La Gloria Cubana Marshall AKA Vegas Robaina Marshall

[Colt45]

Very interesting. Thanks for the follow ups and pics.

[demiurgic]

LOL, good one Fat Cigar.

HSA is getting into some fancy footwork here.

[ucla695]

Hi Rob, regarding the packaging.

I've just opened a box and it is stamped inside the lid TEB SEP08. I was under the impression that the boxes were not date stamped until just before release? BTW. Both boxes have a second old seal XV...... serial number, over the original JL.... serial number. Pulled the metal plaque off one box, and the La Gloria Cubana seal is present.

Can you enquire about this?

The stamp on the inside of the lid is one of the first things that caught my eye.

Every Friday around 10 - 20 people are invited ( to a factory to go over and taste blends for new cigars including Regional Releases). It is here that blends are determined in a blind tasting format (Gigar 1 2 & 3). It is from this tasting that blends are selected.

I'm intrigued by this. I think it would be great to be able to learn more about PCC's RE process...from embryology to production.

[Ozz1113]

With or without cigars, I like that box.

[Van55]

Advice has now been received form the distributors (Camelot) regarding the proposed 2008 La Gloria Cubana Marshall release.

Because of trade mark problems (Swedish Match registered La Gloria Cubana in Croatia and regions before Habanos SA did) the cigars had to be re-branded as Vegas Robaina.

As production was finalised before this fact was discovered, the cigars had to be re-banded and a metal plate was added to the 343Boxes (of 10) to cover the LGC brand.....note how the plate has been applied over the RE corner band.

The re-branded Marshalls have now been released.

I agree with your obeservation about the VR medallion being glued on top of the Habanos s.a. chevron. That fact STRONGLY suggests to me that the cigars were rolled and boxed as LGC's before the trademark issue came up. I, for one, simply can't buy Rob's explantion that no cigars were rolled before the Marca change was decided upon. If Habanos s.a. is the source of that explanation... well, it's well known that HSA execs occasionally tell a taradiddle regarding their business practices.

[Trevor2118]

I agree with your obeservation about the VR medallion being glued on top of the Habanos s.a. chevron. That fact STRONGLY suggests to me that the cigars were rolled and boxed as LGC's before the trademark issue came up. I, for one, simply can't buy Rob's explantion that no cigars were rolled before the Marca change was decided upon. If Habanos s.a. is the source of that explanation... well, it's well known that HSA execs occasionally tell a taradiddle regarding their business practices.

There were certainly some cigars rolled, propabily pre-production, with the LGC band. I will post pictures later today.

[El Presidente]

I can only tell you what was told me. If they panicked and did a shortcut on this one then they should burn in cigar hell.

Of course prototypes would be made. They always are.

The boxes would have been produced well and truly in advance of the cigars (and the change decision). No biggie for me the medallion over the LGC as who wants to waste money.

Simply the cigars are the question. Did they perform the utmost act of cigar sacrilege? As a general rule Regionals are rolled 6-9 months prior to distributor release to market.

Has anyone who was in Havana in 08/ first half 09 picked up one of these in a boxes LGC form? Some one must have as NO Regional Release has ever escaped a pre release purchase from Havana.

There would also be 250 LGC prototypes out there if true to form. They must be somewhere.

If they were indeed boxed and ready to go in LGC form....there must be some in the hands of collectors purchased from the factory manager. Whoever has one.....step on up and give closure to this one.

[Van55]

I can only tell you what was told me. If they panicked and did a shortcut on this one then they should burn in cigar hell.

Of course prototypes would be made. They always are.

The boxes would have been produced well and truly in advance of the cigars (and the change decision). No biggie for me the medallion over the LGC as who wants to waste money.

Simply the cigars are the question. Did they perform the utmost act of cigar sacrilege? As a general rule Regionals are rolled 6-9 months prior to distributor release to market.

Has anyone who was in Havana in 08/ first half 09 picked up one of these in a boxes LGC form? Some one must have as NO Regional Release has ever escaped a pre release purchase from Havana.

There would also be 250 LGC prototypes out there if true to form. They must be somewhere.

If they were indeed boxed and ready to go in LGC form....there must be some in the hands of collectors purchased from the factory manager. Whoever has one.....step on up and give closure to this one.

It's quite obvious that the boxes were ordered before the Marca change was made. Were the cigars rolled before as well? My guess is "yes." But is that a big deal to me? No. In my experience the regional edicions rarely share the characteristics of the Marca on the box. Witness the Bolivar Colassales and Bolivar Double Coronas. The RE's are supposedly one-off productions so who really cares, so long as they are great cigars worthy of the premium charged.

[android]

It's quite obvious that the boxes were ordered before the Marca change was made. Were the cigars rolled before as well? My guess is "yes." But is that a big deal to me? No. In my experience the regional edicions rarely share the characteristics of the Marca on the box. Witness the Bolivar Colassales and Bolivar Double Coronas. The RE's are supposedly one-off productions so who really cares, so long as they are great cigars worthy of the premium charged.

I agree!

[shortsqueeze]

This is a very interesting thread.

Has the issue of the box code been resolved? The couple times I've seen the boxing operation (one year at Partagas, one year at Upmann) cigars were in the boxes, and workers were applying warranty seals, Habanos chevrons and box codes. I was always under the impression box codes were applied either as they leave the factory, or shortly thereafter. So where does that leave us with the LGC/VR Marshall?

I agree the regionals I've had don't necessarily represent their brands well, or all the time. If Habanos just rebanded LGC blended cigars with RA bands, I would say at the very least this adds credibility to those who argue this happens more often than we'd like to think (at best).

[El Presidente]

I have to say Van that I do care !LOL!

sitting here on the rocking chair with a SLR Piramide (PCC Release). it is SLR through and through. How disappointed I would be if it tasted like a VR or Partagas.

I should be able to find out the truth of the VR release. No doubt it will be 4am somewhere in Havana when lips are looser.

At his point we can guess one way or the other. Still, a box of LGC has not turned up which is miraculous in itself.

[El Presidente]

This is a very interesting thread.

Has the issue of the box code been resolved? The couple times I've seen the boxing operation (one year at Partagas, one year at Upmann) cigars were in the boxes, and workers were applying warranty seals, Habanos chevrons and box codes. I was always under the impression box codes were applied either as they leave the factory, or shortly thereafter. So where does that leave us with the LGC/VR Marshall?

Also a question to those who have purchased them, is there any evidence of bands being previously removed? It is not an easy process (on fresh young cigars) and one which will leave a proportion of tell tale signs.

[shortsqueeze]

Rob,

An old timer once said this to me: What happens in the factories on any given day has as much to do with how much Havana Club is consumed as any other factor.

Probably true all over the world, just in some places it's vodka, others Scotch, etc.

[El Presidente]

Rob,

An old timer once said this to me: What happens in the factories on any given day has as much to do with how much Havana Club is consumed as any other factor.

Probably true all over the world, just in some places it's vodka, others Scotch, etc.

Don't get me wrong, I am no apologist for HSA. The fact is they are not good enough to conceal a scam like this if it was indeed performed. They my be telling the truth or they may not. If not, they will be caught out.

[Trevor2118]

Here's the photos mentioned above.

Note that the LGC band is a new type.

The cigars are actually the same size.

[Trevor2118]

Also a question to those who have purchased them, is there any evidence of bands being previously removed? It is not an easy process (on fresh young cigars) and one which will leave a proportion of tell tale signs.

Rob, I have two boxes....no indications of band removals on any of the cigars.

[El Presidente]

Thanks Trev.

Proto's are always rolled as we know.

Out of interest...who has smoked one?

[smll2]

Thanks Trev.

Proto's are always rolled as we know.

Out of interest...who has smoked one?

If they smoke great or good I'm interested....provided the price point fits my budget. I really don't care if there LGC's or VR's. In Cuba given the economic environment nothing IMHO should be surprising. They will do what they do and the consumer market will react positively or negatively and they wll adjust..albeit slowly. True aficionados will get their panties in a bunch about this...and I can't fault Rob and others as this is his thing and respectfully important to others as well. Rob's watching the fort.

The reality is that the majority...I think...guys like me are just looking for good cuban cigars to smoke at a price we can afford. As long as they do that I will continue be a good customer/prospect.

[El Presidente]

If they smoke great or good I'm interested....provided the price point fits my budget. I really don't care if there LGC's or VR's. In Cuba given the economic environment nothing IMHO should be surprising. They will do what they do and the consumer market will react positively or negatively and they wll adjust..albeit slowly. True aficionados will get their panties in a bunch about this...and I can't fault Rob and others as this is his thing and respectfully important to others as well. Rob's watching the fort.

The reality is that the majority...I think...guys like me are just looking for good cuban cigars to smoke at a price we can afford. As long as they do that I will continue be a good customer/prospect.

I should point out ....I DON"T SELL THEM

I haven't got a dog in this race. I am simply aiming to work through the herrings and establish the truth.

[smll2]

Curious if anyone heard back from Alen. I sent an inquiry...nothing yet.

[Colt45]

I'll be very interested to see how this all turns out (if it ever is truly clarified).

Trevor, assuming they're your cigars - what's the possibility of you smoking both the VR and LGC and reporting your findings?

[Trevor2118]

I'll be very interested to see how this all turns out (if it ever is truly clarified).

Trevor, assuming they're your cigars - what's the possibility of you smoking both the VR and LGC and reporting your findings?

Colt, they are mine but I only have a single LGC (I think), but plenty of the VR. I don't want to smoke the LGC, but I will smoke a few of the VR and see if I can determine if they are VR......but I'm really a poor judge of such things, as I'm not a great fan of the VR or LGC....but I'll do my best.

[BonVivant]

I would be very interested to smoke one, since LGC is one of my favorites of all time.

This is a very interesting topic!

[Colt45]

Colt, they are mine but I only have a single LGC (I think), but plenty of the VR. I don't want to smoke the LGC, but I will smoke a few of the VR and see if I can determine if they are VR......but I'm really a poor judge of such things, as I'm not a great fan of the VR or LGC....but I'll do my best.

Trev, I completely understand not smoking the single - but now I'm even more curious about a direct comparison of the two!

[Gursey]

I emailed an inquiry to the distributor listed under this posting, and received an email back stating I would have to wire the money to purchase 2 boxes of these. This was a couple weeks ago. They stated it was illegal to sell online, so that is why they don't have a site. Once the money was wired a couple weeks ago, I have received nothing back. No cigars, no emails, nada! I am now wondering if this distributor has turned scammer?