polarbear Posted January 4, 2015 Share Posted January 4, 2015 My cigar room is my living room. I febreeze my couch every Saturday morning so it doesn't smell. I have cathedral ceilings and plenty of windows in the room so it's rarely too smoky in there. At worst I find there's a residual smoke smells if I've had 3 full bodied NCs in one day, so I just light a "smokers candle" I picked up on a Pipe Smoking website (for $8) and that tends to mask the smell after 45min-1 hour. I'd love a dedicated room sealed off from the rest of the house but I think I'll have to wait til I can afford to build a place from scratch before that happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chriswalker Posted January 4, 2015 Share Posted January 4, 2015 I built a cigar room about 6 years ago now...installed a 250cfm ex.fan and a 200 cfm intake fan into the 16 x 12 foot room with a walkin in the corner...i read midthread about ex.fans and just wanted to explain the importance of an intake/fresh air with it...if you pull major air out of any space their is the possibility of reversing flu action on gas burning appliances...if your house has any...but also for proper air exchange and less lingering cigar smell...their is many ways to safely offset the negative pressure created by larger fans...if the opportunity is their while under construction it would be a good idea...good luck with the build amigo... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanuckSARTech Posted January 4, 2015 Share Posted January 4, 2015 I have a 16' W x 13' D x 7.5' H room in the basement that is half finished. It's on my 2015 agenda to at least get the proper HVAC installed and work toward finishing the room off. Tony - some thoughts... I know we discussed discussing (LOL) about some of the set up stuff for that room for you. But one big thing comes to mind with the above. If the room itself is half-finished, and you still need to get the HVAC and whatnot done....awesome. One big thing to consider then is to get a one-way baffle installed in the dedicated HVAC ducting for that room, and make sure to negate the installation of a cold-air return from that room as well. That way, only clean heated/cooled air goes into the room, and it minimizes smoke return into the rest of the house. Then, if you install a 160-180 CFM fan into that room to exhaust outside, and run it when you're in there and smoking, it's a "negative pressure" room in essence, and only clean air from the house can get into it, but absolute minimal smoky-air can intrude on the rest of the house. So, one-way baffle in HVAC ducting. Then, 6" ducting for 160-180 cfm bathroom/exhaust fan. And use those little foam insulators for underneath the wallplates of your light switches and outlets (every air leak matters). Even consider a good seal / insert for around the door itself. Also, with the paint, I didn't do it for my garage, but I was told by my local contractor buddy (whom I'm working with on re-doing out bathrooms currently) that if you use the green / blue moisture resistant drywall (which is normally used in bathrooms), and then use a very good bathroom quality primer and paint, that it will HEAVILY cut down on aromas lingering around in the room afterwards. That "regular" drywall, mixed with a cheap primer and paint, will just absorb the aromas much more easy. Hell, he even said that the flatter the paint, the more it will absorb. My garage is just painted in flat (whereas the interior of my house is all in eggshell, with the trim in semi-gloss [which is the normal pairing]), because it was spare of what I had at the time. His thought makes decent enough sense that, since I badly need to repaint my garage anyway due to an exploding-pop-can-and-spaghetti-incident (don't ask), and various gasoline and oil stains on the walls, I'm planning to do that in the spring; to re-paint with a quality bathroom primer (even though it's already "primed"), and then paint with a good quality eggshell paint, which is designed for bathroom moisture resistance and high resistance to aromas too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sam Posted January 4, 2015 Share Posted January 4, 2015 This fan set up works well for me. Note the ceiling vents. I have curtains to close off the room from the upstairs and the rest of the floor to keep negative pressure in the bar area. ---sam. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forgop Posted January 4, 2015 Share Posted January 4, 2015 I happened to throw out the idea to my wife about separating the portion of my man cave and installing an exhaust system and she was all for it. I was quite surprised. Once I get the appropriate weather come spring to clean out the area, I'll start with before/after pics once it's complete. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cooper669 Posted January 4, 2015 Share Posted January 4, 2015 I happened to throw out the idea to my wife about separating the portion of my man cave and installing an exhaust system and she was all for it. I was quite surprised. Once I get the appropriate weather come spring to clean out the area, I'll start with before/after pics once it's complete. IT"S A TRICK! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tdlfoto Posted January 4, 2015 Share Posted January 4, 2015 Tony - some thoughts... I know we discussed discussing (LOL) about some of the set up stuff for that room for you. But one big thing comes to mind with the above. If the room itself is half-finished, and you still need to get the HVAC and whatnot done....awesome. One big thing to consider then is to get a one-way baffle installed in the dedicated HVAC ducting for that room, and make sure to negate the installation of a cold-air return from that room as well. That way, only clean heated/cooled air goes into the room, and it minimizes smoke return into the rest of the house. Then, if you install a 160-180 CFM fan into that room to exhaust outside, and run it when you're in there and smoking, it's a "negative pressure" room in essence, and only clean air from the house can get into it, but absolute minimal smoky-air can intrude on the rest of the house. So, one-way baffle in HVAC ducting. Then, 6" ducting for 160-180 cfm bathroom/exhaust fan. And use those little foam insulators for underneath the wallplates of your light switches and outlets (every air leak matters). Even consider a good seal / insert for around the door itself. Also, with the paint, I didn't do it for my garage, but I was told by my local contractor buddy (whom I'm working with on re-doing out bathrooms currently) that if you use the green / blue moisture resistant drywall (which is normally used in bathrooms), and then use a very good bathroom quality primer and paint, that it will HEAVILY cut down on aromas lingering around in the room afterwards. That "regular" drywall, mixed with a cheap primer and paint, will just absorb the aromas much more easy. Hell, he even said that the flatter the paint, the more it will absorb. My garage is just painted in flat (whereas the interior of my house is all in eggshell, with the trim in semi-gloss [which is the normal pairing]), because it was spare of what I had at the time. His thought makes decent enough sense that, since I badly need to repaint my garage anyway due to an exploding-pop-can-and-spaghetti-incident (don't ask), and various gasoline and oil stains on the walls, I'm planning to do that in the spring; to re-paint with a quality bathroom primer (even though it's already "primed"), and then paint with a good quality eggshell paint, which is designed for bathroom moisture resistance and high resistance to aromas too. Thanks for the post Keith. I'll look into the one-way baffle. There is a run of ducting in the ceiling (between main floor joists) already there. I'm wondering if having that ducting in the ceiling will potentially port cigar smoke into other areas of the house, and if it wouldn't be better to place it lower in the room? Do you really think a 180cfm fan is sufficient? Have you done a calculation based on the dimensions of the room? If so, what is the recycle time? I've read elsewhere about using the moisture ready drywall and taking good care to properly seal joints and use good paint, so that jives. I always buy premium paint anyway (typically Benjamin Moore Aura) but good to know about the finish type - will keep that in mind for sure. I'm planning to not have any light fixtures in the ceiling (vapour leak) and use a combination of wall sconces and lamps instead. Haven't really made many final decisions regarding final looks so we'll see what happens. General idea is to have a wall of cabinetry where I can mount a sink (plumbing exists to a wash tub), place a small bereave fridge under the counter and have some storage, and maybe mount a TV on top of it. This should leave lots of space for couches, chairs, etc. If I can get the HVAC and plumbing sorted this winter I'll be happy. That way I can frame over the spring, get electrical done, then drywall and finish over the remaining summer and fall and be ready for winter 2015/16. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chriswalker Posted January 4, 2015 Share Posted January 4, 2015 The system that you and canuck have been discussing would work but in my opinion it could be improved a bit...if you were thinking of going with his suggestion i would consider having the ex.fan interlocked to the furnace...so that when the ex.fan turns on so does the fan on the furnace...with one supply air outlet in that room and no return air like canuck said...IMO i dont think you would need the back draft damper(baffle)...with my set up being very similiar to your dimensions i will say that 250 out and a intake fan bringing 200 cfms of air directly from outside will handle 2 smokers just fine...any more people and it starts to fog up... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tdlfoto Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 The system that you and canuck have been discussing would work but in my opinion it could be improved a bit...if you were thinking of going with his suggestion i would consider having the ex.fan interlocked to the furnace...so that when the ex.fan turns on so does the fan on the furnace...with one supply air outlet in that room and no return air like canuck said...IMO i dont think you would need the back draft damper(baffle)...with my set up being very similiar to your dimensions i will say that 250 out and a intake fan bringing 200 cfms of air directly from outside will handle 2 smokers just fine...any more people and it starts to fog up... good info - thank you! as i'd like to be able to host 4-5 guys on occasion, i wonder if having one higher capacity fan on a dial, or two lower capacity fans that are controlled separately would be better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edwhatever Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 This is my 2 cents of complete bullshit. I believe in economies of scale, air purifiers/ventilation systems do the job, but to be more effective/efficient, they need some help. 1) From observing how smoke travels while having a cigar indoors, it is safe to say that smoke travels in the general upward direction. Therefore to remove smoke as efficiently as possible, have your air purifier/ventalization system on the upside/celiing. Having it facing down from the roof will capture the most smoke as quickly as possible. Why is that important? 2) Many times we talk about getting rid of the residue smell. Where did it come from to begin with? cigars (no ****). Cigar smoke, while not being sucked out of the room, lingers in the room. Lingering cigar smoke gets absorbed into walls, carpets, fabrics, chairs, anything with pores big enough (even dry walls). It takes much more effort to remove those particles once absorbed, than to have it efficently removed from the room in the first place. Creating ventilization directly on the celing is not only more effective, you will in turn need a less powerful motor, which creates less noise, also eliminating unnecessary draft (affects burn of cigar, and tasting). 3) Consider Ozone generating vs. Negative ion generation. My top 3 choices of air purifiers. Rabbit Air Minus A2 (odor removal customization) CA editor's top choice, Sharp Plasmacluster (most popular in Japan, Japan is the world's top smoking population btw) also CA editor's unannounced top choice, IQAir (this tower unit is powerful, not astetically obtrusive, used in hospitals during SARS). I own 2 of the 3 above. OZone generators are an overkill, if you can remove the smoke before it lingers for too long, you won't have to use this heavy weight class equipment. Strategic placement: Place it higher up. Smoke rises, you're not smoking sublimiation of Carbon dioxide (dry ice). 4) Garage conversion. Size matters, the larger your garage, the more powerful your heating needs to be. Captain obvious much? More importantly, insulation is key. If your garage doesn't have insultation, or is semi insulted, go get youself some insultaion, and stuff them in your dry walls. Day and night's difference. Heaters: 110V vs 240V. Don't bother with 110V heaters, don't waste your money. 240V requires rewiring, not worth the effort for most people. Kerosine heaters, will kill you. Propane heaters, the way to go. Go to your local hardware store website (I went with Home depot), and look for a Forced Air propane heater. 30,000 - 60,000 BTU is what you need. Look for the models that look like it came from the back of a Batmobile. Carbon monoxide poisoning? Research and judge for yourself. I have no concerns. Propane patio heaters, These heaters are what most patios use, if you can fit this in your garage, your golden since there is no wind. 5) Questions to ask yourself: - Do I absolutely need carpeted floors? - Do I have other options besides a fabric couch? - Can I put the Air Purification unit somewhere higher up, besides leaving it on the floor and expecting it to be a miracle machine. - What can I do to create ventilation from the celing? - What is something that I can do to create better insulation in my garage - Whatever modifications I choose to make, is it worth my effort? How much more comfortable of a space will it be for me to enjoy my cigars? If my smoking space requires too much maintenance, why can't I just put a jacket on and smoke in my garage, with a heater? I can install a big ass fan out my window. I can sit beside it and have my cigar, and the smoke will be sucked out right away, no one will ever know I smoked in the room. But when I take 2 hours of my time to enjoy a cigar after a long day's work, do I really want to sit beside a loud ass fan with a draft in my face, can't even smell/taste what I'm smoking? Or do I have to tip-toe around my wife, scared that in one flip of a switch, she's going to flip out cause she caught a whif of cigar smoke? Brothers of the north, we shall overcome! TL DR: Ventaliation beats odor removal. Strategic placement of ventalation vent for effective/efficient smoke removal. Lingering smoke creates challenging oder removal situations. Strategic placement of AIr Purification unit will help. Insulation beats heat generating. Its not about how powerful your heater is, it is about keeping the heat in. Make ventilization from the top. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chriswalker Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 My ex.fan has a speed controller on it...i do adjust it often...if you go bigger than 200 i would suggest you check with a local hvac contractor to ensure that you have the proper sized fresh air intake to accomadate all of the fans in your home...range hood, bath fans and smoking fan...beside the earlier stated issues of reversing flues their can also be issues created by air being drawn into home threw small seapage that can cause mold...it happens when a newer home (r2000) has a negative pressure and cold outside air is drawn in threw small breaks in the vapour barrier which condensates and molds...these are worst cases...dont mean to make it scary...just be safe...good luck amigo...i will post up some pics of my room when i get this new forum bugs worked out... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PapaDisco Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 For a well ventilated smoking room I would have assumed one would need a fan size closer to what you get with a kitchen range hood: 800-1200CFM? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGC Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 Don't guess. Make your calculations based on volume and desired air exchanges. Maintain a slightly negative pressure on the chamber. Control all potential sources of air infiltration to prevent affecting the rest of the house. Condition the incoming air to the chamber. Use variable speed motors. Use a manometer to set up the room. Don't just guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanuckSARTech Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 Tony, what Chris said sounds good too. Like I said before, what worked for me, might not work for you. I have that 180 cfm fan. Works perfectly. Have had 5 people in that garage smoking cigars, no issues. But also - it's a garage. While I have an insulated and heavily sealed garage door, there's still small air leaks there. So, I have no fresh air intake. It finds it's own way in. With it simple like that, yes, I have it easily in the slightly negative presure that I wanted (no smoke gets inside the house). Me myself, I might not use such a high CFM intake and exhaust fan coupling for in an interior room like that. Gotta think - this room is mostly going to be used in the wintertime. Doing it with this high CFM intake and exhaust just means that the room is going to get freezing cold quick. My thought with the baffle was to close it off to smoke backflow, but that the fan would draw in warm air from the ducting and the house otherwise (such as around the door jam/seal, so the room would still have a somewhat fresh and warm sense of air. The house HVAC itself will have that fresh air intake to it, so the house will have fresh air coming into it, and being mixed with the warm air. It all depends on what will work best for what you want. Me myself, for an interior room, I'd want warmth. But, for your uses and wants, 100% (or as close as possible) fresh clean air may be more desired. Also, understood what you're saying about the light fixture. But, you can get a vapour barrier seal for around it. And/or, you can also get draft-sealing versions of that Great Stuff foam. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
airtrade Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 Wow, there is a lot to this! I think I'll just head south for a while. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chriswalker Posted March 24, 2015 Share Posted March 24, 2015 Back in January I said I would post some pics...figured it out today for another thread...thx for looking... 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shlomo Posted March 24, 2015 Share Posted March 24, 2015 Chris! Been too long bro, how you been?! We need to have a chat!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chriswalker Posted March 24, 2015 Share Posted March 24, 2015 Doing great...got married in Vegas last summer to my girlfriend...took me 5 yrs...lol...we are having our first child... a little girl come august...very excited...how's things? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iahawk36 Posted March 24, 2015 Share Posted March 24, 2015 My wife and I are building a new house, and I'm trying to negotiate a smoking room as we live where it's too cold to smoke outdoors 3-4 months a year.... So far, the negotiations are not going well.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeremy Festa Posted March 24, 2015 Share Posted March 24, 2015 My wife and I are building a new house, and I'm trying to negotiate a smoking room as we live where it's too cold to smoke outdoors 3-4 months a year.... So far, the negotiations are not going well.... All negotiations should be carried out sitting next to each other on the couch, immediately after you do the dishes and in conjunction with you providing an hour long foot rub. God speed Sent from my iPhone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Borgy Posted March 24, 2015 Share Posted March 24, 2015 My humble smoke room and humidors I do share it with my pet Carpet Snake I will expand the humidor to one larger as the collection grows. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Borgy Posted March 24, 2015 Share Posted March 24, 2015 Sorry guys with the photos still a rookie all round. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SmittyinAZ Posted March 26, 2015 Share Posted March 26, 2015 Didn't want to deal with the smell and all that goes with trying to get rid of it. Made this out of a shed in the back. I apologize if these show up sideways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SmittyinAZ Posted March 26, 2015 Share Posted March 26, 2015 Yup, sideways every time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scroats Posted March 27, 2015 Share Posted March 27, 2015 Man that is one nice shed! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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