Wineador Project..

[Rufio]

Hello everyone,

Joined this forum pretty recently and I have been browsing the threads the last couple of days. I am looking to start a Wineador project pretty soon (probably after Christmas) and I just wanted some input.

Right now it seems the general consensus is the NewAir 280E or 281E is the way to go? Are there any other brands or models that work well?

Also, when it comes to humidifying the unit are beads going to suffice? I was looking at humidifiers like the Cigar Oasis.

I am just trying to do as much planning as I can ahead of time. Any thoughts or comments would be much appreciated!

DJ

[Larsy]

Heartfelt beads and a Vinotemp 28 are what I use. Couldn't be happier

[Brickhouse]

I can certainly vouch for the Heartfelt beads as well, as a good humidification source.

I did a mixture in my wineodor. I have beads on all levels for stabilization, and I have a cigar oasis in the middle.

However, with my Cigar Oasis, I took out the green foam and replaced it with Super Absorbent Polymer Crystals (SAPs).

Been working great for about 6 years now.

[Rufio]

Brickhouse - so you use both Heartfelt beads and a Cigar Oasis? I was planning on putting beads on all levels as well.

Quick question: I am a college student so buying boxes is slow going haha but I do have a few. Does a wineador have to be filled to a certain capacity, like a desktop humidor has to be, for RH stability?

Thanks for the replies!

[Brickhouse]

I think you'll find that it's very common to place some tubes or bags of beads on different levels of humidors even with active humidification. It just helps stabilize things.

Obviously there are a few factors which determine the need for it, such as air flow and size of fridge. But I don't think you can go wrong by adding a few tubes every level or so just to balance things out. I know most everyone I know does.

As for the other question. A full humidor will be more stable, simply because the amount of humidification within the boxes and cigars. So when the door is opened and closed it becomes easier for the system to return to the desired RH because it's getting help from the already humidified cigars/boxes. If there are fewer boxes/cigars in the fridge, then humidification will escape easier and it will also take a bit more effort/time for the system to return the fridge to it's desired RH.

Having said that....I really don't see it as an issue. Buy what you can afford, stock what you can, and let the system/beads regulate your RH. Whether there is 1 cigar in there or 300, the system/beads will be able to maintain your desired RH. You just need to be careful about how long you're leaving the door open and such.

[PigFish]

Rufio

There are two competing philosophies around about wine coolers as humidors. I seem to be one of the very few purveyors of one of these philosophies, which puts me in the minority!

I see this somewhat like living in the middle-ages, trying to explain to the Catholic Church that the earth is not flat and it resides neither at the center of the universe nor our solar system. In this analogy, people see what they want to see. If they think they have succeeded then there is no reason to test and analyze their alleged success. It is therefore not uncommon to find folks who are happy in their ignorance! This is true today as it was in the middle-ages on many topics. The actively cooled cigar humidor is one such topic.

The two approaches to building climate-controlled humidors are approximately as follows. Method one is to follow a lot of people doing the same thing and therefore emulating their successes as well as failures. Many of these folks are completely ignorant of their failures! The other is becoming an expert yourself and proving that your system works within the realm of the parameters you have set.

I am one of the few pioneers in engineering climate-controlled humidors with demonstrated test results. I trust not in cigar rumors or myths. I test and as a result of testing, I boast a superior end product.

Humidor performance is therefore like beauty. The precision of the unit one builds is in the eye of the beholder. I prefer proof! The choice is yours.

The simplest philosophy is built around using less than precision instruments to see success where the average climate appears to satisfy those that build the projects. I can see how these work, in that the systems rely on refrigeration systems set for wine control, where the cigars are forced by the cooler maker to an unnaturally low temperature and the cycle of the refrigeration is ever-present in room temperature. In the sealed system model, where no active water source is present, the actual water content of the system does not drastically change and therefore, over the course of hours or even days, the system finds an average, via an ever-present long wavelength cycle and it produces smokable cigars until something changes. This is not how I define a working humidor. This does not define either stability or control. Many here would argue the point by saying that they are happy with the performance of such devises. Who am I to say they are wrong?

I have largely pioneered the precision, proven approach. I post data logs of my projects all over this site. With the exception of the very few that I have encouraged to purchase data loggers, I am the only member here that does not mind posting the performance of my humidors to prove my engineering works.

The question then for the new humidor maker is, “Which one are you?” Are you a believer, follower or a fact finder?

I build electronic controlled humidors for stability reasons. I don’t build them to refrigerate cigars. The equilibrium moisture content of tobacco changes not only with rH but temperature as well. Knowing this, as I have done years of research on the topic, and adding it to my 30 years of smoking experience, I have concluded that the closer one can keep his cigars to his perfect norm, the more consistent his smoking experiences will be.

Consistent cigar storage then is my goal and when your ambient conditions range as mine do in my home that is far from an easy task. It cannot be done with pre-programmed wine cooler controller and a few pounds of beads. Yes, as stated earlier, I believe some folks are satisfied with their long waveform average storage. They says so on sites such as this one every day. These systems don’t work for me, not over a long lifespan, which defines how long I can potentially keep a box of cigars.

I data log humidors almost every day. Of course I run a small precision humidor business.

My humidors are neither based on guesswork nor are they cheap to build. What they are based on is a proven track record of performance.

I have posted this particular chart here a few times. This is an empty humidor! If you humidor project cannot maintain 5 or so cubic feet of air stable when it is operating, then it cannot keep your cigars stable over years of storage. That is my philosophy.

The next is the same humidor with about 30 boxes of cigars, where you can notice the change in performance of rH characteristics as the 30 boxes take longer to change in temperature. This is a critical test where the outside temp reaches about 83dF. This is my lab actually and not my home as I let it change with the ambient conditions.

It does make me wonder if anyone else will take a few thousand dollars of cigars, put them in an 83F room and leave them in one of their projects!!!

If you take one of my humidor and put it into actual living conditions for most middle class folks, where the range in temperature is about 68 to 76F, you can see the performance lines of my humidor is for the most part flat with a little noise.

Many systems can produce average results tested over long cycle periods. You could test your desktop humidor over the course of a day and say that it was 60F at night and 80F during the day, so therefore it has an average of 70F during the day!!! If that is how you want to keep your cigars that is okay. What it does not represent however, is stable cigar storage!!!

Best of luck on your project. –the Pig

[canadianbeaver]

I have never commented on your post Ray, mostly because a) I don't have the attention span to read it; b. I don't understand it; c) I did not have the equipment to participate.

I now have come over to the other side on all three counts. I store my boxes in a wine fridge with both temperature and humidity control. For back up info I have small digital gauges on the top and bottom shelves. No beads, humidity things etc.

When a box has less than 5 cigars in it, I use the presentation shelf at the top. If I smoke a cigar and it feels a bit on the dry side, I open the lid a crack and keep that way.

I guess what I am trying to say is like you, I take a very active role in what goes on in there... even with my limited know-how.

[Hiroshiro]

I do the beads with one pound at the Bottom and Medium tubes at each level. Right now with Weather I don't need to have them plugged in and I"m maintaining a good 68F 65% RH. But again my Wineadors are completely filled to capacity but very happy with the setup without an Oasis

[Rufio]

Thanks for the quick responses everyone! I really appreciate your replies and input. I will be slowly putting the equipment and materials together in the coming month and I will try my best to post updates. Maybe even post a build thread.

I don't think that I am going to go with a Cigar Oasis. Ill just save that money and put it towards another box purchase! Any recommendations ? Haha

[Hiroshiro]

Well if it can only be ONE box....

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La Escepcion

[canadianbeaver]

While we are on the topic of DIY, I found a S.T. DuPont lighter at an antique market in Palermo, Sicily a couple of weeks ago. It sparked up and was only 50 euros, so I brought it home. On the ST Dupont site, there is an owner's manual if you can believe it.

I went there and followed the instructions to bring my find back to life. The trick is there is a secret button you push and the extra flint comes out.

http://www.st-dupont.com/media/pdf/mode-d-emploi-briquet-ST-DUPONT.pdf

And here she is...

CB

[Hiroshiro]

While we are on the topic of DIY, I found a S.T. DuPont lighter at an antique market in Palermo, Sicily a couple of weeks ago. It sparked up and was only 50 euros, so I brought it home. On the ST Dupont site, there is an owner's manual if you can believe it.

I went there and followed the instructions to bring my find back to life. The trick is there is a secret button you push and the extra flint comes out.

http://www.st-dupont...t-ST-DUPONT.pdf

And here she is...

CB

Wow awesome! Good find

[Rufio]

Hiroshiro - I actually just saw a video review of that cigar down by Ajay Patel. Now only if I could find them..

Canadianbeaver - Great find! On top of the wineador I am looking for an St. Dupont torch lighter. My wallet is going to hate me this Christmas.. hahaha

[canadianbeaver]

Hiroshiro - I actually just saw a video review of that cigar down by Ajay Patel. Now only if I could find them..

Canadianbeaver - Great find! On top of the wineador I am looking for an St. Dupont torch lighter. My wallet is going to hate me this Christmas.. hahaha

Be very careful... lots of good fakes, including packaging and inside materials. The one above is actually a cigarette lighter. I have a ST DuPont minijet and I love it!

[Rufio]

That was the model I was looking for! Hopefully Christmas and Thanksgiving sales permit.

Thanks everyone for the wineador replies once again!

[PigFish]

I have never commented on your post Ray, mostly because a) I don't have the attention span to read it; b. I don't understand it; c) I did not have the equipment to participate.

I now have come over to the other side on all three counts. I store my boxes in a wine fridge with both temperature and humidity control. For back up info I have small digital gauges on the top and bottom shelves. No beads, humidity things etc.

When a box has less than 5 cigars in it, I use the presentation shelf at the top. If I smoke a cigar and it feels a bit on the dry side, I open the lid a crack and keep that way.

I guess what I am trying to say is like you, I take a very active role in what goes on in there... even with my limited know-how.

I am pleased to hear this Lisa! I would love to think that I have had some role in moving you from a lesser interested party to a greater interested party.

I am sure that my posts are for a minority of members. I figure 7 out of 10 find reasons such as you have stated not to read my lengthy posts about humidors. I would further estimate that there are more than a few reasons people don't read them. These reasons will run the gamut from opinions about me which are self-aggrandizing and self-promoting, to just plain full of horse manure! I do push the envelope on guru legends and myths, and in the years that I have spent on cigar forums I have learned that white sheep are not often turned to black!

I figure that there is a small percentage of people that I really affect with my humidor posts. I view my climatology posts two ways. One, is direct humidor science and the other is the smoking evidence that I have acquired about water vapor content in cigars and the smoking experience. In that mix of readers there are I am sure a group that are just entertained. Yet there is another group, those that if not directly affected to work on or change their ideas about cigar storage, are at least somewhat inspired to learn and experiment with percent moisture content and the smoking experience.

I am encouraged to think that I have influenced some, even if it is very few, to enjoy a greater smoking experience because of my ideas and posts.

Oh, nice find the lighter by the way. I love ST Duponts and I have several. I used to carry one everyday and therefore use it everyday. It was a beautiful Punch Habanera series Dupont that was stolen from me. I bemoan the loss every time one brings up Dupont lighters. To think some a-hole is using my Punch Dupont to light his crack pipe, really pisses me off!!!!! -LOL

Thanks for reading and responding. Your friend, Ray

[stukibuilt]

I just finished getting my wineador stable. New Air 280e with Forrest's drawers, 2lbs of beads distributed throughout with 4 hygrometers.

Makes sense here in Florida considering I'm more worried about temperature than humidity. No need for an Oasis at this point because I'm so watchful.

Could it be better? Sure. Do I need better considering my environment and stock? Nope. I'd love to build a true active humidor one day, just not feasible right now.

I don't think you'll regret going with a wineador now, and if you outgrow it and your storage needs change you can always make something more precise for long term boxes.

I know overthinking it held me back and now I'm more than happy I just decided to pull the trigger.

Sent from my mind using telekinesis and Tapatalk.

[Optic101]

I just finished getting my wineador stable. New Air 280e with Forrest's drawers, 2lbs of beads distributed throughout with 4 hygrometers.

Makes sense here in Florida considering I'm more worried about temperature than humidity. No need for an Oasis at this point because I'm so watchful.

Could it be better? Sure. Do I need better considering my environment and stock? Nope. I'd love to build a true active humidor one day, just not feasible right now.

I don't think you'll regret going with a wineador now, and if you outgrow it and your storage needs change you can always make something more precise for long term boxes.

I know overthinking it held me back and now I'm more than happy I just decided to pull the trigger.

Sent from my mind using telekinesis and Tapatalk.

Congratulation on your new build.

If your are happy then it is what you need.

[stukibuilt]

Congratulation on your new build.

If your are happy then it is what you need.

Thanks, Optic. I wasn't trying to hijack about my own build nor do I mean any disrespect to those who are more knowledgeable than I on the topic, but I know what it's like to be a broke college student (or broke because of years worth of student loans... Ha...) and I think it came out pretty nice for what I paid all things considered .

It is like Legos putting it together and it isn't as bulletproof as a fully custom active system, but that doesn't mean it's not a good place to start for someone who can't afford to go with a custom cabinet. I just followed the advice on here and on other forums where I know the information is worthwhile.

I may make a mistake or to but if you are hypervigilant you can keep there from being a catastrophic loss of stock.

An analogy would be building a Honda Civic into a track car. It will never be a Corvette or Ferrari, but you can make it keep up with one until something breaks. At that point it is also a much cheaper fix as well... Ha ha ha.

Sent from my mind using telekinesis and Tapatalk.