Rugby: fan berates wallabies on Facebook

[Duxnutz]

This was soo good! Hopefully he gets to address the team...

 

‎Jack Quigley‎ to Qantas Wallabies

June 17 at 11:23pm · 

Hi guys,

Just wondering if you'd be so kind as to pass this on to Michael Cheika on my behalf. 

My name is Jack Quigley, I'm 29 years old, I'm a rugby player/coach/referee in the Far North Coast rugby competition. 

But that's not important. I'm a pleb. I'm a nobody. My opinion on rugby counts for the square root of f-all in the grand scheme of things. 

But I've got one thing. Passion. Passion for the game of rugby. And for the Wallabies. And you can't deny me that. Despite your best efforts. 

I love you, but I'll be blunt. The Wallabies are a disgrace. You got lucky in the Quarter Finals of the World Cup in 2015 thanks to Craig Joubert losing the plot in the last minute (against Scotland, funnily enough) for some reason and you've lived off it ever since. 

The constant disappointments. I'll grant you New Zealand. The All Blacks are playing a different game than everyone else right now. But losing at home, to Scotland 'B'? (I say Scotland 'B', because anyone decent the Scots had is in New Zealand on the Lions tour right now). 

You hurt me. I have to go to work tomorrow. I'm not going to turn this into one of those "they earn so much money they should do better" rants, because I know that our playing stocks are limited. Severely. But I have to go to work tomorrow, and I have to do with this sick feeling in my stomach that stems from the utter disappointment that is my national rugby team. 

When I was a kid - hell, even now, I would've given my left nut just to pull on a Wallabies jumper, but when I see you guys run out, I feel like you don't care. I KNOW you don't care, because it shows. And don't tell me I'm wrong. Don't say that you DO care, because my response is that you don't care ENOUGH! CLEARLY!

I live in Lismore, NSW, it's a two hour drive to Brisbane. I'm willing to drive to Brisbane this week and address the squad. For 15 minutes. That's all I'll need. Then I'll turn around and drive home again. Because i feel like you've lost touch with the common man. 

Anyone who says "I wouldn't necessarily agree with that" is wrong. You have. And it kills me. And everyone I know. You're quite literally hurting people with your lack of application to your jobs. 

The Wallabies attitude towards the basic skills is unacceptable. A culture of blame-avoidance has been allowed to fester. 

The Wallabies attitude towards goal kicking of "hopefully he kicks it" is simply not gonna cut it. 
I'd suggest an attitude of "Bernard, it's literally your full time job, perhaps you should stay back a few minutes after training and practice until you don't miss the goals any more?" 

The attitude towards the set piece of "hopefully TPN/Stephen throws it to the guy we've lifted" is simply not gonna cut it. I'd suggest "Don't practice until you get it right, practice until you can't get it wrong."

If the forwards aren't in at 8am tomorrow morning working on set piece, something is wrong. 

If the halves aren't in at 8am tomorrow morning working on passing the ball to the chest of the guy they're trying to pass it to, something is wrong. 

If Bernard isn't in at 8am tomorrow working on kicking the ball through the god damn posts, something is wrong. 

And if I have to see Izzy (or any other player, for that matter, nothing against Izzy personally) collecting his Seiko "Wallabies Man of the Match" watch after losing to Italy like I did after the game tonight, I'll lose it. You'll lose me. Forever. Gone. 

Give me 15 minutes. That's all I want. To look these guys in the eye and tell them WHAT IT MEANS to be a rugby fan in this country. Because they don't know. They're not fans. They're players and coaches. That's different. They don't know. 

Print this email out, give it to the Wallabies media person, pass it on to Cheiks and hopefully he gives me a 15 minute window. I'll take a day off work. It'll cost me $150 in addition to the 4-hour round trip but I'll do it. And then I'll pay $100 and a 4-hour round trip on Saturday to drive up and have the privilege of watching you stutter and stumble and fumble and make a game against Italy look a million times harder than it actually is.

But I'll do it. And I'll cheer you on and hope that you win so that on Sunday I can go into work to earn my peanuts with a smile on my face while you enjoy another skinny latte at the airport. 

Kindest regards,

Jack Quigley

[gweilgi]

Whoever this bloke is, I want to shout him a beer.  Or five.

England at the RWC did not have that passion and commitment, and they paid the price.  Then they got Eddie ... and suddenly there is passion, dedication, even *eagerness*.  The results were immediate .... 

So from a Pom in a mixed-race relationship with a die-hard Wallabies fan, all I can say is "give him those 15 minutes".  If it works, my life will be so much easier...

[JohnS]

I saw this article @Duxnutz and cracked a wry smile. I saw the game against Scotland on Saturday. Alas, I don't want to get started in regards to how I felt about it afterwards.

[Ken Gargett]

yes, saw that and almost posted. great stuff.

they do not care. got into a "discussion" on a rugby site by some bloke insisting what a strong side scotland was - no disrespect at all to scotland and they thoroughly deserved to win (in fact, at the end, i was hoping we would not snatch it, as much as that hurts, because they really did play far better than us). this was basically a second string scottish side - apparently missing 8-10 of their potential starters through injury and lions duty. we were at home. and we still got done.

i know everyone talks about cheika and his "passion" and who would be better (bit like they speak about stiles for the reds) but the results confirm that no one (perhaps greg smith) has ever done so badly as a wallaby coach. we are likely to win one out of the next four. i would not spend my own dosh fronting up for any of those games. he needs to go.

the basics are shot. defence seems like something that applies to a few players. izzy is terrific but drifts out of games. dumb decisions are made all game. there is no confidence in the scrum - if you doubt that, when they decided not to take the points (does hooper think that he can get bonus points for tries?) a few metres from the line, do they take a scrum? no - they kick it out (and not as though we have a great lineout). genia has come back a shell of himself. foley is bog average. i realise that the state sport in nsw is defending the flyhalf no matter who he is, but seriously, would he make a single nz super rugby side? but who are the alternatives? i suspect they'll start cooper on saturday and i hope that they keep genia as they have a history. silly to split that. cooper can do things foley would never envisage in his wildest dreams but he will then do something really dumb. easier to get away with it at super rugby than tests. foley will never be the reason we beat the all blacks (you could also reword that to foley will be the reason we never beat the ABs, but that would be unfair - there are so many reasons). cooper might get us a win, but probably only one out of ten at the very best, and the other nine we might lose even worse! but right now, i'd take 1 out of 10.

kurandrani? why is he there? they have goalposts. i can't imagine any other role for him. hunt at least tries. nabuli had the sort of debut that should condemn him to the trash forever. hooper tries and is usually our best - would he even make the wallabies back when we were serious? but a captain he is not. and if cheika is one tenth the coach people suggest, he must see it. what a joke. something about a fish stinking from the head, springs to mind. the new number 6 was good in the first half but just ran out of steam in the 2nd. higgers tries and can star but can do dumb things. as for the front five, coleman looked okay. the rest would be lucky to get a bench in a nz super side.

but the most monumental farce of the year was giving izzy a man of the match award. he should have had the decency to knock it back. mind you, if there was a shred of decency in this team, not one would collect a salary. they'd be too embarrassed. but they don't care.

[Fuzz]

We still have a national rugby team?

[gweilgi]

3 hours ago, Ken Gargett said:

yes, saw that and almost posted. great stuff.

they do not care. got into a "discussion" on a rugby site by some bloke insisting what a strong side scotland was - no disrespect at all to scotland and they thoroughly deserved to win (in fact, at the end, i was hoping we would not snatch it, as much as that hurts, because they really did play far better than us). this was basically a second string scottish side - apparently missing 8-10 of their potential starters through injury and lions duty. we were at home. and we still got done.

i know everyone talks about cheika and his "passion" and who would be better (bit like they speak about stiles for the reds) but the results confirm that no one (perhaps greg smith) has ever done so badly as a wallaby coach. we are likely to win one out of the next four. i would not spend my own dosh fronting up for any of those games. he needs to go.

Statistically speaking, Cheika is doing better than Mckenzie managed ... and neither were as successful as Greg Smith.  And his RWC performance was nothing to be sneezed at.  

 

3 hours ago, Ken Gargett said:

the basics are shot. defence seems like something that applies to a few players. izzy is terrific but drifts out of games. dumb decisions are made all game. there is no confidence in the scrum - if you doubt that, when they decided not to take the points (does hooper think that he can get bonus points for tries?) a few metres from the line, do they take a scrum? no - they kick it out (and not as though we have a great lineout).

Ahh, the kicking ... one of the great mysteries of our time: why the bleedin' f*ck do the Wallabies insist on box-kicking at every available opportunity?  It does my head in, it's so stupid.

 

3 hours ago, Ken Gargett said:

 

genia has come back a shell of himself.

 

My honest opinion?  If Genia hadn't played on Saturday, the Wallabies might well have won the test.  That pass was a shocker, and his box kick (them again, dagnabbit!!!) was unnecessary, stupid, and eye-waveringly badly executed.  He actually admitted as much, and kudos for him to do so.

 

3 hours ago, Ken Gargett said:

foley is bog average. i realise that the state sport in nsw is defending the flyhalf no matter who he is, but seriously, would he make a single nz super rugby side? but who are the alternatives? i suspect they'll start cooper on saturday and i hope that they keep genia as they have a history. silly to split that. cooper can do things foley would never envisage in his wildest dreams but he will then do something really dumb. easier to get away with it at super rugby than tests. foley will never be the reason we beat the all blacks (you could also reword that to foley will be the reason we never beat the ABs, but that would be unfair - there are so many reasons). cooper might get us a win, but probably only one out of ten at the very best, and the other nine we might lose even worse! but right now, i'd take 1 out of 10.

Trouble with Cooper is that he is unpredictable.  You just never know whether he will have  a cracker of a game, or be shite.  

 

3 hours ago, Ken Gargett said:

kurandrani? why is he there? they have goalposts. i can't imagine any other role for him. hunt at least tries. nabuli had the sort of debut that should condemn him to the trash forever. hooper tries and is usually our best - would he even make the wallabies back when we were serious? but a captain he is not. and if cheika is one tenth the coach people suggest, he must see it. what a joke. something about a fish stinking from the head, springs to mind. the new number 6 was good in the first half but just ran out of steam in the 2nd. higgers tries and can star but can do dumb things. as for the front five, coleman looked okay. the rest would be lucky to get a bench in a nz super side.

but the most monumental farce of the year was giving izzy a man of the match award. he should have had the decency to knock it back. mind you, if there was a shred of decency in this team, not one would collect a salary. they'd be too embarrassed. but they don't care.

Amen to that.

[Ken Gargett]

46 minutes ago, gweilgi said:

Statistically speaking, Cheika is doing better than Mckenzie managed ... and neither were as successful as Greg Smith.  And his RWC performance was nothing to be sneezed at.  

 

Ahh, the kicking ... one of the great mysteries of our time: why the bleedin' f*ck do the Wallabies insist on box-kicking at every available opportunity?  It does my head in, it's so stupid.

 

My honest opinion?  If Genia hadn't played on Saturday, the Wallabies might well have won the test.  That pass was a shocker, and his box kick (them again, dagnabbit!!!) was unnecessary, stupid, and eye-waveringly badly executed.  He actually admitted as much, and kudos for him to do so.

 

Trouble with Cooper is that he is unpredictable.  You just never know whether he will have  a cracker of a game, or be shite.  

 

Amen to that.

i see cheika rang the bloke who posted and also put it up on the wall for the players to see. good on him for that. might start to get through.

i agree with almost everything you have said, especially the box kicking. the problem with blokes like genia is that even when they are crap, they are still the best options we have.

the coaching - mckenzie turned his tenure into a toilet by messing around with the woman, lost the players and the entire thing cratered.

smith does have a better record than i recalled but for the cattle he had, we were in a monumental mess by the time he was finished. awful.

and we have a very different view of his world cup. not sure which one you were watching? we had an excellent squad, were strong favourites to beat south africa in the first game and blew it. did beat romania reasonably well and we beat canada but not that well. and then got dumped out by a bog average england. they were seriously unconvincing against both italy and argentina and then had the luxury of playing us. so we managed to beat two utter minnows and lost every other game to sides we really should have beaten.

the toxic hobbit is terrific in the first few years of his contract but it almost always ends in tears and a trainwreck. beware england.

far far too many of cheika's wins are against minor nations, but we need to be careful of them these days. it is only in recent years we play the minor nations so often. for many of these coaches, it was the all blacks, south africa, england, wales etc, possibly the lions and then a game or two against the minnows. given the qulaity of the opposition, he should have a stellar record.

Bob Dwyer (1982-83, 1988-95) – 73 tests, 46 wins. 63% win ratio.
Versus All Blacks: 20 tests for 7 wins.

Alan Jones (1984-87) – 30 tests, 21 wins. 70% win ratio.
Versus All Blacks: 8 tests for 3 wins.

Greg Smith (1996-97) – 19 tests, 12 wins. 63.16% win ratio.
Versus All Blacks: 4 tests for nil wins.

Rod MacQueen (1997-2001) – 40 tests, 32 wins. 80% win ratio!!
Versus All Blacks: 7 tests for 5 wins!

Eddie Jones (2001-05) – 57 tests, 33 wins. 57.89% win ratio.
Versus All Blacks: 11 tests for 5 wins.

John Connolly (2006-07) – 22 tests, 14 wins. 63.63% win ratio.
Versus All Blacks: 5 tests for 1 win.

don't have full figures for these guys but i think deans had three wins v the all blacks from 18 games, i believe. i think mckenzie had 1 win and 1 draw and would have had a 2nd win if that moron nic white had not kicked the ball away at the end of the game in brizzy. cheika has had 5 or 6 games v nz and we have been thrashed in the lot.

Robbie Deans

2008–2013

75

tests  44

wins

59% win ratio.

Ewen McKenzie		2013–2014	22	tests 11 wins			50% win ratio
Michael Cheika		2014–present	33 tests	18 wins			54% win ratio

[JohnS]

3 hours ago, Fuzz said:

We still have a national rugby team?

Actually there's much wisdom in this question as Rugby Union teams take shots at goal when they have penalties in the opposition half. They take the shot, get three points (more often than not) then when they regain posession they try to control the ball. Most teams will try to gain field position by kicking the ball down-field. 

The description above depicts what didn't happen on Saturday.

[Ken Gargett]

Just now, JohnS said:

Actually there's much wisdom in this question as Rugby Union teams take shots at goal when they have penalties in the opposition half. They take the shot, get three points (more often than not) then when they regain posession they try to control the ball. Most teams will try to gain field position by kicking the ball down-field. 

The description above depicts what didn't happen on Saturday.

john, your post should be tattoo'd on the insides of hooper's eyelids. they way they play? insanity.

[gweilgi]

4 minutes ago, Ken Gargett said:

i see cheika rang the bloke who posted and also put it up on the wall for the players to see. good on him for that. might start to get through.

Saw that, too.

Good on him.

 

4 minutes ago, Ken Gargett said:

i agree with almost everything you have said, especially the box kicking. the problem with blokes like genia is that even when they are crap, they are still the best options we have.

My problem with it is that they do it all the bloody time.  They do it when it is quite, quite unnecessary.  And when they do it, they are shite.  That's not just Genia but all of them (looking at you there, Nard).

 

4 minutes ago, Ken Gargett said:

the coaching - mckenzie turned his tenure into a toilet by messing around with the woman, lost the players and the entire thing cratered.

smith does have a better record than i recalled but for the cattle he had, we were in a monumental mess by the time he was finished. awful.

and we have a very different view of his world cup. not sure which one you were watching? we had an excellent squad, were strong favourites to beat south africa in the first game and blew it. did beat romania reasonably well and we beat canada but not that well. and then got dumped out by a bog average england. they were seriously unconvincing against both italy and argentina and then had the luxury of playing us. so we managed to beat two utter minnows and lost every other game.

Sorry, I was thinking of the 2015 World Cup with Cheika.  And Australia won every single match except the final.  I attended several Australia matches, and they looked first-rate all the way.  

 

4 minutes ago, Ken Gargett said:

the toxic hobbit is terrific in the first few years of his contract but it almost always ends in tears and a trainwreck. beware england.

I have been told this on a number of occasions .... let's see what happens.  Maybe we will find ourselves a new coach for the Japan RWC, but given his outstanding results so far, I doubt it.

 

4 minutes ago, Ken Gargett said:

far far too many of cheika's wins are against minor nations, but we need to be careful of them these days. it is only in recent years we play the minor nations so often. for many of these coaches, it was the all blacks, england, wales etc, possibly the lions and then a game or two against the minnows. given the qulaity of the opposition, he should have a stellar record.

Bob Dwyer (1982-83, 1988-95) – 73 tests, 46 wins. 63% win ratio.
Versus All Blacks: 20 tests for 7 wins.

Alan Jones (1984-87) – 30 tests, 21 wins. 70% win ratio.
Versus All Blacks: 8 tests for 3 wins.

Greg Smith (1996-97) – 19 tests, 12 wins. 63.16% win ratio.
Versus All Blacks: 4 tests for nil wins.

Rod MacQueen (1997-2001) – 40 tests, 32 wins. 80% win ratio!!
Versus All Blacks: 7 tests for 5 wins!

Eddie Jones (2001-05) – 57 tests, 33 wins. 57.89% win ratio.
Versus All Blacks: 11 tests for 5 wins.

John Connolly (2006-07) – 22 tests, 14 wins. 63.63% win ratio.
Versus All Blacks: 5 tests for 1 win.

don't have full figures for these guys but i think deans had three wins v the all blacks from 18 games, i believe. i think mckenzie had 1 win and 1 draw and would have had a 2nd win if that moron nic white had not kicked the ball away at the end of the game in brizzy. cheika has had 5 or 6 games v nz and we have been thrashed in the lot.

Robbie Deans

2008–2013

75

tests  44

wins

59% win ratio.

Ewen McKenzie		2013–2014	22	tests 11 wins			50% win ratio
Michael Cheika		2014–present	33 tests	18 wins			54% win ratio

Not sure anyone can win against the ABs these days.  The Irish managed it in Chicago, but I reckon that was a fluke.  It pains me to say this, but as things stand now, they are by far and away the best.

 

[JohnS]

16 minutes ago, Ken Gargett said:

john, your post should be tattoo'd on the insides of hooper's eyelids. they way they play? insanity.

  

[Ken Gargett]

6 minutes ago, gweilgi said:

Saw that, too.

Good on him.

 

My problem with it is that they do it all the bloody time.  They do it when it is quite, quite unnecessary.  And when they do it, they are shite.  That's not just Genia but all of them (looking at you there, Nard).

 

Sorry, I was thinking of the 2015 World Cup with Cheika.  And Australia won every single match except the final.  I attended several Australia matches, and they looked first-rate all the way.  

 

I have been told this on a number of occasions .... let's see what happens.  Maybe we will find ourselves a new coach for the Japan RWC, but given his outstanding results so far, I doubt it.

 

Not sure anyone can win against the ABs these days.  The Irish managed it in Chicago, but I reckon that was a fluke.  It pains me to say this, but as things stand now, they are by far and away the best.

 

if i could coach them for a day, first rule of the wallabies, anyone who box kicks is immediately dropped. second offence, you lose your foot.

agree re the all blacks but partly our own fault. no reason we could not have kept pace.

the hobbit will be there for sure, unless an early massive upheaval.

the 15 world cup does make a lot more sense. could not imagine anyone being happy with the 97 effort. but even then, i was far from convinced pretty much all tournament. we got through okay in the early rounds but it was hardly compelling - at least i thought so but perhaps my standards are higher because of years of watching them when they were a top team. scotland were dudded against us and we were not that convincing against argentina - i thought with luck they might have beaten us. and then we got swamped in the final.

[Thomasdenaro]

Well it appears that the post did the trick and he got a phone call From Michael Cheika. article on the courier mail this morning.

 

http://www.couriermail.com.au/sport/rugby/nobody-cheika-calls-furious-fan-jack-quigley-over-his-facebook-rant-on-the-wallabies/news-story/6ed45f9110d49fc06573a6539f1b2001

 

[gweilgi]

17 hours ago, Ken Gargett said:

if i could coach them for a day, first rule of the wallabies, anyone who box kicks is immediately dropped. second offence, you lose your foot.

I cannot find it in me to disagree with that in the slightest....

Second measure: take Hodge, Richardson, Foley and anyone else who has ever managed to kick a ball more than 10 yards in the same direction and make them do 200 goal kicks before lunch, 200 more after lunch.  Every damn day.  On second thoughts, before you send them out, make them read and memorise Johnny Wilkinson's autobiography as an example of dedication.

 

17 hours ago, Ken Gargett said:

agree re the all blacks but partly our own fault. no reason we could not have kept pace.

Would that include a policy of schmoozing, wining and dining any international ref?

 

17 hours ago, Ken Gargett said:

the hobbit will be there for sure, unless an early massive upheaval.

That is my expectation also.  I suppose he deserves the chance -- he did wonders with the Japanese.

 

17 hours ago, Ken Gargett said:

the 15 world cup does make a lot more sense. could not imagine anyone being happy with the 97 effort. but even then, i was far from convinced pretty much all tournament. we got through okay in the early rounds but it was hardly compelling - at least i thought so but perhaps my standards are higher because of years of watching them when they were a top team. scotland were dudded against us and we were not that convincing against argentina - i thought with luck they might have beaten us. and then we got swamped in the final.

I was sitting at the try line during the Fiji match and watched them defend with one man down.  Impressed me mightily...

But then, anything was more impressive than my own team.  England performed worse than the actors of a Ukrainian educational film about the joys of driving a combine harvester.

[Fuzz]

36 minutes ago, gweilgi said:

But then, anything was more impressive than my own team.  England performed worse than the actors of a Ukrainian educational film about the joys of driving a combine harvester.

Hey, come on. That was the highest rated program on Ukrainian TV in 2016.

[Ken Gargett]

1 hour ago, gweilgi said:

I cannot find it in me to disagree with that in the slightest....

Second measure: take Hodge, Richardson, Foley and anyone else who has ever managed to kick a ball more than 10 yards in the same direction and make them do 200 goal kicks before lunch, 200 more after lunch.  Every damn day.  On second thoughts, before you send them out, make them read and memorise Johnny Wilkinson's autobiography as an example of dedication.

 

Would that include a policy of schmoozing, wining and dining any international ref?

 

That is my expectation also.  I suppose he deserves the chance -- he did wonders with the Japanese.

 

I was sitting at the try line during the Fiji match and watched them defend with one man down.  Impressed me mightily...

But then, anything was more impressive than my own team.  England performed worse than the actors of a Ukrainian educational film about the joys of driving a combine harvester.

the kicking is truly amazing. why are we so poor? all this crap about foley being the iceman - he regularly misses simple goals as he did on the weekend. jonny was undoubtedly a great kick and i know how much he practiced. and look at the results (always thought his defence was underrated, not least by clive who often hid him - you could argue because he knew how valuable his kicking was). not sure of his percentage but i would guess low 90s? brilliant by any standards. but these days, it is the sort of percentage we are seeing (or close) from a lot of kickers in the NRL. and worth noting that they turn down a great many kickable penalties which would increase their percentages. why can the league guys do it but rubgy players, in australia, cannot? practice?

as for the dig about refs, you must be thinking of nz.

my fave ref influencing story came from tim horan in the 1991 cup final v the poms. he told me that he and little actually still called will carling, mr carling, in those days as they were so young and overawed. apparently carling was not quite so respected by all in his team. there was a break down field by the poms and poidevin was one of the tacklers and he came over the top with a bit of a swinging arm and belted carling (i can't say i remember seeing it). carling did not see who did it but got up yelling at bevan (i think - the welsh ref?), sir, sir, i've been hit high. a send off. a penalty. sir sir, you must take action. i've been struck in the head.

asked who it was, carling said he didn't know.

farr-jones arrived at this stage and said, 'to be fair, sir, it could have been any one of 29 players.

[gweilgi]

2 hours ago, Fuzz said:

Hey, come on. That was the highest rated program on Ukrainian TV in 2016.

You must be misinformed.

What about the Eurovision Song Contest, that televisual feast for every fan of all things cheesy, for all those who still think that Kylie's "I should be so lucky" is the height of musical taste?  The Ukrainians were so advanced, they won hands down!  

[gweilgi]

1 hour ago, Ken Gargett said:

the kicking is truly amazing. why are we so poor? all this crap about foley being the iceman - he regularly misses simple goals as he did on the weekend. jonny was undoubtedly a great kick and i know how much he practiced. and look at the results (always thought his defence was underrated, not least by clive who often hid him - you could argue because he knew how valuable his kicking was). not sure of his percentage but i would guess low 90s? brilliant by any standards. but these days, it is the sort of percentage we are seeing (or close) from a lot of kickers in the NRL. and worth noting that they turn down a great many kickable penalties which would increase their percentages. why can the league guys do it but rubgy players, in australia, cannot? practice?

Not enough room on this small island to practise?

Not sure of Wilko's actual percentage ... had a quick squid at the inter web, and couldn't find it.  But your guess sounds good to me...

Surely it must be possible to poach a decent kicker or two from League.  Other players have switched code.  Or is it possibly that coaches and money-men are so obsessed with getting the complete package, geniuses like Wilkinson and Carter that they are knocking back the idea of recruiting people simply because they are "only" kickers?

 

1 hour ago, Ken Gargett said:

as for the dig about refs, you must be thinking of nz.

Well spotted.  I was indeed thinking of them.

 

1 hour ago, Ken Gargett said:

my fave ref influencing story came from tim horan in the 1991 cup final v the poms. he told me that he and little actually still called will carling, mr carling, in those days as they were so young and overawed. apparently carling was not quite so respected by all in his team. there was a break down field by the poms and poidevin was one of the tacklers and he came over the top with a bit of a swinging arm and belted carling (i can't say i remember seeing it). carling did not see who did it but got up yelling at bevan (i think - the welsh ref?), sir, sir, i've been hit high. a send off. a penalty. sir sir, you must take action. i've been struck in the head.

asked who it was, carling said he didn't know.

farr-jones arrived at this stage and said, 'to be fair, sir, it could have been any one of 29 players.

LOL.

I had heard about Carling not being the most popular player, but that story is new to me.  It's not good when your own team mate doesn't back you up with the ref...