Need assistance/suggestions

[jangoman88]

Hello all, I currently have a 150-250 ct humi that Im having issues bringing the humidity up in it. I've followed the seasoning instructions that others have posted and also inside currently I have a boveda pack in the top tray...70% one, and in the lower half I have a cup with beads in it with 70% as well.

Problem is it will not go above 52-55% humidity and I've tried multiple hygrometers and even used them in my current smaller desktop and they all read within 1-2% of each other in my desktop, so im ruling out that out.

Basically looking for other suggestions in trying to get the humidity closer to 60-65%. I was thinking of buying another plastic cup of beads that I got from my local shop and seeing if that helps. I'll try and take some pics of the beads and to get the general size of this humi.

[Colt45]

Just to be very clear-

If that's happened here, I imagine it's been dealt with and put aside - no need to bring it up. If it happened elsewhere, it should be left elsewhere.

For me, I agree with forgoing the packs and simply putting a dish of distilled in the humidor. Also, if you haven't already, double check the seal.

[Colt45]

.....just don't want to take any abuse for suggesting something that has worked for me.

I understand.

no hatin', just participatin'....

[LordAnubis]

Yep, put some distilled water into the Humi. Yellot has the right idea. The only thing i did differently to his advice was i got a clean tea towel soaked it in distilled water, and then put that in the container that had the distilled water (leave the towel mostly in the air, not submerged in water). This just gives more surface area for evaporation of the water and works a little bit faster. At no point should any wet surfaces touch the wood in your humidor, so just look out for that.

EDIT: Ohh and CHANGE the cloth every two days, to prevent any mould build up etc in the wet cloth. just put a fresh clean cloth in there, wash the the one you take out, hang it out to dry and then you can use the same one two days later.

[PigFish]

I may be guilty of using a condescending tone... but I don't think I have called anyone an idiot here in a long time!!! -LOL

I am joking of course.

Mate, what you are witnessing is that your humidor is dry. This is likely due to the fact that most hardwood is dried so that the carpenter can use it without the fear of too much warpage. If your humidor is a quality one then some amount of water can be reintroduced to the humidor without it warping and breaking up.

I have always believed the wiping water method a bad one. As a general rule, assuming that you don't know what materials are in another man's humidor, one could be giving bad advice giving the wiping method, but it has worked for many.

The key here is to have a little patience. The wood will work, in its own time to adsorb water vapor. If you do this too quickly, you may find layers of wood fibers swelling while others are stiff and rigid and actually deform your new humdidor.

As noted previously, you simply need to add more water to the system. A plate of water is just fine for the job.

I am going to add a few additional notes. Put the humidor in a warm place. The warmer water, excited by the heat will attempt to add more free water vapor into the open space. I don't think you need to buy additional "wetting" products, but most people underutilize desiccant products and you may find that you need more of those but I would remove those currently. Desiccant buffers, like beads are primarily taken from the dehydration and refining industries. Mine are! As a result, you may well be loading your beads with water because they are designed for the job, while the wood is not taking as much water as it should. While this may seem a little out of whack if you understand equilibrium relative humidity, it is the understanding of hysteresis, and that it varies from hygroscopic substance to substance that gets me to bring it up. Work with one substrate at a time! Work only with your humidor and water now and get it to where you want it.

Take a look at your current ambient conditions. Is it 25 rH in your house? I mean if it is too dry in your home currently, you really may be fighting a losing battle here. When conditioned air is that dry, the environment is working to take water from everything, you, your furniture, your plants, your wood doors and windows... everything. Try getting yourself a humidifier. I have a couple of automatic ones and they keep Lady Piggy's allergies in check when the house gets too dry and it is good for my cigar storage as well.

Lastly, watch it closely. It is better to have cigars dryer than wetter. MHO. It is much harder to get water out, without active dehumidification than to put water in.

Cheers. -the Pig

[jangoman88]

thank you all for the suggestions, so here's what ive done since I got the Humi.

I originally had it in my basement, I dont have a hygro to tell exactly what the outside RH is, and I had the bowl of distilled water in it for about a week ( I actually forgot about it) and it seemed the appropriate size for it at the time. I have the plastic container of beads in the bottom, it has a tray and on the tray on left side i have a small boveda pack I believe is 70% and then I have another pack on the right side thats also 70%...figured that would bring up the RH inside beyond the 50-55% that its been at. This has been for at least 2-3 weeks and really hasnt moved from that range.

On a side note, my B&M guy told me on my first Humi to take a brand new clean sponge and get it moist with distilled water and wipe the insides down as to have them damp, not soaked, and then put the cup of distilled water that he said to heat in the microwave. I did that and it seemed to to work and that humi holds really well.

I didnt do that with the new one as ive been reading between this site and another one...not to wipe the inside at all because of other issues that can occur.

So thats where I am at

[PigFish]

Look at your humidor as a membrane, where the membrane itself has the ability to hold water.

What is the humidity of the room you keep it in and what is the temperature of the room?

[jangoman88]

Its in my basement that isnt finished. If I had to guess without putting a hygro in there I'd say the temp is 60-66 RH im not sure and wouldnt want to throw a number out. My other humi is perfect , Im wondering if i should start over in a way and get that boveda seasoning pack. and then make sure i have the right amount of beads.

[PigFish]

Are all of your hygrometers attached to your humidors? If no, take one out and put it in the room!

If you are right about the room at 60-66rH then open the humidor to the room! Why screw with a process that nature will perform for you for free?

I feel that 60 dF and 66 rH is probably too wet (for my taste) but if that satisfies you, and it is consistent you need little more than a box to hold your cigars, not a barrier from it! Is this what you like or is it not, that is the next question?

-the Pig

[jangoman88]

Are all of your hygrometers attached to your humidors? If no, take one out and put it in the room!

If you are right about the room at 60-66rH then open the humidor to the room! Why screw with a process that nature will perform for you for free?

I feel that 60 dF and 66 rH is probably too wet (for my taste) but if that satisfies you, and it is consistent you need little more than a box to hold your cigars, not a barrier from it! Is this what you like or is it not, that is the next question?

-the Pig

Pig im sorry i meant to say 60-66 degrees in terms of temp, not RH...I will take one out one of the hygro's and see what it reads after a day or so for the RH in the room.

[jangoman88]

what temp/rh do you usually like your sticks at? just curious

[PigFish]

what temp/rh do you usually like your sticks at? just curious

First, when I am talking humidor science, I am talking facts and when I am talking preference, I am talking personal opinion. On the subject of humidor science and experience I consider myself an expert. On the preference side, I am an experienced smoker, whose opinion is no more, nor no less valid than any others'.

I like my cigars at 58-60rH at 69-72dF. I make climate controlled humidors and sell control products. Cigars are unaffected by small, short duration changes and don't experience most small changes at all when left in boxes in a well regulated humidor.

While I don't always use it, I own NIST certified sensors. That means that when I say I know what my numbers are, they are pretty damn close to accurate.

The problem with preference numbers are that they are largely a matter of taste for one, and largely a matter of incorrect data for another. As far as hygrometer calibration is concerned, the response curve for hygrometers typically, is neither straight nor parallel to the actual humidity curve and is subject to further fluctuation as a result of the temperature probe that it is measured against!

I have yet to see one post that they tested their hygrometer in the specific solute for 60rH, for example, and put the sample in a water bath at a constant temperature. If you wish to calibrate your hygrometer to any meaningful extent and make it accurate, this is what you need to do! I just use a certification facility!!! Good sensors are pretty reasonable and easy to come by today. I use 1.6 and 1.8 rH sensors that I feel are damn good for the money!

What this means to the typical smoker, is that an actual correlation of two smokers coming together on a fine point of rH and temp numbers is like the two of them discussing which one is better at choosing Lotto numbers! Use the numbers a guidelines and nothing more. Emulate if you wish, but don't substitute them for YOUR OWN EXPERIENCE!

Personal preference then, is really a matter of your cigars with your instruments as mine are with my cigars and my instruments. Don't take any of them to heart except your own.

Once you have your numbers post them up.

-

[jangoman88]

Mr Pig, I appreciate the post. I really enjoyed reading that and lots of good info. I am always curious to see what others preferences are. I am new to smoking so I havent found my area yet of what I like, currently ive been smoking mine at or near 65 rh give or take based off my cheap hygro

[PigFish]

Mr Pig, I appreciate the post. I really enjoyed reading that and lots of good info. I am always curious to see what others preferences are. I am new to smoking so I havent found my area yet of what I like, currently ive been smoking mine at or near 65 rh give or take based off my cheap hygro

There are lots of neophytes on the forum. I write for any that take an interest in humidor science and need help in the field. I like to emphasize that I am not a guru!!! As an anti-guru, believing that they create havoc in the endeavor, creating myth and following junk science, I make an emphasis on following ones own path. Mentoring is fine and helpful, but blind following, as I myself have been guilty of long ago, has lead me down a path of wasted time and wasted resources.

Don't feel compelled to condition your cigars to the likes of another because you hear some wild notion of aging that cannot be proven. Try some different conditions yourself and see what water content does to your cigars. Since you asked, I prefer them on the dry side.

I have been known to throw a box of coronas, yeah I am dating myself, on the back seat of my truck and smoke out of that box for two weeks or longer. I am not suggesting you do this mind you, I am only saying that I have. I have pulled cigars out from under my seat in my truck, ones that might have gone through 140 dF temperatures for weeks, cut them carefully and enjoyed wonderful smoking experiences from them! Do I suggest you store your cigars this way; NO, but having had the experience, I know just how good a dry cigar can smoke?

Like many cigar boards this place is a good place for ideas and mentoring. I would suggest however that you sift everything, and I mean everything through a BS filter! My writing should be treated as no exception!!

Thanks for the compliments, the pleasure is all mine.

Happy smokin' -Mr. PIggy

[Skyfall]

I wanted to add something regarding the beads in a cup, Ray please correct me if I am wrong.

For the maximum efficiency for the beads to work at their best potential, surface area is the key. Meaning the surface area of the beads that the air comes in contact with . Increased surface area = increased efficiency. So if you have beads are in a cup, you have very little surface area of the beads in actual "full" contact with the air, not allowing them to perform at their best potential. Increasing the surface area in a mesh bag, perforated tube/container or in a single layer in a large surface area tray, you will maximize your beads efficiency and let them work at their max potential.

[PigFish]

I wanted to add something regarding the beads in a cup, Ray please correct me if I am wrong.

For the maximum efficiency for the beads to work at their best potential, surface area is the key. Meaning the surface area of the beads that the air comes in contact with . Increased surface area = increased efficiency. So if you have beads are in a cup, you have very little surface area of the beads in actual "full" contact with the air, not allowing them to perform at their best potential. Increasing the surface area in a mesh bag, perforated tube/container or in a single layer in a large surface area tray, you will maximize your beads efficiency and let them work at their max potential.

Right on the money my friend!

[jangoman88]

Skyfall, thank you! I know it sounds stupid but I did not even think of it that way. I was basing it off the limited space you have already and that the cup they came in would be sufficient, I will look for something to open it up and spread them out and see how that works this weekend.

Mr Pig, I agree with the filter part. I've been reading up on these forums and a few others and gather the info and in a sense make my own determination off it. I do have a few people I chat with outside of the forums for info and im sure I drive them nuts, but they are great resources.

[Skyfall]

This is how everyone learns, Ask away, you won't be driving anyone nuts. Back in 2010 and early 2011, I probably had 100's of conversations with Ray. He knows his stuff!!! I've learned from him and now I've built several very efficient and successful humidors, on small and large scale (temp and humidity controlled).

[jangoman88]

Skyfall that sounds awesome!

so heres what I did over the weekend. I put the beads into a different plastic container that has more surface area for them to work. I took out the hygro that was inside to see what the RH of my basement is versus inside and within a few minutes of it being out it jumped to 63% haha! So what Im going to do is check it when I get home today and see what its sitting at then put it back inside my humi and see what it adjusts too.

And thank you both for all the info, It helps to ask the noob/stupid questions and get a real answer. I've done some searching using google and stuff but i like the interaction with others as well.