Suckling's Best Years For Cigars

[jsd]

he should really cut his hair.

Thank you! I like the guy but that hair is terrible.

[El Presidente]

People are not liking Suckling....

Don't sweat it.....I doubt James would give a rats arse

[Trevor2118]

Production in 2009/2010 was down almost 50%. Factory layoffs has been well documented.

.....and yet, the 2010 Regionals are still being released.

[El Presidente]

.....and yet, the 2010 Regionals are still being released.

...they shouldn't have cut as many rollers

[skindiver]

In my opinion Suckling should be taken for what he is. A fair wine critic, I have heard.

[bassman]

What's wrong with Suckling's hair? Wonder if the folks telling him to cut it are bald? Heck, at age 58 I'm happy to have very long hair.

[Peter11216]

Production in 2009/2010 was down almost 50%. Factory layoffs has been well documented.

Thanks. I'm not sure I understand the strategy of lowering production. Presumably, they are lowering production to keep prices up, with demand falling. Given that Cubans account for the majority of the world's cigar market, would it not be profitable to meet the fall in demand with lower prices?

Best,

Pete

[maverickdrinker]

I would put 2008, 2010, and 2009 as my top 3.

[El Presidente]

Thanks. I'm not sure I understand the strategy of lowering production. Presumably, they are lowering production to keep prices up, with demand falling. Given that Cubans account for the majority of the world's cigar market, would it not be profitable to meet the fall in demand with lower prices?

Best,

Pete

Pete, There were 90 million Cuban cigars in distrubutor warehouses around the world. The HSA Warehouse was full to overfllowing. At the same time global demand was down 33%. They had little choice but to cut production as there was simply no place to store cigars that were not being sold.

[adic88]

Really, Rob, cigar demand for Cubans is down?

I know i've been buying lots...

Are you noticing that in your own business? 33% less orders?

[PigFish]

Pete, There were 90 million Cuban cigars in distrubutor warehouses around the world. The HSA Warehouse was full to overfllowing. At the same time global demand was down 33%. They had little choice but to cut production as there was simply no place to store cigars that were not being sold.

Little choice amigo! Now tell me what is not selling? Overproduced robustos... oh no!!! Everyone wants to smoke the same cigar; that's what all the buzz was around here when all the local marketing experts came out of the woodwork. Hey mates... you guys are not buying enough robustos and Mag 9000's! I mean why make a cigar that I would continue to buy like the Partagas Coronas, or the Boli Lonsdale when you can sell me "nada" instead?

H SA... Some of us don't want your lousy over priced and over produced robustos! Maybe you had better now cut the Monte Especial because they are taking up too much room on shelves!!!

Where are all those pundits now, when it is their cigar favorites that are sitting on shelves? Funny where this cut the thin model algorithm has got them now. Just one less customer, ME!

If H SA spent less time worrying about rewarding party members with positions and more time studying their own customers and the market perhaps they would be selling a few more cigars. Why don't they sell some tobacco to the ex-pats and let them make some cigars with it? It is because they know that these folks would take the tobacco and make fools of them with it and likely put them out of business.

I still say lower prices!!! Bundle a hundred bandless PC's in cello and sell them without a box for $150 retail and they will fly off shelves. Call them Batguanomaras and they will still sell!!! The marketing bullshit IS NOT WORKING!

You gotta' be a dumb ass to not be able to sell the worlds best tobacco when you factor in what the Cubans get paid for labor. Any guy running a taco stand could do aa better job than these dopes! -Piggy

[LuciusSulla]

Every time I see JS, all I can think of is, "hint of tea."

[Van55]

I have no idea why this guy has the following he seems to have. I agree with skin-diver -- Sucking might be a fair wine critic. As for cigars he is full of hot air in my considered judgment.

[Superbad]

Every hobby/passion has their fair share of shills. Whether it is Mountain Biking or Wines there are people who live a great life at the whim of the manufacturers. I always treat the opinions of these people as extremely suspect. I try to make my own decisions on purchases, based on past experiences and my gut. Sometimes I am wrong other times the pay off is great.

I can not see how Suckling can say that 2011 is such a fantastic year, but I do understand his motivation in saying such a thing. Maybe he will be right, but there is a large part of the year yet to come.

As far as Habanos SA, I do not understand how they can continue their current scheme of higher prices and increasing numbers of exclusive editions. They are sitting on a massive supply and demand is decreasing, even if demand is going down only because the vast majority of the First and Second world is aggressively banning public consumption of tobacco. If there is nowhere legal to smoke, why would most people pay ever increasing prices for cigars, especially in sizes the are not asking for?

[Stalebread]

Production in 2009/2010 was down almost 50%. Factory layoffs has been well documented.

That's cigar production, right?

What about tobacco? Was tobacco growing and curing also down the same during that time period?

I know we've gone over this before but I can't recall . . . ?

[SethLG]

I can not see how Suckling can say that 2011 is such a fantastic year, but I do understand his motivation in saying such a thing. Maybe he will be right, but there is a large part of the year yet to come.

Couldn't agree more with the first statement. How can you say 2011 is the best year of production when we are halfway through the third month of the year? That being said, I don't have the knowledge and fortune of rating cigars throughout all these years but El Presidente's vintage chart is accurate to me in my experience.

[Puros Y Vino]

Since this thread is equating the epicurean qualities of cigars to wines in terms of years/vintages I'm curious about something. Do all the cigar factories, whether it be El Laguito, Partagas, etc use tobacco exclusively from certain regions and farms or is the tobacco harvest pooled and doled out to factories based on some grading practices?

With wine, one can expect that, let's say a Chateau Petrus, is made from the grapes grown on the Chateau's vineyards. Other wines are classified as to being from a particular region and can be blended from grapes of various vineyards. Does Cuban tobacco follow a similar route? Can one say that every Cohiba Lancero is made from tobacco grown at "Farm X" in the "Region Y"? Whether that was true or not would go a long way towards validating a "vintage" for cigars.

[thechenman]

I haven't always been the biggest fan of James Suckling, but I find his commentary interesting and often informative, even if I don't always agree with his reviews. I think he gets a bit overexcited at times, but that may just be who he is. I don't know the man, but from what others have written and said about him, he would have my respect as others who I respect, respect him. That said...I don't think that we should be so critical of Suckling saying that 2011 ranks as the best year of production. More or less, I think he was just trying to make an emphatic call that given the factors in play in Cuba and around the world, 2011 has the potential to the best year in over a decade for Cuban cigars. It's one man's opinion, his opinion. I'm pretty sure others may share his optimism, but Suckling is willing to take it one step further and lay it all out there.

[rckymtn22]

I would think finding 2011 cigars out on the market would be pretty tough this early in the year.

[Colt45]

Since this thread is equating the epicurean qualities of cigars to wines in terms of years/vintages I'm curious about something. Do all the cigar factories, whether it be El Laguito, Partagas, etc use tobacco exclusively from certain regions and farms or is the tobacco harvest pooled and doled out to factories based on some grading practices?

I don't believe Cuban cigars really equate with wine vintages per se. The tobacco can come from different farms (as can wine with a vintage),

but perhaps more importantly, unless something has changed, the tobaccos used come from different harvest years - three year aged ligero,

two year seco, one year volado.

The date on the box is when the cigars were boxed.

[tigger]

I would have put 2006 in my top 3.

This

[Van55]

Box dates are practically meaningless as a tool to evaluate a box of cigars, in my opinion. Perhaps over-generalizations can be drawn, but they are just that.

Cuban cigars are rolled by different rollers in different factories. The blend is not going to be exactly the same from one factory to the next or one "batch" of cigars to the next. In fact, it's rather astounding that Cubatabac is able to achieve what consistency it does. Moreover, the date on the box is not necessarily the date when the cigars inside were produced. The tobacco in a box of 2003 cigars may have been grown in 2001 or 2002 or even 2003 -- so the tobacco may not be from the same crop from one box to the next even stamped with the same year.

I can't say how many times I have read the caution to avoid cigars from 1998-2001, but I have had some absolutely stunning cigars from those years -- and I have many boxes from those years in my humidor that are getting better as they age.

Grain of salt, folks. Grain of salt.

[Puros Y Vino]

I can't say how many times I have read the caution to avoid cigars from 1998-2001, but I have had some absolutely stunning cigars from those years -- and I have many boxes from those years in my humidor that are getting better as they age.

I've read that caution as well. But I think what it relates to is the drop in quality during the "cigar boom" era where inexperienced rollers were used to keep production up with demand. And as a result, many say the cigar quality suffered. Mostly in the form of terrible draw.

But my question remains unanswered. Does every factory get their tobacco from specific regions/farms on a consistent basis or is tobacco distributed using some other criteria?

[PigFish]

Box dates are practically meaningless as a tool to evaluate a box of cigars, in my opinion. Perhaps over-generalizations can be drawn, but they are just that.

Cuban cigars are rolled by different rollers in different factories. The blend is not going to be exactly the same from one factory to the next or one "batch" of cigars to the next. In fact, it's rather astounding that Cubatabac is able to achieve what consistency it does. Moreover, the date on the box is not necessarily the date when the cigars inside were produced. The tobacco in a box of 2003 cigars may have been grown in 2001 or 2002 or even 2003 -- so the tobacco may not be from the same crop from one box to the next even stamped with the same year.

I can't say how many times I have read the caution to avoid cigars from 1998-2001, but I have had some absolutely stunning cigars from those years -- and I have many boxes from those years in my humidor that are getting better as they age.

Grain of salt, folks. Grain of salt.

Hear, hear!

898V's from '98 lousy, 898UV great (just a comment on experience)

'99 Boli CE, best I ever smoked

'99 Party Seleccion Privada, favorite cigar

'98 Party PC a lost favorite

'01 Upmann Lonsdale, some of the best cigars I ever owned!

... the list goes on and on. A box code is an ink stamp on the bottom of a box and not a hellufa lot else! -Piggy

[laficion]

But my question remains unanswered. Does every factory get their tobacco from specific regions/farms on a consistent basis or is tobacco distributed using some other criteria?

Hi bundwallah,

I think that I see where you want to go in your question, also, your question is very vast and very

conplicated in many ways but it's the essence of each marca and factory. Your question has more

to do with each brand rather then in what factory they are made in, since a factory will roll other brands

inside it's walls then just one marca. This is not new but rather dates back from the 19th century, when

big owners would buy off smaller owners and factories and then brought the brand to be rolled at the

"Mother Factory" such as Partagas when it was owned by Ramon Cifuentes.

Cifuentes bought off Bolivar, La Gloria Cubana, Ramon Allones and from there, these brands were made

at Partagas , just as they still are today.

OK, fine, but I still haven't answered your question, Humm you're right !!!

As to your question, the answer is yes, each marca has it's blend or if you want, it's recipe.

It's this blend that will give the marca it's characteristic flavour profil and taste. For these and each

specific blend, different tobaccos will come from different regions, but also , from various farms and

vegas. Since I wrote about Partagas, lets stay with Partagas. the tobacco, as we all know, comes from

the Vuelta Abajo, yes, but where ? The Vuelta Abajo has different soils that grows different types of

Criollo & Corojo plants for wrappers or fillers, Habana 92 or Corojo 99 , etc, etc.

Year after year there will be climate changes or and different harvests and vintages. The tobacco that

will be used in the blending for a Partagas has a specific regional origin (Vuelta Abajo) , but also a

specific vegas or farm. From what I've been told on one of our visits to HSA and at the warehouses

in Pinar del Rio, the tobacco comes from San Luis, San Juan y Martinez in Pinar del Rio but also from

the old plantations of Partagas in the vegas of Consolacion del Sur in the Semi Vuelta.

other examples,

(Hoyo de Monterrey), farms in San Juan y Martinez but also from the old vegas of Hoyo de Monterrey

and La Majagua.

( Cohiba), Specific farms called Vegas Finas and also Las Cuchillas de Barbacoa ( vegas Robaina).

Of course, This can become more complicated if I want to dig deeper, but that's enough for me,

like someone once said, A cigar is just a cigar. hummmm,............. I think !!!!

I hope that I've been of some help .