Australian rules football!

[ksblazer]

Let me start out by saying that I live in Washington State so I don't get to see this sport played much. The last time I recall watching an Australian rules football game was back in the late 80's & early 90's on ESPN. While I enjoy American Football (seahawks season ticket holder) anytime Aussie football was on TV I watched it. I really like the constant action, hard hit's, watching the crowd get into the game and the rules weren't too difficult to figure out either. But as ESPN became more popular and they became more mainstream with American sports they quit showing Australian rules football? So couple of days ago, I was flipping through the channels late at night and what do I see on ESPN2. The Australian rules football game of the week!! It was in the last quarter, but I didn't care. I watched the game. It was Carlton VS. Hawthorn. Like I said I hadn't seen a game since the early 90's, but it's still just as fun to watch as it was back then. After that I got on the internet the next day and checked to see if ESPN was back to televising the games? Unfortunatly the are only going to show 1 more game this year on July 10th Geelong VS. Hawthorn. Hopefully I'll be able to catch it.

Knowing that CoH is in Australia and there are a lot of members here are from Australia. I was just curious how popular is the sport in Australia? (I'm guessing it in the top 3)

How long have you been watching Aussie rules football and who is your team?

Thanks

[dicko]

Hey mate,

I love footy. Gald you enjoy!

I'm in western australia and it is huge here. It is also huge in victoria (the AFL used to be called the VFL vic. football league) and the Grandfinal is played every year at the MCG, "the G", the melbourne cricket ground. northern territoty, tasmania and south australia also.

Queensland and NSW/ACT prefer the two rugby codes and soccer is pretty popular all over.

I played all through school, was a pretty good defender, but gave up because of time constraints, also don't miss injuries. good for fitness and club community.

Great game that is better to watch live as it doesn't translate that well onto TV because of the size of the ground and the wide movements. heaps of highlights of games on youtube for you though

cheers

[Wil]

Check out the 'Setanta' sports network. I was in the US in 2008 when my team (Hawthorn) won the premiership. I watched it on Setanta at a bar.

Also check out www.usfooty.com

[ImTripN2]

Aussome! I used to watch it to back then too, and the best part was when the ref'd pull out the 'six guns' , that was great... they still do that?

[Smooth]

Hi Ks... Glad you enjoy the most entertaining game on the planet (im a little biased).

It is the biggest sport in Australia... Largest attendances, most watched on TV (and TV rights worth close to $1bn AUD) and has the largest amount of season ticket holders also.

I was brought up a passionate Richmond supporter and have been following them for all my 27 years. Coincidently they last made a Grand Final two months before my birth. Sad but true They have been very poorly managed in this time and seen little success, but there have been a few occasions where a Richmond game has drawn circa 100,000 people and I can tell you there is nothing like it in life. Simply awe inspiring.

Richmond is a proud club with one of the largest and most passionate supporter bases, we will roar again in the future. If you want to become interested in a club. Richmond is the one for you

If you're keen to watch more games I am fairly sure that afl.com.au live streams them for overseas viewers.

[Kangaroo495]

I've been a Hawthorn supporter since the second I was put on the planet. Still have the photo of me with the Hawthorn Hawk in my hospital crib

If you used to watch Aussie rules in the late 80s you'd know Hawthorn pretty well, as we had the best and by far the toughest team. The game has got a lot faster since then, and there are a lot less big hits and fighting (also a lot less mullets and handlebar moustaches).

Anyway, enjoy watching it! It's really a magnificent and original game. It's played in the US also in some parts.

It's one thing I really really miss about Australia.

[Fuzz AI]

Not really popular here in NSW. We're more into rugby, cricket and soccer. To be completely honest, I don't know what the fascination is with AFL, I can't stand it personally. If I had a choice between lawn balls and AFL on the TV, I'd watch lawn balls.

I recall there was something called the Barassi Line that referred to how Australia was divided amongst the 2 codes.

[Kangaroo495]

Not really popular here in NSW. We're more into rugby, cricket and soccer. To be completely honest, I don't know what the fascination is with AFL, I can't stand it personally. If I had a choice between lawn balls and AFL on the TV, I'd watch lawn balls.

It's strange because that's pretty much my sentiment regarding rugby (in any of its forms). Rather have someone pull out my teeth one-by-one with rusty pliers than watch it.

Why are we so biased?

[Ken Gargett]

victorians and their ilk will tell you it is the most popular but it deopends on how you want to work the figures. you can jiggle the figures very easily to have fishing as our most popular sport. it is the key winter code (most people tend to think of cricket as our leading sport, and no doubt that is so for summer) in victoria, south and west aussie and tassie, while rugby league is the most popular in nsw and qld - and i believe that between them, nsw and qld hold over half the population. league is most popular then rugby and aussie rules would be close (got a lot of fans when the glorious lions joined the comp about 20 years ago and especially when they went through a golden era with a team many claimed best of all time but you can argue that for a million years - tho no other team won three flags in a row for half a century or so). soccer is becoming more popular especially with kids and mothers.

aussie rules is more popular in qld than many realise. as a kid at school in brisbane, we played aussie rules. there was no rugby or league. then went to a different school and that was all rugby. i've always followed all three though if the aussie rules was clashing with the other two and i had to miss one, most likely miss the rules, though depend on what game.

the major football event in australia is unquestionably the state of origin (the annual rigby league best of thee between qld and nsw where you play for your original state), the first of the three game series on tomorrow. massive viewing figures. it will be the one league game/thing rabid aussie rules and rugby fans will not miss. the magnificent qlders are going for a never-before-achieved five series in a row though we are rank underdogs with the first game in sydney and we have a heap of injuries, but we do have a team spirit that the wannabees from down south can only dream about.

[Fuzz AI]

It's strange because that's pretty much my sentiment regarding rugby (in any of its forms). Rather have someone pull out my teeth one-by-one with rusty pliers than watch it.

Why are we so biased?

It is indeed odd. I guess it's down to preference. Would you rather jump onto another dude and ride him brokeback style, or shove your head up his arse with your mates behind you shoving you deeper?

[Smooth]

Ken, seems the only thing we politely disagree on is sport. I too actively follow all three major codes in Oz. Although soccer has eclipsed Union as the third over the last year.

Show me a stat where AFL is not the biggest sport in the nation.

And also, Rugby League took the idea of State of Origin from AFL. Further to that point origin is also not the biggest sporting event in the nation each year. Where did you get that notion from? The AFL Grand Final is the most watched sporting event each year. Around the entire nation.

Id make a bet for any amount that the NRL wont be shown on any free to air channel (or variant in time of current free to air) in 25 years time. Average crowd is circa 15,000 and 90%+ of games are played in an NRL mad state.

I do love union, played it at school in Melbourne but it too is a dying supporter base in Oz. In 25 years AFL and Soccer will be neck and neck for the most popular sport in Australia.

[Ken Gargett]

Ken, seems the only thing we politely disagree on is sport. I too actively follow all three major codes in Oz. Although soccer has eclipsed Union as the third over the last year.

Show me a stat where AFL is not the biggest sport in the nation.

And also, Rugby League took the idea of State of Origin from AFL. Further to that point origin is also not the biggest sporting event in the nation each year. Where did you get that notion from? The AFL Grand Final is the most watched sporting event each year. Around the entire nation.

Id make a bet for any amount that the NRL wont be shown on any free to air channel (or variant in time of current free to air) in 25 years time. Average crowd is circa 15,000 and 90%+ of games are played in an NRL mad state.

I do love union, played it at school in Melbourne but it too is a dying supporter base in Oz. In 25 years AFL and Soccer will be neck and neck for the most popular sport in Australia.

the ratings figures i've seen (not that i keep such things) are very different. they show state of origin as ahead of the afl final. people under-estimate league. had a bet a decade ago as he thought league would be dead. never been stronger. a vast amount of the support for league comes from lower income groups. would be a massively unpopular decision to allow that to be removed. and it is a huge money spinner for 9. as with the afl, they are talking the next contract a billion. whio knows but i'd be surprised. they'd only have to look at the damage rugby has done to itself with the ground roots to move to mostly pay tv.

the thing that drove home just how entrenched league is in qld, leaving aside nsw for a moment, was when the lions played the prelim final, against richmond from memory, which if they won would put them in their first grand final. it was being shown on 7. the broncos had been kicked out of the semis and the game on 9 was something like a minor semi between sharks and eels or something like that - two of the weakest teams left. it was utterly irrelevant to qlders unless you were a southerner who'd moved up here. and on the other channel, a chance to watch history with the lions heading into the grand final. i was absolutely stunned when the ratings came out - the figures for the irrelevant league game blew the lions away by two or three times. it was that moment when i realised just how entrenched league is here. i'll be very surprised if free-to-air loses it. and if you want confirmation, head up to caxton street on the evening of the 2nd state of origin. nothing else quite like that happens in australia and you'll never doubt the strength of the game again. just don't wear a shred of blue.

rugby goes up and down but no way is it a dying supporter base. you mean getting old or just fading away? rugby has the great, long term advantage (along with soccer) of being the only international sport (league in a minor way) of the three. which will count. i think the most watched sporting event in the country - bar the freeman olympics - was the 03 rugby world cup final.

they've been saying that about soccer for decades. the fact that as soon as someone is half decent, they bugger off hurts the game and always will.

all that aside, the last figures i saw had cricket ahead of all codes - that may be because the codes divide up the spoils into four where cricket - bar minor competition from tennis and golf - has a season to itself. but that might be participants rather than ratings.

[sje]

Ken you pose a good argument but let us please use facts in this debate, although I am a biased Victorian I do appreciate most sports including the rugby codes. Australian Rules football is by far the biggest everall sport in all the relevant departments, I offer no debate as to how long each code would last in comparison to others. I have taken many international guests to games and all have loved it, the atmosphere the G offers helps that, but no doubt Afl is the biggest sport in AU

h

[ksblazer]

Aussome! I used to watch it to back then too, and the best part was when the ref'd pull out the 'six guns' , that was great... they still do that?

They still do that

[Smooth]

Ken,

I know I am biased being an AFL fan and a Victorian by birth and you are biased being a true QLD'er. I love origin, I used to have relations with one of the QLD greats' sisters in the most intimate way... and met, ate and drank with a lot of them current and past... all great blokes. So my fondness for the game of NRL is pretty decent.

However the facts are undeniable that AFL is this Nations biggest sport. I didnt want to back my comments without confirming my thoughts so... here are some facts:

According to official stats:

TV rights value: AFL $780mil over five years. NRL $480mil over six years. So AFL wins by $300mil while having one less year.

TV ratings: AFL grand final including regional areas 3.9mil, NRL State of origin highest rating game (game one) 3.05mil. AFL wins by 900,000 ish.

Crowd attendances:AFL 2009, just under 7,000,000, NRL 2009 including three state of origin games and 3 more regular season rounds (23+ extra games) just under 3,000,000. AFL wins by 4,000,000.

Surprisingly the super 14 is second in average match attendances behind AFL (AFL nearly 2X super 14 figure of 22,000). Rightly so as union is the only real form of Rugby. Surprisingly though the A league soccer is catching NRL attendances per match at fast pace. Soccer is about 1000 people per game behind NRL at a lowly 13,000 approx. AFL wins over super 14 by over 15,000 per game.

I rest my case sir. Also the participation rates for NRL are falling year by year, while growing in soccer and AFL. Eventually there will be poor talent at current NRL level, even lower TV ratings & attendances, less sponsorship and once this all happens it will follow the path of the NBL as it is already doing.

Socio economic situations arent that of the NRL alone, the average AFL supporter is in the same income bracket, there is just more of them following AFL. When the Gold Coast and Western Sydney teams enter the AFL in 2011 and 2012 respectively, AFL will gain (convert) even more of these NRL 'battlers'. And you also cant compare in fairness a world sporting event like the Sydney olympics or 2003 RWC to a nation based and nation only sport in AFL.

I have been in Caxton St having dinner before and drinks after an origin game, its one street! One small single 100 metre long street! In Melbourne when even a moderate AFL game is happening, a great deal of the entire city is like Caxton St during origin. Comparing similar scale games (AFL Grand Final to Suncorp Origin) is a no contest.

In saying that, I will be cheering my guts out for my adopted state of Queensland tomorrow night!!!

PS: Thanks for bringing up the 2001 prelim against the lions. My heart was broken for the only time that night

[Ken Gargett]

Ken,

I know I am biased being an AFL fan and a Victorian by birth and you are biased being a true QLD'er. I love origin, I used to have relations with one of the QLD greats' sisters in the most intimate way... and met, ate and drank with a lot of them current and past... all great blokes. So my fondness for the game of NRL is pretty decent.

However the facts are undeniable that AFL is this Nations biggest sport. I didnt want to back my comments without confirming my thoughts so... here are some facts:

According to official stats:

TV rights value: AFL $780mil over five years. NRL $480mil over six years. So AFL wins by $300mil while having one less year.

TV ratings: AFL grand final including regional areas 3.9mil, NRL State of origin highest rating game (game one) 3.05mil. AFL wins by 900,000 ish.

Crowd attendances:AFL 2009, just under 7,000,000, NRL 2009 including three state of origin games and 3 more regular season rounds (23+ extra games) just under 3,000,000. AFL wins by 4,000,000.

Surprisingly the super 14 is second in average match attendances behind AFL (AFL nearly 2X super 14 figure of 22,000). Rightly so as union is the only real form of Rugby. Surprisingly though the A league soccer is catching NRL attendances per match at fast pace. Soccer is about 1000 people per game behind NRL at a lowly 13,000 approx. AFL wins over super 14 by over 15,000 per game.

I rest my case sir. Also the participation rates for NRL are falling year by year, while growing in soccer and AFL. Eventually there will be poor talent at current NRL level, even lower TV ratings & attendances, less sponsorship and once this all happens it will follow the path of the NBL as it is already doing.

Socio economic situations arent that of the NRL alone, the average AFL supporter is in the same income bracket, there is just more of them following AFL. When the Gold Coast and Western Sydney teams enter the AFL in 2011 and 2012 respectively, AFL will gain (convert) even more of these NRL 'battlers'. And you also cant compare in fairness a world sporting event like the Sydney olympics or 2003 RWC to a nation based and nation only sport in AFL.

I have been in Caxton St having dinner before and drinks after an origin game, its one street! One small single 100 metre long street! In Melbourne when even a moderate AFL game is happening, a great deal of the entire city is like Caxton St during origin. Comparing similar scale games (AFL Grand Final to Suncorp Origin) is a no contest.

In saying that, I will be cheering my guts out for my adopted state of Queensland tomorrow night!!!

PS: Thanks for bringing up the 2001 prelim against the lions. My heart was broken for the only time that night

this has to be quick as i'm rushing out.

but i think what we've both posted shows how you can jiggle stats - and all a bit irrelevant as people will follow what they want, not because of its size. i'll come back to cricket. my understanding that participation in cricket blows everything else away. so how then is it not the 'biggest' sport?

the tv deals - done at very different times with the league one up again soon.

they are talking a billion over five years (who knows if they'll get less or more). will that then mean league is the biggest.

soccer is still very ethnic here, despite all the efforts to move it away from that.

crowds - afl plays more games each week so tossing in extra rounds gives a false impression.

"And you also cant compare in fairness a world sporting event like the Sydney olympics or 2003 RWC to a nation based and nation only sport in AFL." why not? rugby is an international sport. consider the number of people in nz, south africa, europe etc also watching the super 14 and the international games.

i think you'll also find that while nsw/qld audiences have their faves, they are more likely to also watch other sports (probably as the afl has done a better job of promoting itself) than are victorians. i suspect your figures prove that.

with the coast and west sydney, you may get many attending/watching but very few will be converts in the sense of giving up league, especially, or rugby. west sydney is incredibly strong in league and they won't switch for a mob shoehorned in with gimmicks like trying to sign folau. most of the fans from the coast will be southerners who have moved up. but there will be plenty of interest. as i mentioned, i grew up in a school in brizzy that played only aussie rules - as did all the schools around us. one or two of the guys i played with in my class went on to play in the afl or whatever it was then called (shamefully for the pies). at the next school - strongly rugby-orientated - we still had guys play aussie rules (one was a bloke called dunstall who did okay).

as for the caxton street comment, i don't know what game you went to but i simply don't come close to swallowing that "In Melbourne when even a moderate AFL game is happening, a great deal of the entire city is like Caxton St during origin." that is nonsense.

i know melbourne loves to think of itself as the great sporting city of the world but i one of the strongest impressions made on me when i first went to work in DC was how that city, for an ordinary 'during the season' game, just blew away what we think is impressive for either the nfl or afl grand final here. that was twenty years ago and no idea what it is like now but what i saw then would still leave anything here for dead. and DC is a fraction of the soze of melbourne and/or sydney.

[Cubanface]

The US has been trying to make Soccer or "Football" popular here for decades. Never really worked. Recently I've been watching Australian Football on the MIND channel for months now that I got in a sports package. I said to my buddy that I thought they had something here meaning I thought this could become really popular in the US. Then like he said, the other night it was on ESPN 2. I seriously think it could become very popular. They wear no pads, it's violent, fast paced, and scoring is plentiful. Would fit perfectly in America.

[Ken Gargett]

tried to find out a bit more about the ratings as was a bit surprised with what you had as it didn't tie in with what i'd understood. first, apparently the highest rating event was actually one of the aussie tennis opens which stunned me, even more than the rugby final.

it seems that these ratings are capital city ratings and do not account for regional preferences. i would suggest that with the considerably higher regional populations in nsw and qld, that would make significant differences.

but then i have always wondered how accurate the ratings are anyway.

[Kangaroo495]

I think we've all pretty much nailed it.

AFL - most popular sport in Oz. Why, because a lot of League fans will watch both sports, while AFL will most likely not. Growing up in Melbourne, I never once saw a rugby match on TV. The first rugby match I ever watched was here in Moscow (on the telly).

Seriously doubt that League will die out due to its international appeal. Just the other week, I had the pleasure of meeting the Russian Rugby LEAGUE team (co-incidentally coached by a bloke from Melbourne! Who of course follows AFL too, and plays it with his rugby squad as a training exercise). Rugby in general (mainly Union) is experiencing a renaissance over in Europe.