H Upmann Petit Coronas Jar

[losttrailer]

1 hour ago, Akela3rd said:

Very pleased

Cool piece indeed . . . are you going to shrink wrap the whole jar or put it into your humidor ?

[Akela3rd]

Cool piece indeed . . . are you going to shrink wrap the hole jar or put it into your humidor ?

Neither, I'll just make sure it's out of the sun. The house temp doesn't change too much and the rh should look after itself (I'm quite confident in the job I did on the gasket).

Thunder & Lightening '75-'15

[losttrailer]

I hope you are right. To my experience not a single jar i own ( including a Noellas Glass Jar ) was able to keep the rh constant without further sealing.

I kept them in the cellar, which is the coolest and most humid place in the house and within one and a half year they dropped from 67 % rh to 61 to 63 % rh.

I double-vacuum sealed them all last year after bringing them slowly back to 65 % rh.

[Akela3rd]

I hope you are right. To my experience not a single jar i own ( including a Noellas Glass Jar ) was able to keep the rh constant without further sealing.

I kept them in the cellar, which is the coolest and most humid place in the house and within one and a half year they dropped from 67 % rh to 61 to 63 % rh.

I double-vacuum sealed them all last year after bringing them slowly back to 65 % rh.

I live in the UK, the air doesn't really dry out for any length of time. Like I said above today's ambient was about 63 and it's allegedly the height of summer

Thunder & Lightening '75-'15

[mkz]

Nice!

Now just rip of the bands on the cigars and claim they are just as old as the jar... 

[Akela3rd]

Nice!

Now just rip of the bands on the cigars and claim they are just as old as the jar... 

And roll them around a bit to lose the box press....??

Thunder & Lightening '75-'15

[Fugu]

48 minutes ago, Akela3rd said:

And roll them around a bit to lose the box press....??

They will lose a fair bit of it after some time, depending on for how long they were boxed before.

Love the idea of bringing the old jar back to second life!

[Akela3rd]

They will lose a fair bit of it after some time, depending on for how long they were boxed before.

Love the idea of bringing the old jar back to second life!

This wasn't meant seriously, but I did wonder about that.

Thunder & Lightening '75-'15

[Fugu]

23 hours ago, Akela3rd said:

This wasn't meant seriously, but I did wonder about that.

Thunder & Lightening '75-'15
 

Sure, got that!

Actually, considering the aspect of refilling this historic item with new cigars - banded (in fact, I guess they didn't come unbanded at that time) and box-pressed or not: You are continuing and adding to its history: Think about it - if perhaps another 50 years down the road someone would be handed over this jar, and he or another auctioneer could tell its story: "This jar had once been acquired by an English connoisseur from an Ebay (those crazy times back then had been known as the age of the "internet"...) auction with more than 60 years on it, from Cuban pre-Castro times. A very rare item at that time already. After a cautious, expertly done refurbishment to regain its funtionality, in 2017 the gentleman filled the jar with the last of the at that time discontinued Petit Coronas (people might remember, three years ago there had been a very successful replica release as Edición Regional Estados Unidos, of 2064). Those cigars still contained, in their pristine condition today, were the last of their kind produced at that time, and they are likely some of the very few remaining and passed down to us today." 

[Akela3rd]

Love it, and thank you for this future-historical perspective.
Although to be recorded for all time as a connoisseur or indeed a gentleman may be a stretch - there's a lot of evidence out there to counter these claims. Such is the nature of history.


Thunder & Lightening '75-'15

[NSXCIGAR]

On 7/16/2017 at 8:43 PM, invisiblesurfer said:

Looks like this one here:

http://www.cigarone.com/private-collection/vintage-box.php?idvintage=52

(Mods please remove link if inappropriate)

Very good find!

That's the one I've referenced multiple times above, and only one of two that I'm aware are in existence (one sold at a C. Gars auction in 2010, also referenced by me above). 

I believe C. Gars assessment of the jar being 1970s vintage is dead wrong (not that shocking) for multiple reasons I went into in above posts. However, I think that it might be worthwhile for the OP to contact C. Gars and inquire as to what led them to believe the jar was from the 1970s and to get a value assessment as they appear to be the only ones to ever auction off such a piece, at least since the early 2000s as far as I can tell. It may also be worth contacting Cigar One to inform them that he has one of these and ask if they have any additional info regarding the piece as they have one in their museum.

No evidence of this jar exists outside of those two examples leading me to believe that this item is much more rare than those at JJ Fox thought at first glance. 

[Fugu]

13 hours ago, Akela3rd said:

Love it, and thank you for this future-historical perspective.
Although to be recorded for all time as a connoisseur or indeed a gentleman may be a stretch - there's a lot of evidence out there to counter these claims. Such is the nature of history.


Thunder & Lightening '75-'15
 

Haha, perhaps, perhaps not, what I noticed so far didn't let me suspect otherwise ...  however, some flowery language might always help to eventually auction off this old pot....

[Fugu]

13 hours ago, NSXCIGAR said:

No evidence of this jar exists outside of those two examples leading me to believe that this item is much more rare than those at JJ Fox thought at first glance

By far no expert in these things, but I tend to agree. Perhaps noteworthy also what MRN states in the packaging chapter of his book. That according to old official catalogues, the H. Upmann cigars that had been packed in these "office-jars" had been listed to be: Coronas, Cristales, Short Coronas, Noellas. No mentioning of a Petit Corona. Only for Punch is a PC listed. May be a simple omission by mistake, may be an unknwon detail at the time of writing, due to its rarity?

[NSXCIGAR]

1 hour ago, Fugu said:

By far no expert in these things, but I tend to agree. Perhaps noteworthy also what MRN states in the packaging chapter of his book. That according to old official catalogues, the H. Upmann cigars that had been packed in these "office-jars" had been listed to be: Coronas, Cristales, Short Coronas, Noellas. No mentioning of a Petit Corona. Only for Punch is a PC listed. May be a simple omission by mistake, may be an unknwon detail at the time of writing, due to its rarity?

Exactly, and all those cigars also specifically note the glass jar in their past packaging formats post-Rev. No mention of Petit Coronas in glass jar 50s post-Rev anywhere. That in and of itself would not be that unusual (ok, it's pre-Rev) but the fact that info on this particular jar is so sparse and there are only two examples I can find anywhere, one being in a museum that doesn't have anything run-of-the-mill in it (and is in far worse condition than the OPs' I might add). I also am no expert, but I like to consider myself somewhat aware of general Cuban tobacciana having followed it passively for over 20 years and, after researching this item somewhat I'm just convinced that this thing is a bit more than the average jar.

And again, I can't ignore the C. Gars jar w/ 24 fair-looking cigars that sold for ~$1,500 in 2010. Honestly, this is the best info I think we have on the value of this jar. The existence of one example in a museum is certainly significant and does suggest it is special, but IMO the auction sale is pretty compelling evidence to me--despite the fact that C. Gars almost certainly mis-assesed this as being from the 1970s. Did the buyer also think that or did they know it was probably wrong getting a great deal as a result? If anything, the sale price could have been higher if other bidders had been correctly informed. This is an item that could potentially be purchased by someone without specific knowledge of the item's rarity. It's a cool, older Upmann jar and really not that esoteric. Any fan or collector of Upmann might bite. $1,500 isn't that much and within many budgets.

I hope the OP gets some more info from Cigar One and C. Gars or a true pre-Rev expert as I really think this jar could possibly be a very special and rare piece. 

[cybermadhatter]

http://imgbox.com/Qo5WrGku

http://imgbox.com/EJ8LIM38
http://imgbox.com/YIxoLnA6
http://imgbox.com/TE6LsgsI

i purchased this on eBay about 5 years ago.  Paid like $25.  

Not as good condition as the one mentioned but I still love it.  It is gathering dust, however.  

[GP012]

On 7/18/2017 at 3:06 AM, NSXCIGAR said:

That's the one I've referenced multiple times above, and only one of two that I'm aware are in existence (one sold at a C. Gars auction in 2010, also referenced by me above).

I came across this jar back in ~2010 and it was billed as pre-revolution.

There also was an intact jar of HU Coronas available with the same pre-revolution age estimate but the cigars were in poor shape.

[cybermadhatter]

Greg, what were the prices, if you recall correctly?   Thanks 

 

 

-Steven

[NSXCIGAR]

3 hours ago, gpugliese said:

I came across this jar back in ~2010 and it was billed as pre-revolution.

There also was an intact jar of HU Coronas available with the same pre-revolution age estimate but the cigars were in poor shape.

Is that a jar of 25 or 50? The difference is critical, as the 25 jars are common and are known for a fact to have been offered for Coronas and Petit Coronas. It's specifically the 50 jar of PCs that is the item in question. 50 jars of Coronas are also listed as being offered post-Rev, but not for the PC. A 50 jar of Coronas of any era would be much more common and ostensibly far less valuable. 

Also, without the warranty seal, it's much more difficult to date that jar. You'd need someone who's seen a lots of jars both post and pre-Rev to be able to date it using other characteristics. Again, almost all HU jars of the last 80 years would be worth somewhere between $100 and $500 depending on condition, which is why I think whomever the OP spoke with at JJ Fox pegged the value around there, failing to realize the peculiar rarity of a 50 jar of PCs. 

[GP012]

9 hours ago, NSXCIGAR said:

Is that a jar of 25 or 50? The difference is critical, as the 25 jars are common and are known for a fact to have been offered for Coronas and Petit Coronas. It's specifically the 50 jar of PCs that is the item in question. 50 jars of Coronas are also listed as being offered post-Rev, but not for the PC. A 50 jar of Coronas of any era would be much more common and ostensibly far less valuable. 

It was definitely a 50ct and had ~29 left. Priced in the low $2,000's if I remember correctly. The HU Corona's were a 50ct as well.

Both 50ct jars had serrated seals and "Made in Havana - Cuba" which supported the pre-revolution date estimate.

 

[NSXCIGAR]

1 hour ago, gpugliese said:

It was definitely a 50ct and had ~29 left. Priced in the low $2,000's if I remember correctly. The HU Corona's were a 50ct as well.

Both 50ct jars had serrated seals and "Made in Havana - Cuba" which supported the pre-revolution date estimate.

 

If it was in fact a jar of 50 (the proportions on the jar you pictured looked a bit more consistent with a 25 jar) that would be the third example unearthed, and I'm not sure if the jar actually sold for $2,000 but that's certainly more in line with my amateur estimate of the price with the mislabeled as 1970s C. gars jar having sold for ~$1,600 in 2010. Perhaps $2,000 was a bit ambitious in 2010, but I would imagine that price (or higher) could be obtainable today. 

[Fugu]

30 minutes ago, NSXCIGAR said:

Perhaps $2,000 was a bit ambitious in 2010, but I would imagine that price (or higher) could be obtainable today.

Difficult to stick a price label to an item as rare as this. There isn't really a "market" for it, at least not a transparent one. In such cases, besides the actual state of preservation (the last jar here shown by @gpugliese is looking fabulous), I think pricing will rather depend much on a single collector/enthusiast and how he'd value such an item. But I guess if the jar shown above with those pristine looking original sticks would be auctioned today, given all genuine, it would certainly gain a multiple of that figure. (meanwhile, for a generic box of Monte 2 GR you'd have to pay near such figures)

[NSXCIGAR]

1 hour ago, Fugu said:

Difficult to stick a price label to an item as rare as this. There isn't really a "market" for it, at least not a transparent one. In such cases, besides the actual state of preservation (the last jar here shown by @gpugliese is looking fabulous), I think pricing will rather depend much on a single collector/enthusiast and how he'd value such an item. But I guess if the jar shown above with those pristine looking original sticks would be auctioned today, given all genuine, it would certainly gain a multiple of that figure. (meanwhile, for a generic box of Monte 2 GR you'd have to pay near such figures)

Right, and I'm in no way overly confident in my assessment which is based on primarily the C. Gars price and the fact that it appears there only may be a handful of these in existence, one being in Cigar One's museum that appears to be in less-than-ideal condition but indicating that it is as rare as it appears. There are several factors at play here, but the C. Gars price in 2010 and it's apparent rarity and age seem to clearly put the value of a jar in excellent condition at at least $2,000. 

Sure, it's hard to use the term "market" for any extremely rare item, but the C. Gars price is to me a solid indication of value. @gpugliese's jar is the best-looking of the three I can find by far, and that's ostensibly a huge factor. That jar could absolutely sell for north of $2,000--possibly much more. And I do agree, it's not really a super-esoteric piece in the sense that HU jars are very common, and it would take someone who understands the rarity of this particular jar. But those people are out there since you and me are those people!

[Fugu]

Haha, well perhaps not me - but likely the collector who is just missing such a piece for completion of his H. Upmann collection might be. And that's why I think the price can be ranging widely from - to >>>... depending on that particular potential buyer.

We can simply take the opportunity to make an updated "market" analysis and ask gpugliese at which price he'd start to consider departing with his nice piece....

[Akela3rd]

Any theories on the handwritten numbers on my jar and@cybermadhatter's ?
Is this usual on jars?
Production run number? Buyer or shipping reference? Or even a punt at the distant future price by the producer?!?

Thunder & Lightening '75-'15

[Fugu]

11 hours ago, Akela3rd said:

Production run number?

Would think so, an internal production count or such like, but I guess we can only speculate. You find similar on boxes as well, at least on older ones.