Anyone had problems with Heartfelt?

[CurtisEss]

So I bought four pounds of 60% RH humidity beads from heartfelt ($140), and when I received them and charged them up, the humidity in my humidor started to rise. This was weird because I was switching from 65% beads. I was curious about this, so I put some in a glass jar, sealed it, and measured the equilibrium humidity. It was 70%.

I have no use for 70% RH beads, so I contacted heartfelt to tell them about this, and I got no response. And again. And again. Has anyone else had this problem? Also, is there some way that I can adjust the equilibrium RH of these beads to 60%? I have a feeling I'm not going to get a replacement.

[LeafLover]

I have a mix of 65 rh and 60rh. I have more 65rh so if the humidity gets bl higher than 65, it will absorb and rh won't get higher than 65. So if anything, my logic is my rh will always be between 60-65.

As for David, email him. I believe he was on vacation for a week in the last couple weeks. I'm sure he's swamped with emails.

[El Presidente]

kens and Diana's e-mails go straight to my junk folder. I have no idea why. Started 6 weeks ago and although I "unlock them" it continues to happen. I just know to check. Reminder to self to get our IT guru to look at it.

Anyway, point is give the guy a call. If he has a history of good service then there will be a reason why.

[Maplepie]

x2 on the contact thing.

x2 on the misunderstanding thing

however, playing around with a bit of Kitty Litter and 70% bead mix should help you out. Kitty litter (calcium silicate as opposed to silicon dioxide) is notorious for absorbing humidity rather than releasing it (like silicon dioxide does, as well). you can always use that to your advantage. But make sure to keep them close AND separate. don't want to ruin potentially good 70% beads!

[Smalls]

I have two pounds of 65% beads in a 150 quart cooler which is twice the recommended amount from what I understand. I don't ever get much more than 60% out of them which is fine with me.

[subport]

I have a pound of 65% in my cooler. When I charge them it goes up to 68-70% no matter what. I mean if only few drops of distilled water I added > same thing happens. I just keep it out for a night after adding water then goes back to the cooler. It gives me 65-66%ish and I don't care too much about it. ;-)

The one pound is in two 1/2 part. I only charge one of them at a time. Next time the other one. And found it out really no more than few drops needed.

I have never tried to contact them though so no info on that side. Sorry bro.

[PapaDisco]

Any chance you fully saturated the beads when you charged them?

[CUBANO]

Had the same problem with service next time I will purchase from cigarmony.

[FalseCast]

My hypothesis is that you might've added too much water from the start. I've had a pound of 65% beads in my cooler for a few months now and I've yet to add any water. They've held 64-65% from the day I received them.

Perhaps you might consider removing some water. I've heard of guys spreading their beads out on clean cookie sheets and drying them in the oven at 200 degrees Fahrenheit for a while. I'm not sure of Heartfelt's position on this procedure, however.

[Hafner32]

I know from doing a lot of searching on the internet before I bought my heartfelt beads, I read multiple times that the beads arrive fully charged and you are not supposed to add water to them on delivery. I recently grabbed some 60% beads for a few 150ct coolers. I added 2 bags into the cooler each containing 1 pound. I didn't add any water but rather just transferred my boxes from my humi which were being stored at 65%. The coolers have been rock steady at 61% humidity for 2 months now without having added any water.

I would look to dry the beads out and start over from the beginning as it seems you currently have too much water

[MPS]

Maybe your hydrometers are wrong. I never had a problem with his beads or his customer service. Give him a call.

[ShortFatHokie]

I recently (within the last month) bought a pound of the 65% beads. I did add a couple of drops of distilled water to them when I first set up the coolidor, but that was it. My coolidor is running a steady 65%-66%.

[shlomo]

Maybe they sent you the wrong beads. It happens. Poor service and communication is the pits however.

[CurtisEss]

Any chance you fully saturated the beads when you charged them?

I've got a lot of experience using other 65% RH beads in my humidor, so I can say for certain that I didn't over saturate them. They seem to maintain 70% at several levels of dryness too. I've also checked my hygrometer.

I will say that my 65% beads have been awesome. My humidor is usually 65% +/- 1% with those.

[potpest]

I had this problem, ordered a pound of 65% for humi and half pound of 60% for a ready to smoke box. Both the 65% bags have been spot on at 65 but the 60% are bang on 70%. Tried drying them out and re-charging and same result. Never bothered complaining but not sure i'd order again.

[CurtisEss]

Also, I will give them a call. That is a good idea that I abandoned after not seeing their number on their webpage. It should be easy enough to find though.

[Smalls]

I know from doing a lot of searching on the internet before I bought my heartfelt beads, I read multiple times that the beads arrive fully charged and you are not supposed to add water to them on delivery. I recently grabbed some 60% beads for a few 150ct coolers. I added 2 bags into the cooler each containing 1 pound. I didn't add any water but rather just transferred my boxes from my humi which were being stored at 65%. The coolers have been rock steady at 61% humidity for 2 months now without having added any water.

I would look to dry the beads out and start over from the beginning as it seems you currently have too much water

I have never received beads that were charged. Every time I have received them the entirety of the beads are bright white. I have never seen any clear beads when transferring them. I wonder what the discrepancy is?

Also, I know the first time I over saturated my beads. 3-4 tablespoons isn't very much water for a pound of beads. It was almost like my brain wouldn't let me believe that 80-90% were supposed to remain dry.

[PigFish]

First may I say that I have nothing to do with HI. Second, may I say that I am a purveyor of beaded desiccant for cigars use. Third; my post is designed to be educational, not commercial or anti-commercial.

Please… People… there are no such things as 60-65 or 70 percent beads!!!

Beads are a desiccant. They are more specifically categorized by industry as sorbents or adsorbents.

Sorbents behave according to their nature as hygroscopic materials and they are characterized (visually) by their charted performance, established empirically, referred to as an isotherm.

Isotherm is a general term, meaning one or fixed temperature.

The isothermal chart of a desiccant can tell you many things about it. Used as a comparison, you can see that different desiccants behave differently when the adsorb different matter. Some desiccants, known as molecular sieves are designed to filter any molecule smaller than their pore diameter. In this way industry can refine specific components out of a pool of media.

We generally use desiccant to buffer water vapor in our humidors and this is where we come full circle.

You see 70rH desiccant is meaningless… Why? It is meaningless because relative humidity equilibrium must specify a temperature to be true to an isotherm. Your desiccant, in other words, will either hold more or less water depending on the temperature. Since temperature affects the energy of water and that means that water molecular activity is higher at higher temperature, the polar bonds of liquid water and the molecular bond of water attached to a surface of a desiccant will certainly change. Typically, as water heats up, the bonds must be stronger to hold it in place. Therefore the warmer the substrate, or the water, the less the desiccant or hygroscopic material will hold.

In order to 'recharge' a desiccant in industry, we bake it. This agitates the water to such a degree that it wishes to be free in the atmosphere rather than bonded to a substrate. This is the reason why water evaporates more easily at higher temps, tobacco dries at higher temps, and desiccants dry at higher temps…

So… What temperature was your desiccant when you tested it? How about the water?

Since most purveyors of desiccants for cigar use "allow" some misunderstanding of them in order that their mystery can have magical powers over the consumers of such products, I don't feel to bad hearing that someone is pissed off at one of them. On the other hand, I empathize with them because they could be totally innocent of "wrong doing" by those that use the product and have no real clue as to how they work and why…

So, I ask again! At what temperature did you do your testing?

Next on the table is the question of water content. Don't tell me that you added water to them…! I mean if you added water to them what makes you think that they will then reproduce a specific equilibrium moisture content specific rH number?

This 'myth' of the fixed rH bead is an ongoing battle with me. There is no such thing… Frankly, here again I come down on the purveyors of desiccant products for allowing this myth to continue.

Folks, they are not magic!

Let me ask you a few questions to see if you are getting this at all… If you dry box a cigar, what happens, or is supposed to happen? It loses water, right?

What happens if you leave a bowl of water in a dry environment? It dries out right?

What happens if you leave any hygroscopic material in a dry environment? It dries out right?

So where the hell did the idea come from, that you can dry out a desiccant 'bead' and it will continue to provide the same equilibrium moisture rH number than before you dried it?

IT JUST DOES NOT WORK THAT WAY FOLKS… YOU HAVE BEEN DUPED! WHETHER BY INTENT OR BY MISTAKE, YOU ARE LOOKING FOR MAGIC BEADS, NOT BEADED DESICCANT PRODUCTS!!!

Just like your cigar, the dryer you let them get, the dryer they will be. The dryer they are, the less they will drive a specific environment to a desired rH. Hell, if you get them to dry to say 55rH at 70dF and you put them in with your cigars, guess what! They will steal water from your cigars just to satisfy the laws of physics and satisfy equilibrium. GUYS… THIS IS WHY THEY ARE CALLED DESICCANTS…!

So, before you hammer HI about their beads, not their customer service, but their beads… Do you even know that you are working with when you buy them? Do you know at what temperature they were at the time they were acclimated to 60 or 65 or 70 rH? Did they give you any isothermal data, like how much water you have to add to them if they get dry?

You say a spritz… really… Please quantify a spritz…

Please forgive me for the lecture. I ask you visualize a guy that is pissed off because his cigar does not draw and then picture him putting the foot in his mouth and hold a match to the head and puffing away…

Again, I am not talking poor customer service or the point and click mentality of both the internet consumer and vendor. The broader point is that all of us should think twice about being critical of a product that we misuse or don't understand.

Vendors… they should not support or allow to be supported the myths about their products just to sell more or them. Vendors ask for these problems when they fail to educate their clients and allow hearsay and myths to drive their sales…

My 2 cts… -The Pig

[Maplepie]

Piggy,

I am hardly a polymer chemist. Rather, a synthetic one.

By my colleagues in the polymer field do attest that surface area and gaps should lead to well regulated two way humidity stability. I've floated my double about it before to a decent amount of certainty and they've said it's in the realms of possibilities.

Only catch is you'll need water-dessicant balance. This cannot be achieved by simple dessicants and simple silicon dioxide. But rather, a complex gel like substances with water binding sites.

Xikar makes gels like that but damn, they're hefty.

All this research just becomes useless ever since boveda came out.

Anyway, that's just my addition, there. It's quite likely that heartfelt can contain a primitive version of these polymers.

Addendum:

Piggy: tried to PM you. Seems to be full

Sent from my Q10 using Tapatalk

[subiemech]

I have 65% spread out in 2 bags in both of my coolers. Rh stays at 65-66%(temp depending) in both coolers. I add water maybe once every 2-3 months, depends on the season. Smalls is correct, only 3-4 tablespoons per pound. That comes straight from HI website. I love them. I am almost convinced I can get rid of my hygrometers, but just cant seem to do it.

[polarbear]

I placed on order from HI a few years back and it seemed to get lost in transit

8 weeks after my order was shipped I contacted HI about it they told me they'd resend my order

I never heard from the again after that

I asked a couple of times what the problem was and got silence

The beads never turned up but it turned out I didnt need them anyway as my wine fridge holds a pretty stable 65%-ish RH anyway.

I'm still out of pocket but couldnt be stuffed chasing it down when HI wouldnt return my emails

[LGC]

They should be used at a drier condition initially. Only add water in very slow increments until the desired humidity level is achieved. Just buy some kitty litter and save money.

[Smalls]

I wish I was smart enough to understand anything PigFish typed....

[PigFish]

Piggy,

I am hardly a polymer chemist. Rather, a synthetic one.

By my colleagues in the polymer field do attest that surface area and gaps should lead to well regulated two way humidity stability. I've floated my double about it before to a decent amount of certainty and they've said it's in the realms of possibilities.

Only catch is you'll need water-dessicant balance. This cannot be achieved by simple dessicants and simple silicon dioxide. But rather, a complex gel like substances with water binding sites.

Xikar makes gels like that but damn, they're hefty.

All this research just becomes useless ever since boveda came out.

Anyway, that's just my addition, there. It's quite likely that heartfelt can contain a primitive version of these polymers.

Addendum:

Piggy: tried to PM you. Seems to be full

Sent from my Q10 using Tapatalk

[email protected]

I have read some on polymer adsorbents. I cannot say that I know much about them. I have to wonder about their bond strength, and percent moisture content abilities verses their surface area. I am curious to see a contrast to amount of water stored verses the ability adsorb or disorb it. I am also curious about the hysteresis of such a substance. I may just do a little reading this weekend, as you have peaked my interest. I am always looking for a better mousetrap!

The issue with the prepackaged "miracle" humidifiers is certainly cost and additionally the core substances link to an isotherm. I have yet to learn of a product who bidirectional nature is not liked to temperature. If you are aware of substances that behave more like a fuel cell than a desiccant I would be grateful if you could enlighten me or email me some data. Perhaps I am wrong but these prepackaged 'solutions' are redolent of a salt solution variant. As such (an assumption of mine) they too are dependent on temperature to display a published ErH.

I prefer automation! That bias does not preclude me from optimism over new products or novel ideas, but understanding the cigar community and industry as I do, I tend to be wary product descriptions and white papers due to the preponderance of evidence of the deliberate omission of pertinent data to these items that has been an established industry norm. These omissions fuel the myths and the misuse and understanding of products.

While I understand the proprietary nature of new products, my nature provides me with a hefty skepticism.

My money is on the "packaged solutions" being a combination of a membrane and a salt solution! If that is the case I believe that they too are tied a temperature for a published result. That being the case were are right back at full circle. I know of no substance that delivers a constant rH ErH at a range of temperatures.

Well, I know one! That is a well regulated, engineered and controlled, automated humidor!

Thanks for the input! -Piggy

[manelson05]

Only issue I've ever experienced is when over saturated, I leave about 30-40% of beads white and I use a spray bottle to saturate, and recharge when RH drops.