Opinions encouraged

[Andy04]

So I have bought from a distributor for the past few years now. All in all, i have probably puchased 100 over boxes from this single distributor.

The sticks all taste correct and look as expected. All tripple capped, the 1966 have a great pig tail. The sublimes are... well sublime. The 520 shown are not excessively oily, but still look great. Choix are my staple. This is a standard box of choix.

All boxes shown above have been open and played with hence the sticks are not alligned properly. They were when initially opened.

The only issue I have is that the boxes do not have a barcode.

I am 99.99% sure of their authenticity, but that is not enough for me. How else can I verify their origin?

All opinions are welcome. Please let me know if you need more picture.

[Destino30]

What an all-star lineup! The issue that you have I suspect is one that is shared by many, many people who buy from distributors and retailers who remove the bar code. I don't fancy myself an expert at identifying fakes but the things that I've read to look for all seem to suggest that these are legit . Maybe show pics of his factory and date code stamps for further verification.

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[Andy04]

The issue that you have I suspect is one that is shared by many, many people who buy from distributors and retailers who remove the bar code.

My concern here is that the bar code has not been removed. It has never been printed.

The date stamps all look good. Will post some pics later. The 1966 box does not have a date stamp, from memory they were on the cardboard packaging.

[Destino30]

Sorry - I didn't catch that. That would definitely concern me. I'll leave this one to the more experienced folks in this group. I would love to hear their take.

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[Andy04]

Sorry - I didn't catch that. That would definitely concern me. I'll leave this one to the more experienced folks in this group. I would love to hear their take.

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Eg... have a look at the 520 or the choix's. The area where the bar code should be is empty.

Firstly, the hologram on the seal stickers are perfect.

Secondly, I highly doubt that anybody would ever counterfeit ERDM. May as well counterfeir Jose L Piedra!

[Colt45]

Gray market boxes typically have the bar codes removed so that the ditributor of origin can't be traced.

[Lasabar]

The only other time I've seen the Barcode not printed is when Rob put a fake vendor to the flames a couple months ago.

By no means am I a sage, but those tax stamps were see through in the white parts like these are as well.

Hopefully someone who knows more can chime in.

**Edit**

I'll add my pics showing the white on tax stamps not very see through

With and without flash

[TranSonHoang]

Could you please check whether they have the transitorio stamp underneath the green one? If they do then they are likely to be authentic.

[Pixa]

Gray market boxes typically have the bar codes removed so that the ditributor of origin can't be traced.

Not really a point doing that if you leave the Cuban health warning sticker.

You should still be able to get the serial numbers from the seal with a magnifying glass.

[archosaur]

You should still be able to get the serial numbers from the seal with a magnifying glass.

Agree with this. Your 2012 ELs should have the latest/greatest warranty seal with the microprinted serial numbers, it doesn't look like these are obscured but its hard to tell from your pics. I think it is usually easiest to see under the word 'ZIGARREN' in the lower right hand corner.

http://www.cubancigarwebsite.com/info-packaging.aspx#Union_and_Warranty_Seals

[westg]

99.99% ...not enough ..lets hope your never up for a paternity test I think they look fine if anything they look to neat and clean ..box branding , packaging etc

[Laynard]

The Sublimes have a new warranty seal over the original one. That is odd and would raise a flag for me. It almost seems they are reusing old boxes, putting a new, incomplete warranty seal on them, and loading them with suspect (I.e., not original) cigars.

Edit: Nevermind. I just looked at CCW and they state "There is a transition period between 2009 and 2011 when both the new & old seals are affixed." There is even a picture that greatly resembles what you have going on. I guess I have nothing to add here. But, the lack of barcode printing (not being removed at a grey market level) is still odd.

[garbandz]

You have a Cuban health stamp and a Malay distribution stamp on boxes with no apparent barcode.

Boxes sold outside Cuba would not have the Cuban health stamp.

Every Cuban tax stamp has a barcode,that you have no evidence of them being printed is a red flag.

Is the Malay stamp a legitimate distributor ? Maybe a larger pic of that would help.

I would not buy any boxes like these..........

[Andy04]

All the box codes check out.

But.... there are no serial numbers printed within the seal. I know that this is a huge red flag.

But once again, the sticks look, taste and feel as they should. The bands all look good with proper embossing on both the normal and LE bands, the LE sticker on the boxes are also embossed.

The distributor is solid and reputable. They are based in a small tax free island off Brunei. But obviously don't purchase from PCC.

[Lotusguy]

Eg... have a look at the 520 or the choix's. The area where the bar code should be is empty.

Firstly, the hologram on the seal stickers are perfect.

Secondly, I highly doubt that anybody would ever counterfeit ERDM. May as well counterfeir Jose L Piedra!

Of course ERDM are faked - it's just not as common.

Barcodes never printed - HUGE red flag. Barcodes removed - SOP for grey market.

[wolfain]

I think you're starting to have doubts?

Why are the serial stickers blank? I don't understand this, it's a kind of a red flag, am sure you have asked your seller about this?

I own 4 boxes of sublimes, and all of them never had had a 'new' serial sticker pasted over the <=2008 era serial stickers.

That being said, if you're 99.99% sure, then I guess there's nothing to worry about.

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[Destino30]

Andy04, sorry for the novice question, but if the distributor is reputable as you said have you contacted them and asked about the missing bar code info? If it's their regular practice they've probably fielded that question already.

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[wolfain]

Anyway, I'm curious as to why it's blank actually. Now that I remember, there's about 7-8 other locations on the seal that's micro printed.

Can you check those locations and see if there's actually a number there? I'm guessing it's probably.. Blank but who knows. See attached pic

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[Andy04]

Nope, the serial is not anywhere.

I will attempt to peel off a second label to see what the original looked like.

I had never even contemplated asking my distributor, so I will visit my distributor in the next few weeks.

All your comments, suggestions and opinions are greatly appreciated. So please keep them coming

[Andy04]

I will try and get a close up of the questionable post 2010 seal to see if it is identical

[Sprouthog]

Anyway, I'm curious as to why it's blank actually. Now that I remember, there's about 7-8 other locations on the seal that's micro printed.

Can you check those locations and see if there's actually a number there? I'm guessing it's probably.. Blank but who knows. See attached pic

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You beat me to it. New warranty seals have micro printing in various locations listing partial and complete serial numbers that can be checked with the habanos website. These new seals will make it harder to counterfeit the warranty seal but you'll still need to go through your checklist to confirm they are legit. Not fool proof, everything could appear legit with the box, box codes, paperwork and bands but the cigars are fake. It may come down to smoking or deconstructing, not my first choice, a cigar to know if it's real or not.

There are some really good fakes out there being sold by "legit" vendors whether they now it or not especially in the gray market.

I recently viewed an updated anti counterfeiting video on the Dr Joe Show. He does a really good job updating you on the newest anti counterfeiting measures, including Warranty seals, and walking you through the checklist of fake or fine.

[jp1979]

what did the vendor say about this? any update?

[Havanaaddict]

Does it look like it was never there or could it be that it was wiped clean with some type of rubbing alcohol?

[wolfain]

Does it look like it was never there or could it be that it was wiped clean with some type of rubbing alcohol?

It was definitely never printed on. You can't wipe off laser printing with rubbing alcohol...

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[Andy04]

Sorry have been traveling extensively over the past few weeks.

what did the vendor say about this? any update?

He agrees that it is peculiar.

I will meet with him sometime over the coming few months and go through his entire stock to see what else I can find.