my favorite Monte. They were just as enjoyable as the EL Supremos in a different way. 

Do yourself a favor and try them. They'll be priced between the DE and Edmundo and worth every penny. 

At least the pricing position between the  two seems reasonable, and they didn’t pull a Mag54 on us.
 

That’s a solid endorsement, I’ll grab one or two at the next opportunity. I’ve quite often found your judgement on cigars akin to mine. 👍

 

There could be an opportunity in this whole mess, for Habanos to re-engage with some of their lost flock: release new, small format cigars that are affordable to the working man. But I don’t feel thats the mindset 

[NSXCIGAR]

On 12/4/2022 at 10:49 PM, KnightsAnole said:

At least the pricing position between the  two seems reasonable, and they didn’t pull a Mag54 on us.
 

That’s a solid endorsement, I’ll grab one or two at the next opportunity. I’ve quite often found your judgement on cigars akin to mine. 👍

 

There could be an opportunity in this whole mess, for Habanos to re-engage with some of their lost flock: release new, small format cigars that are affordable to the working man. But I don’t feel thats the mindset 

HSA has in all fairness done very well with almost all of their new releases. Connie 2, Galanes, Short de Punch, the 3 Trinis, JL SE & LGC Glorias LCDHs and now the Monte WE. I'm very much looking forward to the RA No. 3, LGC Turquinos and the RG Coronas de Lonsdales. 

 

[KnightsAnole]

9 hours ago, NSXCIGAR said:

HSA has in all fairness done very well with almost all of their new releases. Connie 2, Galanes, Short de Punch, the 3 Trinis, JL SE & LGC Glorias LCDHs and now the Monte WE. I'm very much looking forward to the RA No. 3, LGC Turquinos and the RG Coronas de Lonsdales. 

 

I guess it’s that I’ve been trained to judge a cigar, not by one or two examples, but by the box with Cubans. That’s not even sufficient, really, to pass judgment. I like to plow through a couple boxes before I really feel confident I know a Cuban cigar. And, that’s what I’m going to miss. Now, I might only try a handful of each of those. Not to mention they are all fairly big cigars

Dedicated fans have been calling for new smaller formats for years (or the old ones)… throw the dog a bone for gods sake, how bout a new whole leaf panatela for under $200 a box.. I think many Habanos customers feel their toys we’re abruptly taken away with nothing to replace them.

[NSXCIGAR]

16 minutes ago, KnightsAnole said:

Dedicated fans have been calling for new smaller formats for years (or the old ones)… throw the dog a bone for gods sake, how bout a new whole leaf panatela for under $200 a box.. I think many Habanos customers feel their toys we’re abruptly taken away with nothing to replace them.

Absolutely true, no doubt. But the small RGs just aren't what the consumers want evidently. That doesn't mean I wouldn't still make them, but you also have the consideration that long skinnies are the most unprofitable cigars to produce as the same amount of wrapper is being used for less filler. You can charge much more for a DC than you can for a Lonsdale. 

Totally agree that HSA is really hitting a lot of the base hard. The only reasons it's a viable approach right now are the supply levels and logistics issues. If retail supply does increase they're going to have a problem if they're not willing to back off this pricing scheme. 

People are quick to forget Cohiba wasn't exactly flying off the shelves in early 2022 when CoRo was $700. It could be found just about everywhere without much of an issue. When there's a shortage you can raise prices quite a bit as there's quite a few cigar smokers for whom price is no object. However once all those people are satiated you're left with everyone else who is much more price conscious. 

Cigars are an unusual product in that there are a relatively small number of people who will pay outrageous prices for something that is normally affordable for the rest of us. If there was a 60% shortage of lawn chairs or beach balls they still wouldn't be able to double or triple prices as there are almost no people who would pay a price that high for those items. Cigars are different. There is a high degree of price elasticity in a small but significant group of consumers. 

[KnightsAnole]

It is a disturbing idea indeed, that we may have reached a new level of wealth disparity in the world, that there are enough price objection-less people to approximately sustain Cuba’s cigar industry. 

[shokao]

Can't wait to see a box of those on 24:24.

[HuffnPuffff]

Can't wait to see a box of those on 24:24.

Blink, and you’ll miss ’em!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[NSXCIGAR]

14 hours ago, KnightsAnole said:

that there are enough price objection-less people to approximately sustain Cuba’s cigar industry. 

Well, the middle class isn't sustaining the yacht industry either.

Actually, my belief is that HSA getting hammered right now. I doubt we'll know the extent of it as there's China and Cuba on both sides of the accounting now but there's no way a 60% drop in supply can be made up with a 2-3x price hike on Cohiba, Trini and 2 super premium lines and a 50% increase for the rest. So to say they're sustaining is far from confirmed. 

[El Presidente]

1 hour ago, NSXCIGAR said:

Well, the middle class isn't sustaining the yacht industry either.

Actually, my belief is that HSA getting hammered right now. I doubt we'll know the extent of it as there's China and Cuba on both sides of the accounting now but there's no way a 60% drop in supply can be made up with a 2-3x price hike on Cohiba, Trini and 2 super premium lines and a 50% increase for the rest. So to say they're sustaining is far from confirmed. 

....they are playing a magnificient game of poker however. 

no one quite knows if they are bluffing....or holding a hand. 

 

 

[NSXCIGAR]

2 hours ago, El Presidente said:

....they are playing a magnificient game of poker however. 

no one quite knows if they are bluffing....or holding a hand. 

Although they are in the unique position of not being able to go out of business. 

Who knows. This whole thing might just be a ploy to get Allied to pony up some dough. They got into this deal just before COVID and Cuba can play victim. I'm sure they would never have done the deal if they had known. Now they're stuck and all the sudden their $1.1B is worth $600M. Cuba may be concocting some basis for hitting Allied up for a few hundred million capital injection.

The Chinese are going to learn getting in to bed with Cuba is a risky proposition. 

[El Presidente]

18 minutes ago, NSXCIGAR said:

Who knows. This whole thing might just be a ploy to get Allied to pony up some dough.

I doubt it. Allied needed part vendor finance to complete the initial Imperial deal. 

[NSXCIGAR]

15 hours ago, El Presidente said:

I doubt it. Allied needed part vendor finance to complete the initial Imperial deal. 

That was only a 6 month deal while the long term details were hashed out. There were also regulatory and antitrust hurdles that needed to be cleared. A vendor loan for ~25% may be standard practice in cases like that. 

No one knows much about Allied except that it has 3 board members from Suncity. What's interesting is the founder of Suncity, Alvin Chau, was arrested in Nov 2020 for money laundering. It's safe to assume Suncity or Chau himself has a not-insignificant stake in Allied. 

Actually, Allied set up "Allied Cigar Corporation SL" in Spain to purchase Imperial's stake. Control of that entity shifted to the British Virgin Islands and a company called "Asia Uni Corp".

Asia Uni Corp and Allied have the same connection to a man named Chen Zhi who appears to have been the primary orchestrator of the Imperial deal. He has China, HK and Macau connections and is very close with several high-ranking Cuban officials as well as the Cambodian prime minister Hun Sen. No doubt there are some diverse deep pockets involved. 

[PuroDiario]

On 12/6/2022 at 4:15 AM, NSXCIGAR said:

Absolutely true, no doubt. But the small RGs just aren't what the consumers want evidently. That doesn't mean I wouldn't still make them, but you also have the consideration that long skinnies are the most unprofitable cigars to produce as the same amount of wrapper is being used for less filler. You can charge much more for a DC than you can for a Lonsdale. 

Totally agree that HSA is really hitting a lot of the base hard. The only reasons it's a viable approach right now are the supply levels and logistics issues. If retail supply does increase they're going to have a problem if they're not willing to back off this pricing scheme. 

People are quick to forget Cohiba wasn't exactly flying off the shelves in early 2022 when CoRo was $700. It could be found just about everywhere without much of an issue. When there's a shortage you can raise prices quite a bit as there's quite a few cigar smokers for whom price is no object. However once all those people are satiated you're left with everyone else who is much more price conscious. 

Cigars are an unusual product in that there are a relatively small number of people who will pay outrageous prices for something that is normally affordable for the rest of us. If there was a 60% shortage of lawn chairs or beach balls they still wouldn't be able to double or triple prices as there are almost no people who would pay a price that high for those items. Cigars are different. There is a high degree of price elasticity in a small but significant group of consumers. 

Only good intentions here, so apologies if this falls the wrong way. I think what you mean is there is low degree of price elasticity (not high), meaning demand for Cubans is relatively inelastic. Price elasticity of demand = change in demand / change in price. Anything below 1 in this division is relatively inelastic: a Hermes bag, a Cuban cigar to your point. So high elasticity is when changes in price highly impact demand for that good/service. In this case massive price changes have not affected to the same extent the demand (reasons aside and noting that volume is lower than stable historically).
 

chairs and balls as you say are highly elastic on demand side totally agree. However, if you were to cut volumes of their availability for next two-three years and the market knew, I would bet that you would see a change in that pattern in general and more accentuated in beach destinations or whatever. For example construction wood is highly elastic, but look at what happened to wood prices during first 12-18 months Post COVID. Needs and unavailability drove pattern changes in historical elasticity.

elasticity is mainly driven by need and/or exclusivity. Life saving drugs are quasi inelastic, a Hermes bag is quasi inelastic, chemical drugs in Ibiza are quasi inelastic, Taylor swift tickets, etc etc. 

sorry to go off topic a bit. But this is a point I have been mentioning since beginning of price hikes announcement and the new half owners of habanos understood this, and it may or may have not been in their acquisition roadmap to rationalize pricing, but the COVID boom allowed them to do so. And so far they have been proven right (perhaps, only perhaps, except with Trinidad for what I see on 24:24 and what I saw in Spain estancos a couple months ago).

😊

[Capn_Jackson]

On 12/4/2022 at 5:02 AM, El Presidente said:

flavor that does not attack the mouth

Too bad... that sounds like it might be fun!

[NSXCIGAR]

5 hours ago, PuroDiario said:

So far they have been proven right (perhaps, only perhaps, except with Trinidad for what I see on 24:24 and what I saw in Spain estancos a couple months ago).

I defer to your descriptions of elasticity in this case. 

I think a better example would be a car like Porsche. Porsches are affordable for a wide range of people at present. But there are a small but significant group of people who would buy them at double or triple the price. If Porsche cut production by 60% and doubled prices they would still sell out. 

I would argue Cuban cigars have a similar kind of demand profile as Porsches. But what Porsche would figure out is that the majority of their business comes from people who are price conscious and those people are willing to buy another car even though they would prefer a Porsche but now can't afford it. I think they'd be in the exact situation HSA is in now. 

When production eventually increases and expensive Porsches start piling up they'll be in big trouble unless they lower the prices, but they'll also find many of their customers have switched to other cars and are quite happy with them. 

Rob sells low enough volume that $450 Reyes are being bought but by those for whom money is no object. There aren't many if those people. I suspect Rob is selling almost all of it to China and HK. in fact I was just at the LCDH and he was sending 30 boxes of Siglo VI all to China for $3,000. They are paying those prices. But there are not enough buyers to send out 300 boxes. And eventually there will be 300 boxes. 

And again, I truly believe after looking at the numbers that HSA is losing a ton of revenue right now. When production drops by 60% all they can do is raise prices and they should. But it's not enough to offset the drop in volume. Unfortunately with China and Cuba on both sides of the books we'll probably never get an accurate revenue figure ever again. 

[PuroDiario]

3 hours ago, NSXCIGAR said:

I defer to your descriptions of elasticity in this case. 

I think a better example would be a car like Porsche. Porsches are affordable for a wide range of people at present. But there are a small but significant group of people who would buy them at double or triple the price. If Porsche cut production by 60% and doubled prices they would still sell out.

thank you for your response. 
let’s discuss the business implications To HSA and analogous examples, but price elasticity of demand in this case is what it is I am afraid. Sharing a link for a more formal explanation, though still informal. 

https://www.investopedia.com/terms/p/priceelasticity.asp

In your Porsche example, I don’t totally agree on the demand side if supply held constant. Only if more Porsches were available in market (only if more CUbans were available in market) as to meet existing demand, the price elasticity of demand would increase. Below is a good example and in line with your comment, but trying to be accurate conceptually here.
https://www.hagerty.com/media/archived/economics-101/

The missing part in your agrument is tht there are plenty of almost perfect substitutes for current production Porsches in market (this does not really apply to classics/collectibles). 

https://scholar.harvard.edu/files/alada/files/price_elasticity_of_demand_handout.pdf

 

as per the existence of this blog, there are few to none good enough substitutes for Cuban cigars hence price elasticity is very low (specially in low supply territory like now) and while improved quality and higher availability of NCs start dislocating allocation of smokers spend from Cubans to NCs they do not drive enough dislocation as to shift demand towards elastic territory and increased supply of Cubans is not coming soon to us in sufficient size.
 

a good example away from how we are discussing the topic is the other post around how increased tobacco taxation has never achieved lower smoking rates in populations studied (someone posted around this recently) and in that case cigarettes supply is plenty and the product has different dynamics. But is an addiction/habit/you name it, and as mentioned, need-exclusivity-no substitutes drives demand towards low elasticity or quasi-inelasticity.

 

cool discussion 😊

[Fugu]

“Montecristo is an already classic brand of Habanos that was created in the Cuban capital in 1935 by the then owner of the H. Upmann brand, the Asturian Alonso ..”

Starts right out in left field with the first sentence already. 🙄

On 12/7/2022 at 10:25 PM, NSXCIGAR said:

No one knows much about Allied

Some more details here, for those interested:

https://www.rfa.org/english/news/cambodia/cigars-10072022161145.html/ampRFA

11 hours ago, PuroDiario said:

a Hermes bag

I never understood the Hermes bag...😅

6 hours ago, NSXCIGAR said:

I would argue Cuban cigars have a similar kind of demand profile as Porsches.

Not all of them. Staying in your analogy, there’s still a good deal of Volkswagen there and a certain amount of Audi in the CC range. Still, you can also find a few Škodas (well, even Dacias, one should say, but strictly not the same concern...), no-frills cigars that get you from A to B. So, you can still move a bit down the line while staying within the company’s portfolio.

What they try is to crank up pricing for the Porsches (while not altering the product, and getting rid of the “pedestrians”) and to make people believe Trini in unit with certain special lines (Linea 1935, Linea d’Oro) in their showroom are all new shiny Porsche, too (Macan perhaps)....

[helix]

4 hours ago, PuroDiario said:

there are few to none good enough substitutes for Cuban cigars

With all do respect .

That's a matter of opinion and perhaps a touch of snobbery . IMO. 🤨

[PuroDiario]

1 hour ago, helix said:

With all do respect .

That's a matter of opinion and perhaps a touch of snobbery . IMO. 🤨

Call it as you please. The data backs up the assessment. And opinion and snobbery are not mutually exclusive with reality. Do you know any other cigar that packs majority Cuban tobacco? Any other puro made of Cuban tobacco, so again call it as you please. 👍🏼

[helix]

Do not believe a good substitute for Cuban cigars has to be Cuban puros. They are not  inelastic , sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.