Muhammed Ali - RIP

[Orion21]

It was a very different time when Ali took a stand against going to war.  It was a political and social statement more than anything.  Ali was truly the first loud opinionated black man to make a mark on this country.  He was loud, brash and poetic at times.  His importance to the black community in the United States since can't be underestimated.  He was the first famous black athlete that wasn't just a "Yes, Sir, thank you Sir" type of stereotype.   Love him, or hate him, he was important to more than just sports.  It doesn't really matter if he was "The Best Ever" because his impact went well beyond boxing.  He was a transcendent figure who did a lot of good in his life.

[Ken Gargett]

9 hours ago, wabashcr said:

I don't think you'll find many credible boxing historians or analysts who would put him ahead of Sugar Ray Robinson, Jack Johnson, Willie Pep, Henry Armstrong, or even Joe Louis.  He had great hand speed, a great chin, and quick feet (at least in the 60s).  He didn't have transcendent power, and wasn't very elusive later in his career.  He kept his hands low and got hit a lot.  But he destroyed opponents psychologically, often before ever getting in the ring.  

It's hard to say where Ali ranks as a boxer.  Winning the heavyweight title three times, back when that meant something, puts him near the top on its own.  Most important, influential fighter?  No debate.

i suspect you are on the money when you refer to later in his career. like so many sportsmen, he went too long.

had he retired after say the third frazier fight then we might think of him as a boxer as good as anyone, as well as such an important person. those later years tarnished the boxing legacy somewhat. 

[wabashcr]

i suspect you are on the money when you refer to later in his career. like so many sportsmen, he went too long.

had he retired after say the third frazier fight then we might think of him as a boxer as good as anyone, as well as such an important person. those later years tarnished the boxing legacy somewhat. 

I don't really know how much the Holmes and Berbick losses at the end really stuck to his legacy, as bad as they were. Missing 3 years when he was at his peak did more damage to his boxing credentials. As you said, most fighters stay around too long. Hell, Roy Jones is still fighting and getting knocked out by bums.

By the 3rd Frazier fight Ali's reflexes and foot speed had slowed considerably. He put on some incredible performances in the 70s, but wasn't the technical fighter he was earlier in his career. He had such a great chin that it didn't matter that he was easy to hit. He was on such a higher psychological plane that he didn't have to be a great boxer. To me that's more impressive than the more technical genius types that are usually found above him on all time P4P lists.