Wineador Problems

[ZinZan]

I'm having a problem with my wineador, firstly is the the water build up from the condensation at the bottom of the chiller. I was trying to emulate as much as i could Bart's wineador project without going too technical and i'm not a technical person.

So during the build stage, i installed a water drainage of sorts to collect all the condensation, which was quite effective.

And then installed some PC fans for air circulation. Ran it for 15 minutes every for 4 hours.

I don't want to drill any holes so i just ran through the door, it was tight enough seal it was keeping a good RH. The problem is the container (in the first picture) that i was planing for the water reservoir was filled up every 2 days. And i didn't see point of emptying reservoir every 2 days, its just wasn't practical for long term storage. So what i've done now is put a big container at the bottom and at the top, fill it up with kitty litter but i still have to switch it around every 7 days. This is still not ideal because if i was away for a long time then the whole thing would be flooded and secondly i cant put my fans for air circulation because the container takes the whole space.

FYI, Malaysian weather is mid 30s to low 40s Celsius all year round and about 60-70 plus RH. I'm running a thermoelectric unit and with the current set up my wineador is quite running 20-21 Celsius and 61-63 RH. I have racked my brains i cant seem to find an ideal solution, can somebody advise me what i'm doing wrong or is this normal with thermoelectric?

Cheers

Zain/Zinzan

[onemoretime]

I let the water drain into the hole on the bottom the way it was designed and use beads in bags on both levels for humification. I also, using a hot glue gun, lined the sides with 2" spanish cedar and have spanish cedar shelves purchased form an online vedor who custom makes them. The water accumulates in a drain pan internally and is evaporated and dispursed from the heat of the condensor. Have had it for 3 years now and never an issue. Hope that helps.

I also use oust fans for circulation.

Sorry but dont have pics of the shelves.

[Livo]

Do you have the drain plugged? I left mine unplugged because I feared condensation and still didn't have any problems maintaining rh even in the dry winter.

[ZinZan]

My drain hole has a different placement than the usual, it's at the middle not at the bottom of the fridge. I had to plug it, it couldn't keep RH at an acceptable level. It was always at 55-58 The only way for me to keep the RH above 60 was to plug it.

[polarbear]

I had similar issues in the 35c and 80% rh NT conditions

I put a 1 pound bag of kitty litter at the back of my fridge to absorb any condensation and left my drain hole open to drain any exess once the KL is saturated.

I havent had any dramas since

[ZinZan]

Thank you all for your replies.

[nikesupremedunk]

This is the exact reason why i stopped using the wine cooler. Beware, the RH you are getting might not reflect the actual RH inside the cooler. When I had my cooler draining to a bowl of kitty litter, it overhumidified all my cigars. I would instead unplug the power, seal up the wineador, and get some heartfelt beads. Temperature doesn't matter if you freeze your cigars, and having a stable RH is much more important than having low temperature in the way your cigars smoke. I replaced the shitty wineador I had for an air tight tupperdor that can hold 3x as much, and I've never been more satisfied.

[ZinZan]

This is the exact reason why i stopped using the wine cooler. Beware, the RH you are getting might not reflect the actual RH inside the cooler. When I had my cooler draining to a bowl of kitty litter, it overhumidified all my cigars. I would instead unplug the power, seal up the wineador, and get some heartfelt beads. Temperature doesn't matter if you freeze your cigars, and having a stable RH is much more important than having low temperature in the way your cigars smoke. I replaced the shitty wineador I had for an air tight tupperdor that can hold 3x as much, and I've never been more satisfied.

That was my theory in regards to the temp but everybody was saying that temp was equally important. That's why I bought the chiller and I had a good deal with on the chiller. In all honesty I don't taste any diff between the temp controlled n non temp controlled.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

[PigFish]

I recently posted some information on this topic of rH, temperature and cigar conditioning in another thread.

People can continue to believe in false theories or they can look at established facts generated from the tobacco industry.

This does not cut to the point where all percent moisture content moves in the cigar affects all people. I like my cigars fairly dry, so a moist cigar is a ruined (at the time I smoke it anyway) cigar smoking experience! If you are not that sensitive to the condition of your cigars, call it a blessing and don't sweat it. Tastes are different and lets face it, some people will smoke cigars that you won't. I feel the same way about conditioning. Dryer cigars taste better to me. I therefore control all aspects of the cigar environment to keep them that way.

I would likely take on a large percentage of the home made humidor crowd by telling them what they are doing wrong. Piling a large percentage of beads into a container and using them passively, using the wrong controls, not understanding the science or the processes and certainly not testing the final result is the reason that many if not most of these projects fail.

Lets understand something of water and water vapor. A pool of water will work endlessly, albeit slowly at lower temperatures, to saturate the closed space above them to 100 rH. A pool of water in a sealed humidor is a really bad idea.

My humidors recycle water and I change the water, but it usually runs a couple hundred CC's.

If your humidor is generating tons of condensation, quite frankly this is a good indication it is working. It is also an indication that you are doing something wrong as a humidor designer. The problem that you have is likely two fold. First you are attempting to control a heat differential with your environment that is over 10 dF. This is causing the unit to run a long time. Long dwell cooling times equals a lot of drying action in your humidor. This means a lot of condensation.

Just so you have an idea, one of my projects with about an 8 dF differential will run the cooler about 90 seconds at a time. This moves the rH down to about 55 or 56 rH and then back to 60-61 in a couple of minutes.

High rH in the humidor in the first place is another reason for the excessive run off.

Ultimately poor control and inaccurate monitoring is the main reason why people think their system either works or does not work. An accurate data logger is the only way to be sure!

You can build these systems yourself and have them work. You have to be willing to do the homework or pay someone for doing it for you or they won't work! Building them from scratch is a lot of effort and if you don't know the theory and cannot do the work you might as well unplug it.

I hate to be so harsh on the subject but running a small business where I help develop these systems for people, I have learned that you must have the commitment of time and some capital, and a mentor or experience failure, at least by my standards.

I am currently building a new project humidor that I will performing a lot of tests on. When I get around to it I will publish some results of what life in a temp controlled humidor is like when you use passive rH conditioners with active refrigeration. It is not what most people think it is!

Rather than BS about it here and now, I will run the experiments and publish the results. Seeing is believing as they say.

Good luck on your projects. -Piggy

[CanuckSARTech]

....I would likely take on a large percentage of the home made humidor crowd by telling them what they are doing wrong. Piling a large percentage of beads into a container and using them passively, using the wrong controls, not understanding the science or the processes and certainly not testing the final result is the reason that many if not most of these projects fail...

Bring it on, El Cerdo!!!!!!!

[nikesupremedunk]

I recently posted some information on this topic of rH, temperature and cigar conditioning in another thread.

People can continue to believe in false theories or they can look at established facts generated from the tobacco industry.

This does not cut to the point where all percent moisture content moves in the cigar affects all people. I like my cigars fairly dry, so a moist cigar is a ruined (at the time I smoke it anyway) cigar smoking experience! If you are not that sensitive to the condition of your cigars, call it a blessing and don't sweat it. Tastes are different and lets face it, some people will smoke cigars that you won't. I feel the same way about conditioning. Dryer cigars taste better to me. I therefore control all aspects of the cigar environment to keep them that way.

I would likely take on a large percentage of the home made humidor crowd by telling them what they are doing wrong. Piling a large percentage of beads into a container and using them passively, using the wrong controls, not understanding the science or the processes and certainly not testing the final result is the reason that many if not most of these projects fail.

Lets understand something of water and water vapor. A pool of water will work endlessly, albeit slowly at lower temperatures, to saturate the closed space above them to 100 rH. A pool of water in a sealed humidor is a really bad idea.

My humidors recycle water and I change the water, but it usually runs a couple hundred CC's.

If your humidor is generating tons of condensation, quite frankly this is a good indication it is working. It is also an indication that you are doing something wrong as a humidor designer. The problem that you have is likely two fold. First you are attempting to control a heat differential with your environment that is over 10 dF. This is causing the unit to run a long time. Long dwell cooling times equals a lot of drying action in your humidor. This means a lot of condensation.

Just so you have an idea, one of my projects with about an 8 dF differential will run the cooler about 90 seconds at a time. This moves the rH down to about 55 or 56 rH and then back to 60-61 in a couple of minutes.

High rH in the humidor in the first place is another reason for the excessive run off.

Ultimately poor control and inaccurate monitoring is the main reason why people think their system either works or does not work. An accurate data logger is the only way to be sure!

You can build these systems yourself and have them work. You have to be willing to do the homework or pay someone for doing it for you or they won't work! Building them from scratch is a lot of effort and if you don't know the theory and cannot do the work you might as well unplug it.

I hate to be so harsh on the subject but running a small business where I help develop these systems for people, I have learned that you must have the commitment of time and some capital, and a mentor or experience failure, at least by my standards.

I am currently building a new project humidor that I will performing a lot of tests on. When I get around to it I will publish some results of what life in a temp controlled humidor is like when you use passive rH conditioners with active refrigeration. It is not what most people think it is!

Rather than BS about it here and now, I will run the experiments and publish the results. Seeing is believing as they say.

Good luck on your projects. -Piggy

This might be a lot to grasp for first time wine cooler converters, but looking back on it now, I made all the wrong moves Piggy listed. First of all my ambient temp and the temp I was trying to reach was 30F difference so my tiny wine cooler was working around the clock generating tons of condensation. I had the drain plugged and running to a bowl of kitty litter which would pool every night. I will not waste money on another wine cooler again. Instead, I found freezing cigars and storing them in air tight containers with Heartfelt beads resolves all problems because it keeps the cigars at a constant correct RH, which IMO is the number 1 factor in cigar storage.

If you already bought a wine cooler, just keep it unplugged. It's gona be a fancy expensive air tight container but at least it will hold RH. Freeze everything and keep the RH low (low 60's) and you won't have to worry about temperature causing beetle outbreaks or mold.

[PigFish]

Bring it on, El Cerdo!!!!!!!

... perhaps I should have said, active controlled homemade humidor crowd.... -LOL You use passive systems only my friend. And what you do works! I was talking more specifically about wine cooler conversions.

You are right in that sounding a bit pompous. What else is new?

By the way, I am working with a solid state relay timer maker to make some cool timing circuits for you Oust guys!!!

Someday... maybe... I will find something to sell you!!! -LOL

-Piggy

[CanuckSARTech]

... perhaps I should have said, active controlled homemade humidor crowd.... -LOL You use passive systems only my friend. And what you do works! I was talking more specifically about wine cooler conversions.

You are right in that sounding a bit pompous. What else is new?

By the way, I am working with a solid state relay timer maker to make some cool timing circuits for you Oust guys!!!

Someday... maybe... I will find something to sell you!!! -LOL

-Piggy

LOL. Cheers Ray.

I'll be here, waiting. My three coolers and one cabinet are humming along fine right now still - going on 6 years on the one cooler, and then two years and a bit with the others, and almost 3 years now (I think) on the cabinet.

But yes, like you said....passive in the coolers, and mostly passive in the cabinet (with a Cigar Oasis XL active, with superabsorbant polymers in the reservoir, just mostly to keep up in the winter months).

And also, like you've elaborated on, I don't have to deal with the huge temperature differentials that you guys have to worry about in your neck of the woods. We do hit the 90's in the summertime, but I have an awesome spot that all these are in, and good HVAC in the home - so, even at summer's peak, only about a 10 degree F temperature differential, MAX.

And....us Oust fan fans will be here waiting for you, Ray.

Thanks again for posting the above, and keep us updated! Cheers bud.

[Wil]

This might be a lot to grasp for first time wine cooler converters, but looking back on it now, I made all the wrong moves Piggy listed. First of all my ambient temp and the temp I was trying to reach was 30F difference so my tiny wine cooler was working around the clock generating tons of condensation. I had the drain plugged and running to a bowl of kitty litter which would pool every night. I will not waste money on another wine cooler again. Instead, I found freezing cigars and storing them in air tight containers with Heartfelt beads resolves all problems because it keeps the cigars at a constant correct RH, which IMO is the number 1 factor in cigar storage.

If you already bought a wine cooler, just keep it unplugged. It's gona be a fancy expensive air tight container but at least it will hold RH. Freeze everything and keep the RH low (low 60's) and you won't have to worry about temperature causing beetle outbreaks or mold.

To each their own.

I have a wineador, plugged drainage hole and a few pounds of beads. My hygros suggest it holds 65/65 (give or take) and my cigars taste great more often than not.

Do what works for you

[PigFish]

To each their own.

I have a wineador, plugged drainage hole and a few pounds of beads. My hygros suggest it holds 65/65 (give or take) and my cigars taste great more often than not.

Do what works for you

My input was not to impugn what others do. I wanted to emphasize the problems that I am presented by those looking for answers. My answers are based on what has and what has not worked for me.

I could not agree more. The best answer is; do what works best for you! Cheers. -Piggy

[nikesupremedunk]

To each their own.

I have a wineador, plugged drainage hole and a few pounds of beads. My hygros suggest it holds 65/65 (give or take) and my cigars taste great more often than not.

Do what works for you

You must already store in a cool room then. (not more than 75F) There was no way my 12 ct cooler was going to keep it at 65F when my ambient temp was 95. I am envious of those that have a perfectly operating wine coolerbut like you said do what works for you.

[Orion21]

Thermoelectric coolers are designed to work best in environments that don't have wild temperature fluctuations. If that is the case you are using the wrong product for the wrong environment. I keep a converted 16 bottle unit in my office and have taken over half of a 200 bottle wine cabinet at my home for my cigars. Both are thermoelectric and I have had zero condensation issues because I live in a low rh area and they are kept inside climate controlled areas.

If you live in a high humidity and high temperature environment you need to research the proper solution for your environment. That may mean a refrigeration unit with a cooling pump, which makes the conversion process even more challenging. From what I can see you are fighting a losing battle against your environment because your unit is running too much.

[Wil]

My input was not to impugn what others do.

Of course not - I didn't mean to suggest that you did!

I've read a lot of what you've written and I definitely fall into the camp of 'close enough is close enough', which is good enough for me! I'm not too worried about perfecting humidification at the moment, but I am an interested onlooker!

[Wil]

You must already store in a cool room then. (not more than 75F) There was no way my 12 ct cooler was going to keep it at 65F when my ambient temp was 95. I am envious of those that have a perfectly operating wine coolerbut like you said do what works for you.

We have had some pretty hot weather here for the past couple of months - most days well over 30C. The inside temperature has been up around that mark for a few days too and although the unit has been running a lot more than usual, I haven't had too many fluctuations. I do plan to turn the unit off later in autumn/winter though.

[ZinZan]

Like nike from Day 1, i was making all the mistakes, it was perpetual troubleshooting. It took me a good 3 months to get the RH at the level that i was comfortable with, and still wasnt ideal.

Piggy, dont get me wrong i do read your stuff on humidor but it was just beyond my comprehension and my capabilities to execute it to your specifications. I was trying to being in the camp "close enough is good enough". That too have failed spectacularly.

I think Orion is right, my weather conditions is not ideal for thermoelectric. Mind you I've read about it but i dont think it was gonna be this bad and i was advised by local FOH member. It was all right and executable and the pros will definitely outweigh the cons. But right now, im at the juncture whether im gonna start from scratch and drill a bottom hole for condensation or use it as what was intended to be used as a wine chiller.

[Esteban77]

ZinZan,

What I would do is replace the temperature controller with a bidirectional temperature controller(i.e. it cools and heats based upon the set temperature) if you want to continue using the chiller. This way the temperature remains constant and you eliminate condensation on the peltier unit's heat sink.

Esteban

[markyeo]

Hi zinzan, sorry to bring up an old post but I'm quite curious on your outcome. I too struggle to keep my winedor rh. Pls share how u did it in hot and humid malaysia

[vidast]

Quick question. My Temp stays consistently above 75 in my apt in the winter. Is it important that I plug in my wineador? Or should I let my cigars age in this higher temp? RH is right around 65.....

I have the drain plug covered, but with the unit plugged in the RH drops to like 60.

[houdini]

On 12/27/2018 at 12:09 AM, vidast said:

Quick question. My Temp stays consistently above 75 in my apt in the winter. Is it important that I plug in my wineador? Or should I let my cigars age in this higher temp? RH is right around 65.....

I have the drain plug covered, but with the unit plugged in the RH drops to like 60.

Im also in an apartment where its hard to regulate temp, during a NYC winter and....my windows are cracked open to keep my temp at 70 or lower. Aging requires a temperature of at least 65. 75 is really close to having problems. Open your window.

[cfc1016]

On 12/26/2018 at 8:09 PM, vidast said:

Quick question. My Temp stays consistently above 75 in my apt in the winter. Is it important that I plug in my wineador? Or should I let my cigars age in this higher temp? RH is right around 65.....

I have the drain plug covered, but with the unit plugged in the RH drops to like 60.

Does the unit operate via a thermoelectric cooler or a condenser? Thermoelectric cooling shouldn't have a large effect on RH. Condenser definitely would. Also It never hurts to throw in a 320g boveda, and make sure that you have ample airspace between your boxes and the interior walls of the cooler. This will help to ensure that you don't end up with uneven humidity regulation - say, high humidity at the bottom and low at the top, for example. Also can't hurt to make sure you have your bovedas spread out throughout the shelves of the unit, for that matter.