Cohiba Gran Reserva Press Release

[sje]

It's seems the info at hand recieved last week at the grand hyatt in sunny melb (if you know what I mean) will be close to the mark, i'll ask the question again , will they be 3 or 4 times better than currenlty available super premiums at 3 or 4 times the cost or are we now into brag factor with these cigars. Forget a box split on these , I am sure some may consider a cigar split over dinner (you know , take a puff and pAss it on,) kidding of course.

[El Presidente]

i'll ask the question again , will they be 3 or 4 times better than currenlty available super premiums at 3 or 4 times the cost or are we now into brag factor with these cigars. Forget a box split on these , I am sure some may consider a cigar split over dinner (you know , take a puff and pAss it on,) kidding of course.

I know it was not your intent but I think we run into the issue here of denigrating purchasers of these cigars...ie. "brag factor"

Good luck to people who have the means. The best bottle of wine in the world today can run at $3500. The same wineries make or JV with other producers to make $75 bottles of wine (very very good). Maybe it is just me but I don't see the wine community blasting the winery for producing $3500 wines which only 12 years ago could be purcased for $400. Again, here is a waiting list each year for these $3500 wines.

Now i will never purchase a bottle of $3500 wine. I won't purchase a bottle of $400 wine. I just don't get the utility and while I may be able to afford a rare occasional bottle of $400 wine it doesn't sit right or me. I feel guilty.

However I never begrudge some of my mates who take immense pleasure in sharing bottles of rare and expensive wine. It is their passion and they seek to experience the best, the ultimate, nirvana. Why judge them...sit back and allow them to enjoy something special.

[paesano]

I would take a box at the origional price of a $1000 even though it's 20% of my annual cigar money but it doesn't look like THAT'S gonna happen now. They are the largest splurge I have since I broke my back in 03 and haven't worked. I don't even drink anymore. We will see what happens. I await the news.

Cohiba GRAN RESERVA SIGLO VI

All cigars Only 5000 cases will be put on sale throughout the world.

Size: Length: 5 5/6" Ring Gauge:

Type: Cañonazo

Cigars per box: 15

Estimated Price is $1,000 about & $70 per stick

[mm12]

$1900 is probably going to be quite bit higher than what these cigars are sold for in other countries/regions. Many European vendors seem to be ridiculously expensive. Especially with Cohibas. $700 for a box of Coronas Especiales. 1k+ for a box of Esplendidos. Hopefully what they're charging for the Grand Reserva is equally inflated compared to the prices that can be found elsewhere.

[Colt45]

While I admit that I don't usually look forward to or get overly excited about new and / or special releases, I do find myself rather

curious about how these particular cigars pan out. My hope is that each and every cigar lives up to expectations.

[SethG]

I don't really remember 100/stick being anything other than wild rumor at the time. 1,900 is of course 125/stick.

Even at a 100/stick that would be an easy pass. Given the volume of these vs. the volume of similar items like the books, humidors etc.... There will be plenty of stock stuck around the world at good discounts in a few months. 75/stick seems more likely or even 50/stick given similar items. 750-1,125 is still fantastically more than they've ever gotten for Reserva boxes! 1,900 is quantity 500 stuff...

[sje]

Hi Rob, sorry and correct you are, it was not meant to denigrate buyers, with regards to the term Brag factor, the point was about cost compared to delivery. i myself in the past have been guilty of Brag purchases (silly in hindsight) (for me that is)

in car terms you have to spend an extra 2 million on a bugatti to get an extra 40 or 50 KMPH as compared to a Ferrari ?

so i am sorry if i offended anyone as this was not the point.

looking forward to your prices

spiro

[SethG]

Good luck to people who have the means. The best bottle of wine in the world today can run at $3500. The same wineries make or JV with other producers to make $75 bottles of wine (very very good). Maybe it is just me but I don't see the wine community blasting the winery for producing $3500 wines which only 12 years ago could be purcased for $400. Again, here is a waiting list each year for these $3500 wines.

As someone who actually purchases cigars like this on a regular basis I can say the analogy is very out of place for several reasons (although I think it could be dead on in 5-10 years and I hope it is):

1) Those wineries discard massive amounts of grapes that aren't up to spec, in manufacturing they call it the rejection rate. In OLED TV's it's like 75%+, First Growth wine's it has to be like 50% or more iirc (wine buff's correct me here) but Cuban cigars? Rejection rate of tobacco that is pretty good but not perfect is... 5% or less?

2) QC is off the charts for wine, I've bought more than one 75+ super-premium stick to find it plugged. Weigh 10 sticks out of an average box and what's the spread? I've seen 5-10g spreads on Romeo Romeo's!

3) Supply and Demand is massively different

4) There's QC issues in storage (before vendor) and transport (after vendor) that make these kinds of sticks risky to people from afar.

[El Presidente]

I don't really remember 100/stick being anything other than wild rumor at the time. 1,900 is of course 125/stick.

Even at a 100/stick that would be an easy pass. Given the volume of these vs. the volume of similar items like the books, humidors etc.... There will be plenty of stock stuck around the world at good discounts in a few months. 75/stick seems more likely or even 50/stick given similar items. 750-1,125 is still fantastically more than they've ever gotten for Reserva boxes! 1,900 is quantity 500 stuff...

Seth, I can confirm that at meetings and the launch they were targetting near enough $100 US a cigar. Again we have to keep in mind that the USD has depreciated significantly against all currencies since February 09 with the majority of the collapse coming in the last 90 days.

I will have a bet with you (a good cigar) that no legitimate retailer will have any box for sale under $1400 USD come 31 March 10 I can't see them being available period unless they are staggering the release.

Your point on the books is well made. All of a sudden they look remarkable value.

[Colt45]

I'm not RA, but.....

1) Those wineries discard massive amounts of grapes that aren't up to spec, in manufacturing they call it the rejection rate. In OLED TV's it's like 75%+, First Growth wine's it has to be like 50% or more iirc (wine buff's correct me here) but Cuban cigars? Rejection rate of tobacco that is pretty good but not perfect is... 5% or less?

I believe that's the point with these cigars - using the top percentile of aged tobaccos.

2) QC is off the charts for wine, I've bought more than one 75+ super-premium stick to find it plugged. Weigh 10 sticks out of an average box and what's the spread? I've seen 5-10g spreads on Romeo Romeo's!

No doubt QC will be a big test with these.

3) Supply and Demand is massively different

The absolute top burgundies, for example, have a very limited supply.

4) There's QC issues in storage (before vendor) and transport (after vendor) that make these kinds of sticks risky to people from afar.

This is absolutely true of wine as well - I've had cooked wines and VA tainted wines from all over the world.

[phxkev]

Perhaps my memory is failing me or perhaps the photos are deceiving me. I thought the Gran Reserva was essentially an aged Siglo VI vitola but the photos make them look like more of a robusto in size. What is the length and ring gauge?

[El Presidente]

As someone who actually purchases cigars like this on a regular basis I can say the analogy is very out of place for several reasons (although I think it could be dead on in 5-10 years and I hope it is):

1) Those wineries discard massive amounts of grapes that aren't up to spec, in manufacturing they call it the rejection rate. In OLED TV's it's like 75%+, First Growth wine's it has to be like 50% or more iirc (wine buff's correct me here) but Cuban cigars? Rejection rate of tobacco that is pretty good but not perfect is... 5% or less?

2) QC is off the charts for wine, I've bought more than one 75+ super-premium stick to find it plugged. Weigh 10 sticks out of an average box and what's the spread? I've seen 5-10g spreads on Romeo Romeo's!

3) Supply and Demand is massively different

4) There's QC issues in storage (before vendor) and transport (after vendor) that make these kinds of sticks risky to people from afar.

No problems at all with your line of thought. However to Clarify and here we need to take the Habanos word (difficult I know and that is part of the problem).

1. The best leaf from 03 was only selected for these cigars and that leaf came only from the two legendary districts.

2. Too early to judge quality on these although the fact they have been rolled by select rollers at El Laguito gives me some hope. One plugged cigar is one too many.

3. PCC don't have the supply to meet the demand at proposed full retail prices. That is our region but I suspect Phoenecia is in the same position.

4. Damn true. The risk is mitigated to some extent in that they were sent by HSA to all major distributors in the same week. Distributors have held them now for close to a month in their warehouses.

I think the biggest risk right now is that these cigars do not reach the zentih of those given out at the Gala dinner in February. There is no reason why they should not but it has happened before.

[El Presidente]

Hi Rob, sorry and correct you are, it was not meant to denigrate buyers, with regards to the term Brag factor, the point was about cost compared to delivery. i myself in the past have been guilty of Brag purchases (silly in hindsight) (for me that is)

in car terms you have to spend an extra 2 million on a bugatti to get an extra 40 or 50 KMPH as compared to a Ferrari ?

so i am sorry if i offended anyone as this was not the point.

looking forward to your prices

spiro

No sweat mate, I know you had no ill intent.

[Shelby07]

I wouldn't knock anyone who wants to pay a premium for any specific stick. As stated already, cigars are a passion for some, and if they want to buy a box or 2 to put away for special occasions for many years to come, that's just fine. The cigar isn't for everyone. If it was, they'd be making a hell of a lot more.

The car analogy is a good one. My Shelby GT500 is a perfect case. When they first came out they had anywhere from $10,000 - $50,000 dealer markups and people who were passionate about these cars paid it happily and still enjoy the car. In this case they paid a premium for something that sits in their garage most of the time. Most folks can't understand it, but for those who own them it doesn't really matter. And the extra 50-60KPH is really a non-issue as most of the people who buy them will never use the extra speed. But it's a passion. There's a joy in just owning it.

For those who eventually buy a box, good for you. I certainly can understand your passion.

[stang]

I wish I could affort some of these.

[SethG]

My point to wine is really in general the difference between the current French wine system and Cuban Cigars. Although, like I said, I'd like to see the Cuban cigars get there. The variation box-to-box is just too much to often take big investments. Then again every "book" cigar I've had has been excellent construction, so I'm more willing to buy books at their high prices.

I guess that's the point of the new Reserva label, to tell you it's the same quality as the book humidors and, if it is, then I can say that prices 75-100 per stick may well be worth it. 5,000 boxes is hard to roll on that quality scale though, at least from what I've seen. If Habanos pulls it off, where all the boxes are uniform QC and good.... well it would be a new beginning that will probably sustain higher prices.

PCC and Phoenicia must be bad markets to judge demand on right? Due to the collectors roaming HK and the Middle East (maybe I have the regions wrong?).

Put another way, with the amount of cigars I get suckered into buying every year, if I'm not getting an email offering me some then I would have to assume many big orders came in right away

[MIKA27]

Ladies and Gents, if my information is correct we may need to revisit this debate,

i am told cigars will be approx 150 to 180 AUD per stick retail in AU,

at these rates they need to be as good or better than Cuban Davidoffs or Dunhills from the 80s.

I agree!

We get royally shafted here in Australia. Don't get me started.

[El Presidente]

PCC and Phoenicia must be bad markets to judge demand on right? Due to the collectors roaming HK and the Middle East (maybe I have the regions wrong?).

Spot on Seth. Assuming distribution is roughly proportional then these two regions would get 1000 boxes (20%). That would be waiting lists alone. Europe would be entitled to 2800 boxes. Spain, UK, Germany would suck up 500 boxes each. France, Italy maybe half that, Holland, Sweden, Switzerland, Greece half again. Baltic states another 200. Russia ...whatever they get but they would move 500 on their ear.

We are way over 5000 already and we haven't covered the America's, Africa (North Africa/Ivory Coast is a very strong market and South Africa) nor Cuba itself.

[thechenman]

$1900...you gotta be shittin me...I know the value of the U.S. dollar is crapola right now, but come on. I know Habanos is charging what the market will bear, and there is of course nothing wrong with that...however, I think at $1900...they are charging more than I can bear. I was thinking of putting together a box split, but at that price, I'm not sure I could get it off the ground.

[reigndrop]

Ahh, can't justify spending that much, unless the dollar goes deflationary.

[Colt45]

My point to wine is really in general the difference between the current French wine system and Cuban Cigars.

For my part, I don't disagree at all - far from it. But in this case, I'm focusing specifically on this particular release. If these cigars

(each and every one) end up being the La Tache of Habanos, it might be harder to argue price / value.

If not....... there will probably be a few unhappy customers........

[mm12]

Maybe there's some hope here. I just ran across this in James Suckling's blog:

However, for those visitors who are interested in buying cigars, the shops in Havana have an excellent selection. In fact, you can buy pretty much what you want. I bought a box of the new Cohiba Gran Reserva at Club Habana yesterday for $756, and a couple of friends bought some boxes as well.

[FrankBlack]

Maybe there's some hope here. I just ran across this in James Suckling's blog:

just saw some online for $1900 a box and $126 for a single...

[broozer]

just saw some online for $1900 a box and $126 for a single...

how on earth can anyone rationalize paying $126 for a brand new cigar? i can get 20 YO davidoffs and dunhills cheaper than that. hell, if i want a cohiba that size i'll buy SIG VI's.

bruce

[MIKA27]

how on earth can anyone rationalize paying $126 for a brand new cigar? i can get 20 YO davidoffs and dunhills cheaper than that. hell, if i want a cohiba that size i'll buy SIG VI's.

bruce

And at $126 per stick, you can buy around 3 Siglo VI's. (Or close to here in Australia)