What really happens as a cigar ages?

[RDB]

What I mean here is: what physical and chemical processes are taking place, and how does this affect the way the cigar smokes?

Let's assume good storage, so the temperature and moisture content is stable and appropriate. And lets assume we start with good cigars.

Presumably something happens to the oils, as the wrappers lose their sheen over time. Is there oxidation, or has that essentially completed? Is there any continuing fermentation? What's happening to the sugars and protein in the tobacco leaf? Is there a decent explanation of the apparent increase in 'smoothness' and 'complexity' as cigars age?  

I'm not expecting there to be a lot of research to be honest, and some of the stuff I've found online is obviously nonsense. People still don't really understand the ageing of wine in bottle, which is a much bigger industry. But I'd be fascinated to hear what people do know, or what we can reasonably infer.

[Ritch]

They decompose? And just like some cheese - the best ones are the ones that are rotten or on there way to rotten!?

[ponfed]

If I had to guess, and if I use my precious life beer brewer knowledge, I would guest aging is mainly oxidation of certain compounds in the oil and residual fermentation of the tobacco.

The oxidation would add complexity by breaking downs some big, probably odorless molecules and then resulting molecules themselves do add to the aroma.

It might break down stuff that add to harshness and that make the smoke more "bold" so to speak.

That's speculation though, I'm curious as to what actual experts think.

[Puros Y Vino]

Easy! I start grinning ear to ear with every passing year.  

[RDB]

I’m giving this a bump for the weekend... no chemists out there to shed light on the mystery?

[Derboesekoenig]

There are at least 2 maturation processes. I'll have to go back to the legend, Mr. Min Ron Nee, but off the top of my head, the first maturation process is fairly quick, and the second one can take much, much longer (10-15+ yrs). I believe there is also a third maturation process, but no guarantee that a certain cigar/box will go through that. I will re-post more concrete information when I go back and read some excerpts about the aging process in the encyclopedia.

[bpm32]

1 hour ago, RDB said:

I’m giving this a bump for the weekend... no chemists out there to shed light on the mystery?

Ponfed’s post above is an excellent synopsis of what would be going on. For fun, I searched SciFinder on this a few years ago and there was very little literature on tobacco aging (plenty on fermentation), which makes sense since it would be a highly complex analysis and who would want to pay for it?

If I was a program sponsor who needed to fund research on cigar aging for whatever reason, I’d probably look to the whisky and wine industries to find analytical chemists to do it. For whisky especially, it makes financial sense to understand the aging process and accelerate it, so they may have gas chromatography guys who could get a good handle on what’s going on.

But after you identify the desirable processes to make desirable compounds, what do you do to encourage them? That would be an even more difficult problem.

[Derboesekoenig]

On 10/17/2018 at 5:16 PM, ponfed said:

 

The oxidation would add complexity by breaking downs some big, probably odorless molecules and then resulting molecules themselves do add to the aroma.

 

Not necessarily. I've heard time and time again, between the different maturation processes, cigars go from good to bad, back to good. Or from meh, to amazing, back to meh. Or anywhere in between. Very curious subject though. It's part of the fun of lying boxes down. And then finally when you find something mind blowing, it's a discontinued stick, nowhere to be found, and you just smoked your last one. 

[bpm32]

8 minutes ago, Derboesekoenig said:

Not necessarily. I've heard time and time again, between the different maturation processes, cigars go from good to bad, back to good. Or from meh, to amazing, back to meh. Or anywhere in between. Very curious subject though. It's part of the fun of lying boxes down. And then finally when you find something mind blowing, it's a discontinued stick, nowhere to be found, and you just smoked your last one. 

I think the statement still holds either way: some of the decomp products may taste great, some may taste terrible.

[joshhooper7]

I've never smoked a cigar with age on it and thought that it tasted worse than it had before. For me, the flavor delivery and rough edges mellow out and you have a better product,. After that the lack of edges around individual flavors seems to tame a cigar too much, wipe out complexity and give you a bland smoking experience. The bland smoking experience definitely isn't what you're looking for, but it is what it is - I don't consider cigars worse for it, I just note that on the next box I'm going to smoke them all before they get to that point.

[Hookmaker]

On 10/17/2018 at 2:17 PM, Ritch said:

They decompose? And just like some cheese - the best ones are the ones that are rotten or on there way to rotten!?

Actually the best cheese is the one that has been eaten and passed through the intestines of a cheese fly maggot - Sardinian Casu Marzu.?

I’m not a cigar expert, but a pharmacist/chemist and I can say that all chemical properties change over time. Tobacco leaves contain lots of different stuff that decompose faster or slower, so the total composition - the smokeable blend will be different with time. Most noticeable is perhaps the braking down and smoothing out of tannins like in wine and also sugars and aetheric oils. The aetheric oils are usually very fragrant but also the most volatile. The total equation is much more complex  as are the effects of outside factors like humidity, light and temperature. The final outcome can therefore not be predicted. But experience is helpful - just like it is with wine.

Your own taste is however the most important in my experience from wine collecting over 30 years. IF you find any cigar to be fantastic when young, don’t rely on it getting better. I just drank a 20 year old Cornas tonight, a complex fantastic wine, but not at all as it was when released 16 years ago. Then it was massive, black and taught - something a lot of people like. Now it feels thin and very delicate, but has released a palate of complex notes. A LOT of people will not like this and if they taste both, they would prefer the young one any time. I wouldn’t. I am sure it is the same with cigars, because it is the same type of product. ?

[BinBin]

I thought it was just the ammonia leaving and the tobacco to kind of Marry a little better. 

[ponfed]

11 hours ago, Derboesekoenig said:

Not necessarily. I've heard time and time again, between the different maturation processes, cigars go from good to bad, back to good. Or from meh, to amazing, back to meh. Or anywhere in between. 

It depends on the dynamics of the breakdown, and on what we consider good or bad in a cigar. 

Let's simplify this to the extreme. 

All cigars contain only two compounds that produce it's taste and aroma, Compound A and B. 

Also, compound B is created from the breakdown of compound A. 

Finally only certain ratios of compound A to compound B taste good. It's the balance you see. 

So let's posit that :

100% A / 0% B = tastes bad

75 % A / 25% B = tastes good

50/50 = tastes bad

25/75 = tastes good

0/100 = tastes bad

Let's say that A degrades into B at a fixed rate. 

You can easily see a scenario where

Cigar at time t0 = taste bad

A few years later it, at time t1, the ratio is 75/25 so it tastes good. Successful aging! Huzzah!

BUT... a few years after that, at t2, it's bad again! WTF? 

The ratio is 50/50 now, that's why.

And so on.. 

It's extremely simplified. But I think it proves that degradation dynamics of some compounds into other, whether from oxidation, fermentation or other, can plausibly account for the aging dynamics of cigars that we see in the real world.

Sorry for the long post.

And as I said, I don't know how true it is. I'm just saying that it's plausible and cod account for a good chunk of the effects of aging.

 

[RDB]

Great info, and thanks especially @Hookmaker. I’m a wine guy too, and it was exactly this parallel with wine ageing that made me wonder. 

With wine most people want a combination of evolution and balance. Some elements of flavour in wine don’t change much over time, like acidity. Some elements evolve relatively steadily over time, like tannins breaking down or sugars polymerising. Other micro processes and the exact role of oxidation are still a big mystery.

Whether wine tastes good after time is partly about personal preference, partly about the relationship (balance) between different flavour elements at that time, and partly about whether the wine is still alive and not dead from too much oxidation or heat damage. Some wine goes through a ‘dumb’ phase where it’s not much fun after a youthful flourish, before emerging into glorious maturity.

It’s also often said about older wine ‘there are no good wines, only good bottles’. Sounds like it will be the same with older cigars.