Unicos and Monte #2 Are the Same Cigar

[shlomo]

TEB 08 Awesome RASS and BRC

And Lusitanias iirc.

[PaulP]

It isn't uncommon for NC cigar makers to slap different bands on the same cigar, so I wouldn't doubt it if Cuba did the same thing in certain scenarios.

Could you name a few?

[Ken Gargett]

I agree wholeheartedly re wine production. I guess my main supposition is that the more human intervention, the greater the possibility there might be to lose the characteristics of terroir (the flip side is that there are those who feel that what happens in the winery is part of terroir). And also that I'm not sure how many people would embrace wines made as naturally as possible, with the least amount of intervention.

colt, for me, there is absolutely no question that the "winemaker/winery" is part of the terroir. cant be otherwise. so many decisions made by them that affect the wine. even those claiming orange wines (as in natural wines) still influence the wines in some degree, as much as they might claim otherwise.

[Colt45]

Was not targeted towards you, rather towards the approach...

But I even can't really see the point in whether it being a monopoly or not.

I was just making fun of myself

re the monopoly, I don't know if it makes a difference or not - I just sometimes feel it might play a part in peoples minds when it comes to "brand identity" (not trying to speak for others, just sometimes wonder).

So, let's say there is no TABACUBA or HSA - all brands are privately owned with their own factories, rollers, access to tobacco, etc. The Montecristo company and the Robaina company each produce their own piramide. Smokers find them somewhat similar overall. Would we say they are the same cigar? Acknowledge the brand? Chalk it up to the core similarities in the character of Cuban tobacco?

Again, just a thought.

colt, for me, there is absolutely no question that the "winemaker/winery" is part of the terroir. cant be otherwise. so many decisions made by them that affect the wine. even those claiming orange wines (as in natural wines) still influence the wines in some degree, as much as they might claim otherwise.

KG, I don't discount the winemaker idea - I've never really come to a personal conclusion either way, and have no problem drinking many styles of wine

[JC67]

The question then really is this. Were they both good or bad?

I mean what is brand ID really matter? It does not to me... Frankly, I don't believe in it.

Why concentrate on a 'brand identity' if the smoking experience is good or great? It does not really matter then, now does it?

Ultimately, in a monopoly company such is Tabacuba, where brands, rollers and companies have no "company/brand" identity, the cigars, beyond that as individuals will have no "brand" identity.

My guess is that if you pulled 4 cigars 1x M-2, blend them with 1x Unicos and throw in two ringers, you won't have a single person get them right. At most I figure one might get 1 of the 4 with most getting none of them right.

I am just guessing of course but blind tests have shown that cigar board participants either don't know the cigars they claim to know, or that there is no real Cuban cigar brand profile.

Since people often know their own cigars, or they think they do, I will settle for "there is no Cuban brand profile."

I like the thread...!

You only need to check the results of the blind tasting to conclude that most of it is guess work

[Smallclub]

I mean what is brand ID really matter? It does not to me... Frankly, I don't believe in it.

Why concentrate on a 'brand identity' if the smoking experience is good or great? It does not really matter then, now does it?

Of course it matters. There are times when I want a spicy cigar, or a strong cigar, and there are times when I want a "dessert cigar", there are times when I want a "fruity" cigar (Punch , SLR), there are times whan I want something milder, more focused on toasted flavours (Hoyo, Upmann).

I never smoke a Partagas or a Bolivar or a RA in the morning and even in the afternoon, and I never smoke a Hoyo or a SP after a heavy meal w/ wine and liquors.

You believe there are no real cuban profiles? Take all the campañas (belicoso) from recent production — BBF, RyJ beli, SP beli, La Punta –; if the difference in profile doesn't jump to your tastebuds, either you need more experience, either you've chosen the wrong hobby.

As for the blind tests results,

1/ what was the average experience of the participants;

2/ since when the fact that a group of people is mistaken in identifying a product shows that this product has no actual identity?

[Fugu]

While browsing the web, just stumbled across this quite informative short article in Cigar Journal regarding the influence of 'terroir' on tobacco.

Paul

[CanuckSARTech]

agree with that - especially about the influences on the terroir. so many scream about their terroir but then there are so many ways to tinker and nudge it. of course, people so easily forget that had the walls and dykes been put in many many decades earlier, allowing the land to drain, bordeaux would be nothing more than a swamp. so much for so-called terroir!

...I imagine Bordeaux swamp is part of the terroir

It's fish poop. I taste fish poop. Mmmmmm!

[CanuckSARTech]

Frankly, this conversation comes up once a year or so. Someone that doesn't taste something makes a generalized statement / accusation that the rest of the world is making things up.

I taste what I taste. I don't taste what you taste. Who am I to disagree with your tastes or preferences? That said, some people CAN taste some very distinct and certain things. No different than some people need glasses or are colourblind and can't see things, or have hearing issues and can't hear certain frequencies / tones - some people's senses are better tuned or capable than other people's. This doesn't make my sense of taste any better or worse than anyone else's - not better or worse. Just...different.

Granted, I don't know how many taste what with their cigars. I don't know what the percentage is of people who can taste some or large amounts of differences. Hypothetically speaking, let's say it's roughly an 80/20 split. For what it's worth, in talking to people, I'd say it's like this - frankly, if you're not tasting various flavours in cigars, then what exactly are you doing it for? I smoke cigars for the tastes and flavours. I don't smoke for prestige, for perception, for power, as a "class signifier", etc. I smoke for the flavour blends and relaxation. Otherwise, you're just burning an expensive weed for no reason really, and burning through money. If you DON'T taste anything special, why continue?

So, I taste variances / blends in cigars. It's not unreasonable to say that the vast majority do as well.

Prove us wrong as to what we taste.