Cigars 2006-2010

[El Presidente]

I was having a good conversation with Michael on Tuesday about the merits of 2008 2009 2010 production.

As I have pointed out before I think that 2006 was the turn around year (for the decade) in Cuban cigar quality (construction and blend). Yes...plenty of excellent cigars were made 2000-2005 but when you work in the trade and see such a transformation it certainly resonates.

2007 was really a continuation of 2006. 2008 perhaps pipped 06 again with the caveat of plenty of underfilled cigars (particularly in the skinnies) a problem which has appeared to have been solved.

2009 is a funny year. What I have seen particularly in the larger formats (DC/Churchill) has been extremely good. Yet I haven't really seen a lot of 2009 come through. Keep in mind that Cuba was roughly at 1/3 of capacity production for the year which plays some part in that.

2010 has been a very solid year across the board.

Overall, each year since 2006 has been a consolidation on the previous year with no back sliding in terms of poorer quality/blend.

I would love you to share your thoughts?

[CanuckSARTech]

Rob, you've hit on this before I think. It was something we were really heavily discussing at the start of the year, I believe.

I think we're all waiting to see how the 2010 and 2011 stuff turns out. Late 2010 stuff is really, REALLY good it seems, but all of this stuff is still so young, it's a bit more comforting to let things have a year or two on them to really decide.

But I think you've hit the nail on the head - "...with no back sliding in terms of poorer quality/blend". I think that's the kicker. With each year apparently trumping the previous, we've all been waiting for the hammer to fall, for the quality to suddenly plummet and bottom out. Knock on wood, that doesn't appear to be happening.

It does definitely appear, on the surface, that since 2005/2006, the production side has really turned into a nicely oiled machine, and everything is meshing well with some amazing product.

Such a shame then that the R&D and marketing sides can't realize that same effect.

[dicko]

09 and 10 stuff is better than the 06-08 stuff I've had thats for sure.

[Wicky]

I've been happily impressed with the 010s overall. The 11s so far, seem to be holding up.

[aavkk]

Rob I'm curious to hear your thoughts on 02 and 03. Everything and I mean everything I have from both years is smoking just beautifully. Construction and blending appear to be excellent. RA 898's, Upmann Sir Winstons, Punch SS#1 and #2, SC La Punta, Boli CE's (amazing), Cohiba Selection Reservas, LGC 1,2,3,4, ERDM GDE's, JL 1's and I'm sure I could go on if I had a list of my stock.

Do you feel that in the main cigars from 02 and 03 are a step behind 06-10 and if so in what way? Maybe I'm lucky but I've been extremely happy with everything I've had from both 02 and 03 across so many marcas.

[laficion]

As I have pointed out before I think that 2006 was the turn around year (for the decade) in Cuban cigar quality (construction and blend).

As for certain blends, yes, from 2006,there has certainly been some big changes .

[PigFish]

I have had few '09 cigars, and not many '10's and 0 2011 vintage cigars. The 2010 vintage cigars that I have smoked were effin' awful. Luck of the draw or bad luck as it were, poor selection of cigar sizes... maybe. I can't condemn the years vintage over what I have sampled, but due to what I have sampled they are not on my must have list.

I have enjoyed many an '06-'08 vintage cigars and I think that for the most part they have been fantastic cigars. Some of the coronas that I have smoked from '06 have been some of the best cigars that I have ever smoked.

I think it is a big risk rating years of cigars. But I too, have got to say that '06 was a bellwether year.

-Piggy

[jedipastor]

I haven't smoked many 2010s as I typically don't like CCs that young. But the Party Shorts are great, and the RASS I had the other day from 2010 was very good also (which surprised me as my history with RASS is pretty meh).

[mazolaman]

From the viewpoint of buying a box,smoke the majority,and save a few....

The overall construction quality has improved year on year,with fewer plugs and better wrappers.

They have obviously got their systems in order.

I am finding the cigars are becoming less subtle,with the aim seeming to be big gauge ELs,loosing classic flavour cigars.

[tmac77]

I agree that, for the most part the quality of cigars coming out from 2006 to 2010 has improved year over year. As noted a couple of times by others, it is a bit hard to objectively compare a 2010 to a 2006 with respect to the flavour profile as obviously the 2006 has 4 years of age on the 2010 cigar. That having been said, however, I find much fewer issues with construction (overfill/underfill) issues with more recent years production.

As an example using one of my favorite Marca's (Punch) in their various Corona Gorda Vitola's

1998 - 2002: Super Sepection #2: Of these years the best box that I had in terms of flavour was a 1999 box. However 1 in 3 cigars per Cab had construction issues while a cab that I had from 2002 construction issues were down to 1 in 6

Punch Black Prince cigars that I have had were boxes from 1996 - 2002. another great cigar but construction issues were at about 1 in 6 with the exception of two 2001 boxes that I had which were perfect. (sadly now all gone but for one wee orphan)

Punch Royal Selection #11: I did not buy these until the SS#2's and Black Prince were discontinued so I only have examples from 2003 - 2010. These for me were really hit and miss in the early years 2003 - 2004 but 2005 - 2010 boxes improved each year in construction.

Punch Punch

This Corona Gorda for me has been one of the most inconsistent in terms of both flavour and construction until recently. I have had a 2005 box in which every single cigar was so badly plugged that I tossed it. Starting at around the later part of 2006 or early 2007 construction issues for these cigars were much better and have continued to improve to the point that I no longer worry about them. 2008 - 2010 boxes that I have smoked are now some of the best in terms of construction. I have also seen a return of the quality of the blend and flavour profile of this cigar from 2009 - 2010. Sadly though they are not a substitute for some of the great SS#2's or Black Prince in terms of flavour profile.

[PigFish]

I agree that, for the most part the quality of cigars coming out from 2006 to 2010 has improved year over year. As noted a couple of times by others, it is a bit hard to objectively compare a 2010 to a 2006 with respect to the flavour profile as obviously the 2006 has 4 years of age on the 2010 cigar. That having been said, however, I find much fewer issues with construction (overfill/underfill) issues with more recent years production.

As an example using one of my favorite Marca's (Punch) in their various Corona Gorda Vitola's

1998 - 2002: Super Sepection #2: Of these years the best box that I had in terms of flavour was a 1999 box. However 1 in 3 cigars per Cab had construction issues while a cab that I had from 2002 construction issues were down to 1 in 6

Punch Black Prince cigars that I have had were boxes from 1996 - 2002. another great cigar but construction issues were at about 1 in 6 with the exception of two 2001 boxes that I had which were perfect. (sadly now all gone but for one wee orphan)

Punch Royal Selection #11: I did not buy these until the SS#2's and Black Prince were discontinued so I only have examples from 2003 - 2010. These for me were really hit and miss in the early years 2003 - 2004 but 2005 - 2010 boxes improved each year in construction.

Punch Punch

This Corona Gorda for me has been one of the most inconsistent in terms of both flavour and construction until recently. I have had a 2005 box in which every single cigar was so badly plugged that I tossed it. Starting at around the later part of 2006 or early 2007 construction issues for these cigars were much better and have continued to improve to the point that I no longer worry about them. 2008 - 2010 boxes that I have smoked are now some of the best in terms of construction. I have also seen a return of the quality of the blend and flavour profile of this cigar from 2009 - 2010. Sadly though they are not a substitute for some of the great SS#2's or Black Prince in terms of flavour profile.

My notes were made regarding cigars in general, not factoring age. I recall being impressed with '06 cigars when I bought them in '06 and afterwards for example; it was the taste at the time young that got me back to buy more. The main thing about these newer cigars that struck me what the homogenous flavor. Not a flavor profile kind of guy... I don't really care what alleged profile a cigar is supposed to have. I am a smoking experience guy... so as long as the experience was good, I noted the homogenous nature and still bought out my budget.

I have had many great cigars from '99-'00; it was a matter of desire to own and smoke cigars during those years that forced me to do so. It was necessary for me to buy them from those years as it is for you younger smokers to buy current stock today. I was still burning through most of what I bough, smoking as many cigars as I purchased when I got them then. I found many of the more common sized, the overproduced cigars, to be the cigars with the most problems. By accident or design I was forced into finding some cigars that were not on my radar. The market forced me to open my mind to cigars outside the sphere of popular influence. I am glad I did.

There are good cigars and bad cigars in every year. It is sad to reflect and see notes like 1 in 3 or 1 in 6 cigars being sub-par. Real yes, but sad nontheless. The sad part is that the same materials and labor went into the bad cigars. It is likely with a little more care and pride, those could have been the supreme cigar samples out of the same box, where the others were "only" excellent!

I am also saddened a bit, feeling the pain of Mac here, in that most of the cigars of which he speaks are one way tickets. How nice it would be for him, knowing that he can burn up those Black Prince and the SS #2's knowing that he had '03, '05's, '07's and '10's waiting in his humidor for a time right in his mind to start smoking them. And then there is the rest of you! You newer smokers, reading his words and mine... just wondering what the **** we are talking about! (read that from a "I will never taste one of those either," perspective.)

When I look back at what I have purchased. The cigars that sit idle as they wait for my consumption, the cigars that I bought on sale here, a blow out there, having said to myself... "You have got to be crazy not to buy these." I sit today and smoke like a king, the uncommon and once unwanted, yet now due to the fact that they are unavailable, a rich investor in cigars. I would trade the value of my cigars for opportunities lost to the new smoker in a second. If there were only a few at Tabacuba et al, that had a similar mindset... That company, like the catalogue that they control, would no longer be in decline!

To come full circle; cigar smokers want a choice. They don't want to be pigeon-holed into either skinny or fat cigars. Their tastes will determine what they re-buy and if you don't give them what they want, or another choice to what they did not like, they will simply stop buying your products.

-the Pig

[tmac77]

I am also saddened a bit, feeling the pain of Mac here, in that most of the cigars of which he speaks are one way tickets. How nice it would be for him, knowing that he can burn up those Black Prince and the SS #2's knowing that he had '03, '05's, '07's and '10's waiting in his humidor for a time right in his mind to start smoking them. And then there is the rest of you! You newer smokers, reading his words and mine... just wondering what the **** we are talking about! (read that from a "I will never taste one of those either," perspective.)

-the Pig

Very well put Piggy. Construciton issues aside, what you stated above is very true. It really hits home for me when, once in a while, when I carefully dust off a box and pick out one of my few remaining SS#2's or Black Prince, to smoke. Almost imdediately you know that; 1. there is nothing out there in current produciton that can come close to replacing these and 2. they will soon be gone forever.

F. U. Tabacuba and the donkey you rode in on!!!

[Orion21]

I am a newer smoker without the depth of experience that tmac or piggy have, but of the cigars I have smoked from 2007-2010 the 2009's have impressed me the most. I am a huge fan of the RyJ Short Chruchill and Bolivar Royal Corona -- all 2009 boxes have been exceptional. Construction, fill and blends are spot on. All have smoked really well after about a month in the humidor and I find myself trying to find more 2009 boxes of each to age because they will pay huge dividends in the future.

[mbrody]

As a novice/amateur member here, I have had good and bad cigars from 2006-2008; main complaint for the bad ones has been lack of flavor, which I blame on construction. Quality of tobacco seems very good.

2009-2010 - I have yet to sample anything that was suspect in the flavor or construction department so far. This is pretty exciting.

One thing that does sway me to believe 2009-2011 are exceptional years is the evolution of LITH. It seams that all I see are beautiful photos of very fine specimens, making me think that all production within these years are great.

Am I being fooled? Are there more examples of HQ/PSP in 2009-2011 when compared to 2006-2008? Maybe pres knows...

[tmac77]

One thing that does sway me to believe 2009-2011 are exceptional years is the evolution of LITH. It seams that all I see are beautiful photos of very fine specimens, making me think that all production within these years are great.

Am I being fooled? Are there more examples of HQ/PSP in 2009-2011 when compared to 2006-2008? Maybe pres knows...

You are being fooled by Smithy's bait and switch photos. It's a trick that he picked up from the brothel down the street, among other things that he now needs to see a dotor about.

Kidding of course. HQ and PSP boxes do add a whole new dimension to the prodcut you are getting and one that I subscribe to regularly.

[dB69]

With a very limited amount of samples smoked I think 2006 was the best out of the mentioned range and 2008 comes second. Many cigars from 2009 have been mild or even bland. 2010 might have been a very good year - only a couple smoked so can't say for sure yet.

[randomhero1090]

I won't speak so much to the construction, since I haven't smoked that many from '00-'05. But what is glaring to me is the wrapper colors. I'm a RASS *****. I've got RASS from '05-'11. '07-'08 the wrappers are Colorado Claro to Colorado. But starting in '09 and going to '11, the wrappers are MUCH darker. I've noticed this on several cigars (RASS and RyJ Short Church are the standouts).

Anyone know why? This have anything to do with the aging process of tobacco? Just a crop thing?

I'm still pretty new to CCs, but this is something any Joe would notice if you lined up RASSs from '05 to '11.

[mbrody]

I won't speak so much to the construction, since I haven't smoked that many from '00-'05. But what is glaring to me is the wrapper colors. I'm a RASS *****. I've got RASS from '05-'11. '07-'08 the wrappers are Colorado Claro to Colorado. But starting in '09 and going to '11, the wrappers are MUCH darker. I've noticed this on several cigars (RASS and RyJ Short Church are the standouts).

Anyone know why? This have anything to do with the aging process of tobacco? Just a crop thing?

I'm still pretty new to CCs, but this is something any Joe would notice if you lined up RASSs from '05 to '11.

Come to think of it, many of the HQ/PSP Wrappers are dark...

[mbrody]

Lack of flavour can be attributed to any number of things, but the first thing taht would come to mind is not construction, rather it would be quality of the tobacco.

Cuba has gotten its act together in terms of QC lately, but has completely lost its marbles with regards to deletions and new releases...

I got some wind tunnels for you Schlomo. The wrappers look unbelievable. No taste what so ever...

[PigFish]

Lack of flavour can be attributed to any number of things, but the first thing taht would come to mind is not construction, rather it would be quality of the tobacco.

Cuba has gotten its act together in terms of QC lately, but has completely lost its marbles with regards to deletions and new releases...

Hmmm... Opinion only of course, but I would tend to back construction on this one! Why?

While the quality of tobacco certainly could be a concern I would have to default to what I know. What I know is that when a roller runs out of a certain tobacco he/she can get some heat for it. In other words he/she was not paying attention to the specified blend when he made his first xxx cigars and rather than cop a plea he rolls the rest of the tobacco into cigars anyway without it. This is the result of just not caring, poor qality control and a poor plan for disciplinary action.

I have also noted a correlation with poor tasting cigars and tunneling. Tunneling can be attributed to many reasons, but often seems to come as the result of poor blending (leaving out slower burning tobacco in the center of a larger cigar) and a lack of attention in building a cigar to the right weight specifications. Again, construction issues.

While I am only guessing too, and am certainly not saying that one answer is more right than another, I would back the construction argument on a single cigar, or box variation like this. Ammonia in a cigar, I would rate a quality tobacco problem, just to contrast. The tobacco may have been good, but was likely not stacked and fermented properly.

Just my 2 cts. -Piggy

[tmac77]

Just my 2 cts. -Piggy

It seems that we get alot more than 2 cts. in value from your posts piggy.

[PigFish]

It seems that we get alot more than 2 cts. in value from your posts piggy.

... some people get a penny for their thoughts. My added value has pushed mine to 2 cts.!!! -LOL Thanks mate! -the