How Do Cigar Shops Import Torch Lighters?

[El Presidente]

Just now, Duxnutz said:

Rules are there for a reason. 

....do you mean i should really turn my phone to airline mode 

[Duxnutz]

8 minutes ago, El Presidente said:

....do you mean i should really turn my phone to airline mode 

Only if it’s an Airbus ?, the searching for a signal can run your battery down quick smart. Before they got better at shielding the wires to the avionics apparently there was a few issues with weird things happening, but again that’s an Airbus thing (computers with wings). 

[gweilgi]

2 hours ago, Duxnutz said:

Only if it’s an Airbus ?, the searching for a signal can run your battery down quick smart. Before they got better at shielding the wires to the avionics apparently there was a few issues with weird things happening, but again that’s an Airbus thing (computers with wings). 

Any chance you can point me to a confirmed case of lighters in checked luggage causing fires or other problems?  I'd be interested ....

[PapaDisco]

1 hour ago, gweilgi said:

Any chance you can point me to a confirmed case of lighters in checked luggage causing fires or other problems?  I'd be interested ....

 

4 hours ago, El Presidente said:

....do you mean i should really turn my phone to airline mode 

   Remind me never, ever to fly with you guys!

Statistics are certainly on your side; the vast majority of the time your torch lighter will not accidental go off in your checked baggage, but sooner or later someone's will.  It's a certainty given enough flights.

And yes El Presidente, cell phones can mess with avionics.  I've personally seen a slightly off frequency motorola cause full scale deflection in a Collins VOR/LOC receiver (the VOR is the navigation radio that pilots follow to the runway in bad weather).  In that experience the phone was located in the cockpit, and it was the registration signal (the scratchy buzz you can sometimes hear if you leave your cell next to an FM radio) that was causing the deflection.  The behavior of the deflection was enough to tell me that it was a false signal; the needle would jump full scale to the right, and I was in visual conditions anyway.  So all those knuckleheads in NYC who refuse to turn off their cells during the takeoff roll in IMC are risking everyone's life on the plane.  There's lots of things that have to happen for it to crash a plane: you have to be sitting by the receiving antenna, or in the cockpit, your phone has to be off frequency by just the right amount, and you need a smooth deflection that will fool a pilot.  So that's a lot of ifs, but eventually the stars will align.

Or as Agent J would put it:

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt1409024/videoplayer/vi1431020313

[Duxnutz]

3 hours ago, gweilgi said:

Any chance you can point me to a confirmed case of lighters in checked luggage causing fires or other problems?  I'd be interested ....

Hazmat and more importantly undeclared hazmat is a major concern because it’s not just yourself on a plane, it’s the other 250-300+ who may very well be travelling with undisclosed items in their bag. Vibration, temp changes, crushing actions etc and the possibility of your lighter or can of lighter fluid puncturing and providing an accelerant. I agree that a torch lighter in isolation isn’t highly likely to cause problems (lithium batteries however) but where do u draw the line? Couple bottles of butane (also prohibited)? Filled scuba tanks? Couple signal flares? 

Cargo planes carry tonnes of dangerous crap everyday (been there done that) but mostly that stuff is packaged, separated and loaded with more procedural care than checked baggage because they have to. Several cargo planes have been lost to fire.

 

[Cayman17]

9 hours ago, Duxnutz said:

Hazmat and more importantly undeclared hazmat is a major concern because it’s not just yourself on a plane, it’s the other 250-300+ who may very well be travelling with undisclosed items in their bag. Vibration, temp changes, crushing actions etc and the possibility of your lighter or can of lighter fluid puncturing and providing an accelerant. I agree that a torch lighter in isolation isn’t highly likely to cause problems (lithium batteries however) but where do u draw the line? Couple bottles of butane (also prohibited)? Filled scuba tanks? Couple signal flares? 

Cargo planes carry tonnes of dangerous crap everyday (been there done that) but mostly that stuff is packaged, separated and loaded with more procedural care than checked baggage because they have to. Several cargo planes have been lost to fire.

 

I won’t be packing my torch lighter in my packed luggage anymore (actually did not know it was prohibited to do so). So at least this thread has caused one person to change his ways. 

However, with respect to plane mode on an iPhone, my Bose noise canceling earphones require me to stay out of airplane mode, but I do turn the cellular data off and connect my phone to the earphones via the Southwest onboard WiFi. If the cellular data is turned off and I am on the airline’s WiFi, is that still dangerous to not be in airplane mode? 

[luv2fly]

Unfortunately most of the FAR's are written in blood (accident already happened to cause the new regulation).  I agree that a torch lighter in isolation is a low risk but one day the stars will indeed align.  It is not a question of will it happen but when it will happen.

On the lighter side, one of the funniest things I ever saw when a passenger ignored the rules was when we were pulling into the gate.  The guy in front of me got out of his seat before we were completely stopped and the captain hit the breaks.  He wound up in the floor two rows forward.  

[Connoisseur Kim]

   Remind me never, ever to fly with you guys!
Statistics are certainly on your side; the vast majority of the time your torch lighter will not accidental go off in your checked baggage, but sooner or later someone's will.  It's a certainty given enough flights.
And yes El Presidente, cell phones can mess with avionics.  I've personally seen a slightly off frequency motorola cause full scale deflection in a Collins VOR/LOC receiver (the VOR is the navigation radio that pilots follow to the runway in bad weather).  In that experience the phone was located in the cockpit, and it was the registration signal (the scratchy buzz you can sometimes hear if you leave your cell next to an FM radio) that was causing the deflection.  The behavior of the deflection was enough to tell me that it was a false signal; the needle would jump full scale to the right, and I was in visual conditions anyway.  So all those knuckleheads in NYC who refuse to turn off their cells during the takeoff roll in IMC are risking everyone's life on the plane.  There's lots of things that have to happen for it to crash a plane: you have to be sitting by the receiving antenna, or in the cockpit, your phone has to be off frequency by just the right amount, and you need a smooth deflection that will fool a pilot.  So that's a lot of ifs, but eventually the stars will align.
Or as Agent J would put it:
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt1409024/videoplayer/vi1431020313

Hazmat and more importantly undeclared hazmat is a major concern because it’s not just yourself on a plane, it’s the other 250-300+ who may very well be travelling with undisclosed items in their bag. Vibration, temp changes, crushing actions etc and the possibility of your lighter or can of lighter fluid puncturing and providing an accelerant. I agree that a torch lighter in isolation isn’t highly likely to cause problems (lithium batteries however) but where do u draw the line? Couple bottles of butane (also prohibited)? Filled scuba tanks? Couple signal flares? 
Cargo planes carry tonnes of dangerous crap everyday (been there done that) but mostly that stuff is packaged, separated and loaded with more procedural care than checked baggage because they have to. Several cargo planes have been lost to fire.
 

I won’t be packing my torch lighter in my packed luggage anymore (actually did not know it was prohibited to do so). So at least this thread has caused one person to change his ways. 
However, with respect to plane mode on an iPhone, my Bose noise canceling earphones require me to stay out of airplane mode, but I do turn the cellular data off and connect my phone to the earphones via the Southwest onboard WiFi. If the cellular data is turned off and I am on the airline’s WiFi, is that still dangerous to not be in airplane mode? 

Unfortunately most of the FAR's are written in blood (accident already happened to cause the new regulation).  I agree that a torch lighter in isolation is a low risk but one day the stars will indeed align.  It is not a question of will it happen but when it will happen.
On the lighter side, one of the funniest things I ever saw when a passenger ignored the rules was when we were pulling into the gate.  The guy in front of me got out of his seat before we were completely stopped and the captain hit the breaks.  He wound up in the floor two rows forward.  

Hmm I also saw someone took FoH torch away from TSA but FoH lighter seems the way to go imo.

Sent from my SHV-E300S using Tapatalk

[gweilgi]

On 7/19/2018 at 1:26 PM, Duxnutz said:

Hazmat and more importantly undeclared hazmat is a major concern because it’s not just yourself on a plane, it’s the other 250-300+ who may very well be travelling with undisclosed items in their bag. Vibration, temp changes, crushing actions etc and the possibility of your lighter or can of lighter fluid puncturing and providing an accelerant. I agree that a torch lighter in isolation isn’t highly likely to cause problems (lithium batteries however) but where do u draw the line? Couple bottles of butane (also prohibited)? Filled scuba tanks? Couple signal flares? 

Cargo planes carry tonnes of dangerous crap everyday (been there done that) but mostly that stuff is packaged, separated and loaded with more procedural care than checked baggage because they have to. Several cargo planes have been lost to fire.

 

Good points well made, thanks.

I think my refusal to abide by the ban on torch lighters was coloured by my views and experiences on aircraft security rather than aircraft safety.  

I shall henceforth resign myself to buying a cheap torch wherever I go ... not a great hardship, considering that I am a real sucker for all manner of cigar accessories! 

[PapaDisco]

18 hours ago, Cayman17 said:

I won’t be packing my torch lighter in my packed luggage anymore (actually did not know it was prohibited to do so). So at least this thread has caused one person to change his ways. 

However, with respect to plane mode on an iPhone, my Bose noise canceling earphones require me to stay out of airplane mode, but I do turn the cellular data off and connect my phone to the earphones via the Southwest onboard WiFi. If the cellular data is turned off and I am on the airline’s WiFi, is that still dangerous to not be in airplane mode? 

It's the cellular phone frequency that's the problem.  Some of the allocated bandwidth is right next to aviation frequencies.  It seemed like a good idea at the time I guess   Doesn't matter what your sending over that frequency; analog, digital, data or voice.  If the phone's transmitter is a little out of spec in the wrong direction it overlaps an aviation frequency.  If you're far enough away it won't matter (cell phones are weak signals).