colour or quality?

[Ken Gargett]

I think that the systems are already in place to achieve consistency in both flavour and construction. The sad reality is that they are not being enforced in the way they should be. The prime reason as colt points out is the personal economic situation the rollers and factory workers find themselves in.

Has a true communist country ever really produced a tier 1commercial product which requires manual labour? I can't think of one but I may be wrong.

How I would love factory workers to own shares in the factory itself. To understand targets, rejections, profit, reward.

The problem is not the factories. the problem is the greater system that does not promote quality. There are exceptions. There are rollers and factory workers who are proud and passionate. They are true legends to be able to block out the harshness of reality all around them.

how about caviar?

understand what you say about things being in place but as you and i both know, and as yesterday showed in spades, they might be in place but they are falling short.

no cuban i've ever met doesn't understand reward and profit. and if they can improve their lot with bonuses for top work, they will. i know you think it easier for them to just pinch from the tables and sell off site, but i don't think that applies to all the rollers or anything like. and perhaps the authorities need to crack down a bit harder so that alternative is cut off (wouldn't be that hard if they wanted to), so that the bonus for good work system would become even more appealing.

[El Presidente]

how about caviar?

The fish does most of the work

[Ken Gargett]

The fish does most of the work

in other words, the tobacco plant does most of the work here?

[reg]

very interesting, I had no idea that is how the system worked, and I would have never guessed that

[El Presidente]

in other words, the tobacco plant does most of the work here?

You are an idiot.

[Ken Gargett]

You are an idiot.

quite possibly but 'the fish does the work' hardly puts you in line for a nobel prize.

[El Presidente]

quite possibly but 'the fish does the work' hardly puts you in line for a nobel prize.

Net a Beluga...take it to a laboratory, club it, remove eggs, skin eggs, lightly salt eggs, bottle it/can it.

Even a communist country can manage that (You would think)...except that they killed off most of the fish. Very Communist indeed.

I was merely pointing out that the cigar process is a tad more complicated.

[reg]

how about caviar?

understand what you say about things being in place but as you and i both know, and as yesterday showed in spades, they might be in place but they are falling short.

no cuban i've ever met doesn't understand reward and profit. and if they can improve their lot with bonuses for top work, they will. i know you think it easier for them to just pinch from the tables and sell off site, but i don't think that applies to all the rollers or anything like. and perhaps the authorities need to crack down a bit harder so that alternative is cut off (wouldn't be that hard if they wanted to), so that the bonus for good work system would become even more appealing.

Maybe right, but is the incentive there for the rollers? I doubt they get compensated enough for their work, let alone if they do really terrific work. I suppose if there was some prestige and status equated with being a roller, and some sort of exclusivitey there might be a strive to do good work, but I doubt that is the atmosphere there.

If you paid Americans, and probably the same holds true for Australians, what the rollers in Cuba are getting paid, do you think the quality would be any different?

[bunburyist]

I'd definitely prefer consistency over colour, and agree that the best way would be to have rollers having their own boxes as it were.

Still, more than likely will end up waiting the 10-15 years or so before we see any change in Cuba which would allow hard work to be rewarded.

[Ken Gargett]

Net a Beluga...take it to a laboratory, club it, remove eggs, skin eggs, lightly salt eggs, bottle it/can it.

Even a communist country can manage that (You would think)...except that they killed off most of the fish. Very Communist indeed.

I was merely pointing out that the cigar process is a tad more complicated.

so these fish just swim up to the factory and stick their heads out and say whack away? fishermen go out for many days chasing them. maintaining nets, boats etc. hard work indeed. i would maintain that is strenuous manual labour and hence more than qualifies for your exception. apologies can be handwritten.

[El Presidente]

fishermen go out for many days chasing them.

What is this...Captain Ahab and the White Whale?

They lay nets in the Caspian Sea ....half a packet of Camel cigs and then pull them up again.

[asmith]

Has a true communist country ever really produced a tier 1commercial product which requires manual labour?

Vodka got me through several cold nights

[asmith]

What about Havana Club, your statement is full of holes.

[asmith]

Not sure if you have heard of this but Chop Sticks, the Chinese are all over it

[El Presidente]

What about Havana Club, your statement is full of holes.

How come this village has two idiots?

Alcohol production (spirit) is a far more automated system than a hand crafted product.

[asmith]

How come this village has two idiots?

Alcohol production (spirit) is a far more automated system than a hand crafted product.

Well Village idiot One says, you can automate cigar production its just they choose not to and keep the population employed

[Kangaroo495]

Vodka got me through several cold nights

Let's not forget Kalashnikovs and space stations.

[El Presidente]

Well Village idiot One says, you can automate cigar production its just they choose not to and keep the population employed

Yes...that's the answer. A world full of Belinda and Los Statos cigars. Brilliant!

Wear your hat with the bells tomorrow

[Kangaroo495]

Re: Ken's idea. Obviously most of us FOHers would appreciate quality over colour. But again - WE ARE IN THE MINORITY. Why are people buying Monte Opens? Why are cigars getting fatter every year? Because they are the trends. And I'm 99% sure the same applies to colour. When Cuba starts putting different coloured cigars in their boxes - the majority of smokers will say "That's not cool!"

Also agree with the fact that there is a non-Capitalist mentality in the country. There can be no discussion of awards or individuality. It's just not possible.

The most that could be done is give the rollers certain colours of wrappers in the first place. Or simply pull the under/over filled cigars off the bloody line before they get to the shelf...

But when we're talking about "communists" even this is too much to ask... Trust me.

[El Presidente]

Let's not forget Kalashnikovs and space stations.

Anyone rescued the Russian Space Station recently?

I will pay the Kalishnakov. Most sensible suggestion so far

[Kangaroo495]

Yes...that's the answer. A world full of Belinda and Los Statos cigars. Brilliant!

Wear your hat with the bells tomorrow

Coincidentally, I smoked both of those last week, and thought they were pretty good!

[El Presidente]

I would like to take this opportunity to apologise to Ken for disparaging his comments re caviar and to admit that he was completely correct and that, as usual, I opened my mouth without thinking and I was utterly wrong.

I would also like to apologise for acting as the Habanos stooge and hijacking this thread to take it away from the topic at hand (and think Ken's idea is brilliant).

I also confess that he knows far more about rugby than me.

[asmith]

What about Russian Dolls, every house has a set of them things with at least one of the dolls missing a top half.

At this rate it might be quicker to start a list of crap things that Communist countries have produced cause the quality list is getting pretty long.

[asmith]

Wear your hat with the bells tomorrow

Can't...Ken still has it.

[El Presidente]

What about Russian Dolls, every house has a set of them things with at least one of the dolls missing a top half.

At this rate it might be quicker to start a list of crap things that Communist countries have produced cause the quality list is getting pretty long.

If your house has a set of Russian Ceramic Dolls....you will remain single.