Tissue in cigar boxes?

[Maestroso]

Amigos, anyone know exactly (no guessing) what purpose serves the paper tissue laid inside cedar cabinets?

I always prefer removing the tissue for long-term aging as I prefer my cigars to be in contact with fragrant cedar wood and "brew in a barrel." Do you?

[LordAnubis]

The wax paper you mean?

So that the oils don't soak into the wood and rather stay within the cigar.

[DoubleDD]

So you can dab your eyes when you finish the box. 

[Smallclub]

One use that is always forgotten in these discussions is : a handle, useful to get the whole half-wheel out of the cab, without disturbing the ribbon, so one can inspect all the feet.

[TCContender]

Wrapping paper, like a birthday present to yourself.  Like when the wife buys shoes....

 

[Fugu]

Prime function of the wax paper is to avoid that the sticks stick to the cedar when it excudes resins. The current boxes (no real spanish cedar anymore) do not tend to do this so much, you won't see such very often nowadays. But the formerly used real Cedrela odorata tends to occasionally develop resin drops that can then damage the wrapper.

Apart from that, as SC sais, makes a very useful handle - and finally, to the OP's remark, it doesn't do any harm to long term aging. Better to leave it in place.

 

[potpest]

Prime function of the wax paper is to avoid that the sticks stick to the cedar when it excudes resins. The current boxes (no real spanish cedar anymore) do not tend to do this so much, you won't see such very often nowadays. But the formerly used real Cedrela odorata tends to occasionally develop resin drops that can then damage the wrapper.

Apart from that, as SC sais, makes a very useful handle - and finally, to the OP's remark, it doesn't do any harm to long term aging. Better to leave it in place.

 

Any ideas what they use if it isn't real Spanish cedar anymore?

Sent from my Wileyfox Swift using Tapatalk

[PigFish]

In general the glassine is used to protect the cigars. I too use it to lift the bundle out of the cab. Even with the cab 'broken' I tend to leave it in. It is a small cost to help prevent damage to the cigars and it is effort well spent. MHO. -Piggy

[Fugu]

7 hours ago, potpest said:

Any ideas what they use if it isn't real Spanish cedar anymore?

Sent from my Wileyfox Swift using Tapatalk

No, unfortunately not. I had already been looking for info on that. I tend towards some cheaper type of the mahogany family.

[Fugu]

1 hour ago, PigFish said:

In general the glassine is used to protect the cigars. I too use it to lift the bundle out of the cab. Even with the cab 'broken' I tend to leave it in. It is a small cost to help prevent damage to the cigars and it is effort well spent. MHO. -Piggy

... and correct - technically it's glassine, not wax paper!

[Maestroso]

It's paper of some kind, call it glassline or paper tissue, but it's no wax. So, the consensus of the elder is it's there to protect the cigar from the "cedar" wood. From which it no longer needs to be protected. The side benefit is it allows to lift the cigars from the box. Which is equally if not better achieved using the ribbon, which I personally prefer to keep on the bundle.

Since the air condition is crucial to aging of tobacco and the glassline blocks the airflow, while the absence of it and the contact with wood clearly improve the condition, I still think it makes good sense to remove it for long-term aging and let the wood brew in.

Thanks everyone!

 

 

[Maestroso]

On 24.06.2016 at 3:58 PM, LordAnubis said:

The wax paper you mean?

So that the oils don't soak into the wood and rather stay within the cigar.

One last thing - Lord almighty, do you believe this is still relevant whether the cedar wood is odorata or sticky or not nowadays?

I did notice oil marks on this paper in a couple of older cabs but I wonder if absorption of oil by the wood would be greater at all if the paper wasn't there to block it. The regular paper-covered boxes with ordinary no-wax paper and an inlay of cedar wood inside wouldn't have this protection consideration at all.

[TomF]

You should feel free to do what you want with your sticks my friend, but as far as I'm concerned the Cubans put that stuff there for a reason so I'm just going to leave it be.

Long ashes...

[PapaDisco]

18 hours ago, maestroso said:

One last thing - Lord almighty, do you believe this is still relevant whether the cedar wood is odorata or sticky or not nowadays?

I did notice oil marks on this paper in a couple of older cabs but I wonder if absorption of oil by the wood would be greater at all if the paper wasn't there to block it. The regular paper-covered boxes with ordinary no-wax paper and an inlay of cedar wood inside wouldn't have this protection consideration at all.

You're of the "air is good" aging crowd, whereas I come from the "air is bad" side and so, as Mus said, the semi-permeable glassine helps keep airflow down and oils in.  I also saran wrap or ziplock boxes that are going down for the long haul.  If you don't believe in this life philosophy then toss the paper and leave the lid off your cabs . . . or spread them out on a shelf.  I think that the "air is good" practice only appears to improve aging in the short term because it more quickly mellows a cigar (actually subdues all the flavors), but that it produces dull cigars in the outer years.  But that's just MHO!   Hey, you wouldn't age wine without the cork would you?  

[Fugu]

Actually, air-in- or air-out-fraction, the glassine paper does absolutely nothing in terms on building a barrier against gasses. Neither would it keep tobacco from becoming perfumed by the box or cedar sheet (if sticks do need that...).

It's a mechanical protection.

[Maestroso]

On 28.06.2016 at 5:23 AM, TomF said:

You should feel free to do what you want with your sticks my friend, but as far as I'm concerned the Cubans put that stuff there for a reason so I'm just going to leave it be.

Long ashes...

Not sure how meaningful is a post like that, as the purpose of this thread was precisely to establish that reason. As others helpfully did.

[Maestroso]

On 28.06.2016 at 7:30 AM, PapaDisco said:

as Mus said, the semi-permeable glassine helps keep airflow down and oils in.  I also saran wrap or ziplock boxes that are going down for the long haul.  If you don't believe in this life philosophy then toss the paper and leave the lid off your cabs . . . or spread them out on a shelf.  I think that the "air is good" practice only appears to improve aging in the short term because it more quickly mellows a cigar (actually subdues all the flavors), but that it produces dull cigars in the outer years.  But that's just MHO!   Hey, you wouldn't age wine without the cork would you?  

Hey, Papa, keep your cab lids and corks on. Airflow inside a closed space!  It certainly helps to let the cigars age together and blend flavors in a box. (BTW, tobacco fermentation, which may continue for some time even after boxing, and subsequent aging of tobacco release substances into the air around cigars.) The blending of flavors afforded by enhanced airflow is why we like squared wooden cabs vs. flat paper-covered boxes.

How well do single tubed cigar age in their vaccum and solitude? Nowhere near to a cab, we know that.

Would wine age without air in the bottle? First, it would take ages (a magnum, which has twice less air per 0.75L, ages a lot slower than a bottle) and probably anaerobic aging wouldn't get anywhere at all. Certainly not where people got used to liking over the centuries aging wine.  

 

[Maestroso]

Further to my original post, flat wooden boxes like Montecristo Especial No. 1, Trinidad Fundadores, Cohiba Lanceros and probably other Cohibas, Sir Winston, Partagas Serie E No. 2, etc. have no paper inside the box to "protect" the cigars from the resins of the wood of the box or the inlay of cedar in-between two lawyers of cigars. Same in individual cigar tubes.

Conversely, the same format of cigars in cabinets, which are not organized by layers, like Partagas Serie du Connaisseur No. 1 in the case of lanceros and cabinet-boxes Cohibas, do come with the traditional "cabinet paper" around them. Why have it in cabinets but not wooden boxes?

I see no reason other than the mechanical protection to prevent the round cigar bundle inside a cabinet from rubbing against the wood during transportation and shaking. This problem is of course not present in flat boxes or individually tubed cigars, where cigars have no freedom and sit tightly inside the box or tube.

And so, once the trip is over and the cab is at home, I say thanks to the cab paper and thankfully let it go to age my cigars in wood the way they used to do it in barrels. (Cab lid closed, Papa!)

 

[Fugu]

Maestro, if you know it so well all by yourself, why did you start this thread?

There's a pretty confusion of facts and hearsay, but don't see any avail in addressing that.

Mate, just do what pleases you, but don't pretend to be interested in information.

[Colt45]

7 hours ago, Fugu said:

Maestro, if you know it so well all by yourself, why did you start this thread?

Mate, just do what pleases you, but don't pretend to be interested in information.

Perhaps (s)he's interested in having a discussion, and not simply harvesting information.......

[Smallclub]

7 hours ago, maestroso said:

 let it go to age my cigars in wood the way they used to do it in barrels.
 

 

Habanos don't age in barrels and never did… Barrels are used only for tobacco fermentation, and only for the Cohiba line…

[PapaDisco]

7 hours ago, maestroso said:

Further to my original post, flat wooden boxes like Montecristo Especial No. 1, Trinidad Fundadores, Cohiba Lanceros and probably other Cohibas, Sir Winston, Partagas Serie E No. 2, etc. have no paper inside the box to "protect" the cigars from the resins of the wood of the box or the inlay of cedar in-between two lawyers of cigars. Same in individual cigar tubes.

Conversely, the same format of cigars in cabinets, which are not organized by layers, like Partagas Serie du Connaisseur No. 1 in the case of lanceros and cabinet-boxes Cohibas, do come with the traditional "cabinet paper" around them. Why have it in cabinets but not wooden boxes?

I see no reason other than the mechanical protection to prevent the round cigar bundle inside a cabinet from rubbing against the wood during transportation and shaking. This problem is of course not present in flat boxes or individually tubed cigars, where cigars have no freedom and sit tightly inside the box or tube.

And so, once the trip is over and the cab is at home, I say thanks to the cab paper and thankfully let it go to age my cigars in wood the way they used to do it in barrels. (Cab lid closed, Papa!)

 

Interesting observations.   Sometimes it's there, sometimes not.  I'm used to rational behavior from HSA   What does it all mean??

 

[Smallclub]

8 hours ago, maestroso said:

How well do single tubed cigar age in their vaccum and solitude? Nowhere near to a cab, we know that.

Tell that to Min Ron Nee…

8 hours ago, maestroso said:

probably anaerobic aging wouldn't get anywhere at all. 

It works for pipe tobacco. There are many people who age vacuum tins…

 

 

[Fugu]

15 hours ago, Colt45 said:

Perhaps (s)he's interested in having a discussion, and not simply harvesting information.......

Of course, as you know, I am all for having a nice, even detailed () discussion, but sometimes (as we say) it's the tone that makes the music.

[demer]

I dont know if it matters with cigars but if it is glassine paper than it is acid free. It is used in the art world for archival purposes.