Cuba Shuts Itself Off to US Businesspeople

[El Presidente]

The realist in me...or is that pessimist? ....thinks that this US firm just saved themselves a hell of a lot of money without maybe knowing it. 

When doing business in Cuba there is generally only one winner. 

      “When a person with money meets a person with experience, the person with the experience winds up with the money and the person with the money winds up with the experience” Harvey MacKay

 

http://www.havanatimes.org/?p=121911

[Smoke6]

Prez, my Grandpa used to say that a pessimist is an optimist with experience, so there you go!

[PigFish]

...ahhh, yes! The embargo is the problem!!! -LOL

-Piggy

[Orion21]

Right, so Cuba is the way it is because US companies can't set up . . .

Yet, the rest of the world is free to travel and do "deals" in Cuba, so it must be the USA's fault no one else wants to build tractors in Cuba?  Or anything really? The delusional mind of a person, or people, will never accept responsibility for their issues.  Something external is always to blame. Historically, Communism/Socialism/Marxism has been  extremely successful using the this as a tool to keep the masses compliant.  Look at what's happening in Russia right now.  They are convincing their own people the USA is a direct danger to them at a nuclear level.  They have been running nationwide drills to prepare for nuclear war. 

http://www.wsj.com/articles/russia-revives-nuclear-shelters-as-cold-war-heats-up-1477301408

 

[SCgarman]

9 hours ago, El Presidente said:

The realist in me...or is that pessimist? ....thinks that this US firm just saved themselves a hell of a lot of money without maybe knowing it. 

When doing business in Cuba there is generally only one winner. 

      “When a person with money meets a person with experience, the person with the experience winds up with the money and the person with the money winds up with the experience” Harvey MacKay

 

http://www.havanatimes.org/?p=121911

A blessing in disguise. The Castro regime is set in it's ways, and only new leadership with new ideas will change this.

[PigFish]

36 minutes ago, Orion21 said:

Right, so Cuba is the way it is because US companies can't set up . . .

Yet, the rest of the world is free to travel and do "deals" in Cuba, so it must be the USA's fault no one else wants to build tractors in Cuba?  Or anything really? The delusional mind of a person, or people, will never accept responsibility for their issues.  Something external is always to blame. Historically, Communism/Socialism/Marxism has been  extremely successful using the this as a tool to keep the masses compliant.  Look at what's happening in Russia right now.  They are convincing their own people the USA is a direct danger to them at a nuclear level.  They have been running nationwide drills to prepare for nuclear war. 

http://www.wsj.com/articles/russia-revives-nuclear-shelters-as-cold-war-heats-up-1477301408

 

... or they could just be building another nuclear power plant...!

We have a few Russian members. I would be curious to hear what is being said about this on their level. -Piggy

[Orion21]

I wouldn't be so sure our friends would feel free to express an opinion Ray.  Putin has made his ambitions very clear over the last 16+ years.  His form of Nationalism/Patriotism has entered a new stage of development brought about by the decline in oil revenues that had enabled him to expand his power to unprecedented levels for a quasi-democracy.  He now must supplement what nationalism money can't purchase anymore with direct military and political conflict with the West. It is well known what happens to those who aren't in lockstep with him.  How does this relate back to Cuba? Cuba is what the Soviet Union would have become if not for the fall of communism.  Cuba sees that the more concessions they make to the West the quicker the end to the "Revolution" will come.  How do they save face after all these years?  By not giving in to a couple of upstart Cuban born US businessmen looking to build a factory is a start.  Scrap it!  Screw them and their Capitalist ambitions and then publicize it.  I think the road ahead will be filled with start/stops like the one outlined in the article. 

[vladdraq]

3 hours ago, PigFish said:

... or they could just be building another nuclear power plant...!

We have a few Russian members. I would be curious to hear what is being said about this on their level. -Piggy

Don't expect russian members to criticize too much their politics. Even if they think it...

[NSXCIGAR]

Cuba has shown it's very capable of continuing relatively extreme socialism for decades even without major support from allies like the Soviets and Venezuela. The Castros have proven extremely smart and practical in terms of allowing the absolute minimum amount of market reforms to keep the population from starving, unlike North Korea that would experience mass death if China withdrew it's support. But clearly, the Castros are drawing the line at US investment which would, as many others here have pointed out, very likely be expropriated whenever the regime felt like it, which would probably be very quickly as higher wages, a rising standard of living and productivity created by the foreign investments would become apparent to the masses quickly, threatening the system. 

My opinion hasn't really changed on this topic for many years: Cuba won't change significantly without some kind of revolt/revolution by the masses. It doesn't necessarily have to be a violent one, but it's going to have to be a legitimate one. I also think that the embargo postpones this revolution. Whoever is in charge can continue to blame the Yanquis for their ills and it's a difficult notion for the masses to refute without the influx of information and cultural exposure that the ending of the embargo will provide. 

[PigFish]

8 hours ago, NSXCIGAR said:

Cuba has shown it's very capable of continuing relatively extreme socialism for decades even without major support from allies like the Soviets and Venezuela. The Castros have proven extremely smart and practical in terms of allowing the absolute minimum amount of market reforms to keep the population from starving, unlike North Korea that would experience mass death if China withdrew it's support. But clearly, the Castros are drawing the line at US investment which would, as many others here have pointed out, very likely be expropriated whenever the regime felt like it, which would probably be very quickly as higher wages, a rising standard of living and productivity created by the foreign investments would become apparent to the masses quickly, threatening the system. 

My opinion hasn't really changed on this topic for many years: Cuba won't change significantly without some kind of revolt/revolution by the masses. It doesn't necessarily have to be a violent one, but it's going to have to be a legitimate one. I also think that the embargo postpones this revolution. Whoever is in charge can continue to blame the Yanquis for their ills and it's a difficult notion for the masses to refute without the influx of information and cultural exposure that the ending of the embargo will provide. 

Hear, hear!

I have always proffered that the embargo remains a 'bilateral' agreement, not an imposition of one state on another (read that with some literary license). I honestly don't think that the current regime can stay in power with unfettered access to the US citizenry, not and retain the illusion that the US remains a threat to the people of Cuba.

It is the Cuban people who stand to lose here, and not any business interest if the illusion begins to fall, and the criminal enterprise (communism, or simply the Castro regime) feels threatened.

Communism is based on the power of the State and not the value of the people that make up the state. Our younger generation does not understand communism outside of an academic setting upholding anything other than a utopian ideal. They have never really seen communism! Communists don't mind killing 10's of thousands or 10's of millions of people to make a point, any point about State superiority. It is so much more than propaganda billboards.

It would be pretty easy to arrest a handful of Americans, call them spies, bar US flights and once more create tension between the two countries to blow this whole thing up and go right back to communist 'normal' again.

Call me a pessimist, but I don't trust communists to act like anything other than the criminals that they are!!!

I will be passing on the flights to Cuba for now! Bay of Piggy's, does not have a happy ring to it.

-Piggy

[LGC]

Without the tobacco, Cuba has little draw to many tourists. Under a communist regime, how can any significant changes be made if power is only held by a handful of individuals, and everyone is only looking out for themselves?? If prices on accommodations and attractions keep increasing, infrastructure doesn't improve, and the entire cigar line is pushed toward double banded sticks still plagued with blend and construction issues... how can the local economy truly improve? Conducting business is a 2 way street. If only 1 party truly benefits, the other party is being ripped off.

[clutch5150]

On 11/3/2016 at 0:57 AM, El Presidente said:

The realist in me...or is that pessimist? ....thinks that this US firm just saved themselves a hell of a lot of money without maybe knowing it. 

When doing business in Cuba there is generally only one winner. 

      “When a person with money meets a person with experience, the person with the experience winds up with the money and the person with the money winds up with the experience” Harvey MacKay

 

http://www.havanatimes.org/?p=121911

Must agree with your above opening statement and the closing statement of the article. " And this repeats the age-old mechanism of always trusting in repression as the best safeguard for the regime".

 

Big sigh....

[Colt45]

1 hour ago, Brandon said:

Without the tobacco, Cuba has little draw to many tourists.

Funny, without knowing (obviously), I always figured cigar tourists the minority.