If anyone was wondering why the UK is currently a raging bin fire

[Ken Gargett]

1 hour ago, Blakes said:

Oh you've done it now!  🍿🙃

i can only speak to what i saw. i fully accept many hated her and that there were many who suffered but my experience was pretty close to everyone suffering when i was there in 78/79. i was truly staggered at the difference across the entire country when i returned in 85. had things continued along the lines they were headed under wilson/callaghan, who knows where the UK would have gone but i'd bet it would have been far worse off overall. i do accept that not everyone will agree. 

[cnov]

3 hours ago, Ken Gargett said:

what she did for the country was extraordinary

Sorry Ken but I've had to report you to the mods for this one.

While we're in the midst of a cost of living crisis, it's hard not to think that the selling off of those council houses might have been the only thing taming runaway house prices. I'll v,v

When when the poorest in the country are earning £18k (if they're lucky) but can't buy a poxy little flat for 10x their salary, I cant help but think it might just have been worth having some competition to a free market that had to turn the roofs into investments.

Murdoch also lost an election here in my lifetime, an admirable record but it's not done most of us any good at all

[Ken Gargett]

8 minutes ago, cnov said:

Sorry Ken but I've had to report you to the mods for this one.

While we're in the midst of a cost of living crisis, it's hard not to think that the selling off of those council houses might have been the only thing taming runaway house prices. I'll v,v

When when the poorest in the country are earning £18k (if they're lucky) but can't buy a poxy little flat for 10x their salary, I cant help but think it might just have been worth having some competition to a free market that had to turn the roofs into investments.

Murdoch also lost an election here in my lifetime, an admirable record but it's not done most of us any good at all

as i said, long way from perfect. but i was blown away by the attitude and atmosphere between the two visits. the first time, it would be best described by those things in harry potter that suck the joy out of life - dementors - i think. the place felt like that. honestly, on all my visits to cuba i have never ever found the place to be as lacking in optimism and hope as the UK was in 78/79. by 85, there was optimism and confidence - sure, not everyone but please, someone, point out the perfect system. whatever else she did, she deserves immense credit for that alone. 

fully accept others will disagree but that is how it seemed to me. 

[cnov]

It feels a bit like there's been little joy in the country for a lot of people for the last couple of years to be honest, but I'm not sure the current Tory party give a rat's. They're certainly not keen on doing anything about it.

[Ken Gargett]

Just now, cnov said:

It feels a bit like there's been little joy in the country for a lot of people for the last couple of years to be honest, but I'm not sure the current Tory party give a rat's. They're certainly not keen on doing anything about it.

not arguing against that for a moment. only talking about the history as i saw it.

mind you, australia always does its bit to keep poms depressed -  it is called the Ashes. 

[99call]

7 hours ago, Ken Gargett said:

if labour have not cultivated them as best they can then they are gibbering idiots and too stupid to govern

Ken, I'm not suggesting Labour has a policy of not receiving support from the papers if its offered, I'm just pointing out the difference in being in hock to a powerful entity, and them (Tory papers or Labour unions)  being largely responsible, and owning your win over you.   To what Starmer has done, which is refusing direction from the Unions, loosing all their financial support, but leaving the door open. If he wins, he'll has not made enemies of them, and allow them to throw money back in the coffers, but equally they will not own that victory, and be able to hold a list of demands over him.      Much the same with the papers, you can talks with them etc, but do not kiss the ring and become indebted to them,  as it's a mugs game.

7 hours ago, Ken Gargett said:

as for following attlee, this is such a different time and such different circumstances

The way the polls are looking at the moment, and i'm sure the Tories will win a few point back, but come the next election, Labour could win a huge majority.  My comments around Attlee, was just to say that the topic of Nationalisation, is now popular with voters on all sides.   If Starmer can win a big majority, he will have a huge crisis of work on his hands, but it could re-bond this country back together.  Green power, decent jobs, businesses that pay their taxes, affordable new homes, a decent standard of care for the elderly and disabled, and a stealthy drip drip rejoining of the EU

7 hours ago, Ken Gargett said:

i only have one strong issue of disagreement with what you say - when you talk of his family with nurses and tool makers etc

I do think this has more of an impact than you might think, and not always for the better.  For example Liz Truss grew up in a very left wing socialist household, so much so that her father has pretty much disowned her.    I think much like my mates I have with Man Utd supporting shit fathers, they often grow up supporting Man City just to spite them.   Liz Truss I believe had a pretty unhealthy upbringing by radicals, and she has grown up to be a radical........just not the same flag.        I do think our upbringings colour our moral code, how could they not, but it's never as simple as people suggest.   If someone is reactionary minded, or rebellious, they are likely to disown the value of their upbringing.  Or if tragedy his someones life, for example Starmers mum had autoinflammatory disease which meant she required a huge amount of family and NHS care,  as hit happens he said her care was brilliant and he formed a very positive impression of the NHS,  now in an alternate past, if she had receiver terrible treatment and suffered, you could well imagine Starmer could have formed a very negative impression of the NHS.......    I'm not saying it's painting by numbers, but I do think a high percentage of people echo a blueprint of there parents values throughout their own lives. 

7 hours ago, Ken Gargett said:

thatcher

Not going to have a go at you about Thatcher Ken, But I will say this.  This obsession of A Singapore-on-Thames for the Neo-Liberals is a fight whereby I think there is a perfect solution.   London is now a complete oddity to the rest of the country, the level of investment it's received has alienated it from the rest of the country.  Where as the idiots like Farrage and Arron Banks want to turn the whole country into some sort of Chinese regulation free sweat shop, I do think there is solid reasonable grounds for reclassifying London as a seperate tax haven entity.  I would do the following

- Move the seat of power to York, or the Midlands somewhere

- Allow London to become some sort of Hong Kong, Singapore tax haven, but they get completely cut off from UK tax payer monies, They fend for themselves

- Oligarchs, tax evaders, etc can get up to whatever they want, but do not drag the rest of the country into its mess

- I believe this would actually have a stabilising effect on the fracturing Union,  every other corner of the Union seems to have an affinity with one another,....but a rejection of Westminster and a city that does not reflect the state of the nation. 

[Ken Gargett]

5 hours ago, 99call said:

Ken, I'm not suggesting Labour has a policy of not receiving support from the papers if its offered, I'm just pointing out the difference in being in hock to a powerful entity, and them (Tory papers or Labour unions)  being largely responsible, and owning your win over you.   To what Starmer has done, which is refusing direction from the Unions, loosing all their financial support, but leaving the door open. If he wins, he'll has not made enemies of them, and allow them to throw money back in the coffers, but equally they will not own that victory, and be able to hold a list of demands over him.      Much the same with the papers, you can talks with them etc, but do not kiss the ring and become indebted to them,  as it's a mugs game.

The way the polls are looking at the moment, and i'm sure the Tories will win a few point back, but come the next election, Labour could win a huge majority.  My comments around Attlee, was just to say that the topic of Nationalisation, is now popular with voters on all sides.   If Starmer can win a big majority, he will have a huge crisis of work on his hands, but it could re-bond this country back together.  Green power, decent jobs, businesses that pay their taxes, affordable new homes, a decent standard of care for the elderly and disabled, and a stealthy drip drip rejoining of the EU

I do think this has more of an impact than you might think, and not always for the better.  For example Liz Truss grew up in a very left wing socialist household, so much so that her father has pretty much disowned her.    I think much like my mates I have with Man Utd supporting shit fathers, they often grow up supporting Man City just to spite them.   Liz Truss I believe had a pretty unhealthy upbringing by radicals, and she has grown up to be a radical........just not the same flag.        I do think our upbringings colour our moral code, how could they not, but it's never as simple as people suggest.   If someone is reactionary minded, or rebellious, they are likely to disown the value of their upbringing.  Or if tragedy his someones life, for example Starmers mum had autoinflammatory disease which meant she required a huge amount of family and NHS care,  as hit happens he said her care was brilliant and he formed a very positive impression of the NHS,  now in an alternate past, if she had receiver terrible treatment and suffered, you could well imagine Starmer could have formed a very negative impression of the NHS.......    I'm not saying it's painting by numbers, but I do think a high percentage of people echo a blueprint of there parents values throughout their own lives. 

Not going to have a go at you about Thatcher Ken, But I will say this.  This obsession of A Singapore-on-Thames for the Neo-Liberals is a fight whereby I think there is a perfect solution.   London is now a complete oddity to the rest of the country, the level of investment it's received has alienated it from the rest of the country.  Where as the idiots like Farrage and Arron Banks want to turn the whole country into some sort of Chinese regulation free sweat shop, I do think there is solid reasonable grounds for reclassifying London as a seperate tax haven entity.  I would do the following

- Move the seat of power to York, or the Midlands somewhere

- Allow London to become some sort of Hong Kong, Singapore tax haven, but they get completely cut off from UK tax payer monies, They fend for themselves

- Oligarchs, tax evaders, etc can get up to whatever they want, but do not drag the rest of the country into its mess

- I believe this would actually have a stabilising effect on the fracturing Union,  every other corner of the Union seems to have an affinity with one another,....but a rejection of Westminster and a city that does not reflect the state of the nation. 

not ignoring you - just racing to get away to planes for the next few days. if i don't get a chance to read it while away, will do so on return. 

[99call]

4 hours ago, Ken Gargett said:

not ignoring you - just racing to get away to planes for the next few days. if i don't get a chance to read it while away, will do so on return. 

Ken, I'm not sure what the expectations are of the other good folk on here, but I never expect a response and know your always on deadlines whether it be to finish a piece of writing, or a bottle of something ancient/amazing. 

That said it's always interesting to hear your take on stuff, even if it sometimes takes on the form of a Sir Alex Ferguson 'hairdryer' session...Ha!

Best, Stefan

[Fuzz]

16 hours ago, 99call said:

- Move the seat of power to York, or the Midlands somewhere

 

You can't ask government officials to live in the north! Their wives would not stand for it! There's nothing up their to spend anything on! Harrods is not there!!

[99call]

3 hours ago, Fuzz said:

You can't ask government officials to live in the north! Their wives would not stand for it! There's nothing up their to spend anything on! Harrods is not there!!

You never know they might like it. Theres lots of stray desperate 18yr old lads up here. And when you're an MP you never pay, you go straight for the grope. The latest debacle is Conor Burns, protesting his innocence on twitter, only to be cut short by Scary Spice! who he seeming managed to confess something to in lift (at the Tory Party Conference). Mel B aka Scary Spice was there as part of her work advocating against domestic violence, and was unlikely to be his port in a storm.   You couldn't write it...grim