bunburyist Posted September 9, 2009 Share Posted September 9, 2009 article and another one Makes you wonder sometimes, when several lives are sacrificed to save one. I suppose they intended on making a clean extraction, but even the best laid plans... I hope Mr Farrell makes the most of the life others have laid down theirs for. In fact, that really applies to all of us. RIP those who aren't coming home. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandholm Posted September 9, 2009 Share Posted September 9, 2009 - around 40 000 people killed in traffic in the US ever year - 3,017 killed in terrorist attack ( plus around 6500 injured) in 2001 ( 9/11) around $250,000,000,000 has been spend by the US on the war in Afghanistan, Iraq is another $700,000,000,000 question is what would safe most American life's, rebuild the roads, employing more traffic police or go after some crazy guys... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bunburyist Posted September 9, 2009 Author Share Posted September 9, 2009 um, I was more focusing on the issue of the fallen in this isolated incident. Appreciate there are many different views on the conflict. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandholm Posted September 9, 2009 Share Posted September 9, 2009 um, I was more focusing on the issue of the fallen in this isolated incident. Appreciate there are many different views on the conflict. true, but 1: if there where no "war on terror", Stephen Farrell would not have been kidnapped, and no expensive rescue operation had to be carried out 2: "British commando and several others dead" would not been dead but as a former military who have served abroad in several conflicts, rescue operations are hard, hands down. You basically have no clue what you are up against so you go in silent and hard, stay under the radar but if something happens you turn everything on you have. In the operations I have sered all rescue operations where done on a voluntary basis. Ok if a fellow soldier where missing, everyone signed up, but a journalist, i would think twice, I did not ask him to go there... Is Stephen Farrell life more important then the British commander or "several others"? Well, they dont even say how many died or there name or function.. (i guess that if they where the kidnappers they would say that...) I think that answer your question what CNN and the commander of the operation thought... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colt45 Posted September 9, 2009 Share Posted September 9, 2009 1: if there where no "war on terror", Stephen Farrell would not have been kidnapped, and no expensive rescue operation had to be carried out2: "British commando and several others dead" would not been dead If there were no terrorists, there'd be no war on terror. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CigarmanTim Posted September 9, 2009 Share Posted September 9, 2009 If there were no terrorists, there'd be no war on terror. Exactly. Actually I think we should just cover our eyes and ears and pretend it doesn't exist. I would suspect a high percentage of the 40,000 deaths on our highways each year are do more to crazy driving than the quality of our roads. Fixing the roads would make but a little dimple in the rate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandholm Posted September 9, 2009 Share Posted September 9, 2009 Exactly. Actually I think we should just cover our eyes and ears and pretend it doesn't exist. I would suspect a high percentage of the 40,000 deaths on our highways each year are do more to crazy driving than the quality of our roads. Fixing the roads would make but a little dimple in the rate. no offense, but if i compare the road between Europe and US (east and west cost, never lived in the middle) a lot can be done with the road system, there is for example no 1:2 highways, pot holes..... Of course a lot of people drive like crazy, or reading a paper, on the phone or working on the computer, but that can be fixed with more police officers... and for the road, just a simple google away "A 1985 US study showed that about 34% of serious crashes had contributing factors related to the roadway or its environment." 34% is 13600 people... and now we are only talking about killed, how many dont get injured in traffic.. but just think of the cost, $250,000,000,000 and $700,000,000,000 and what can be done with that kind of money, that is a lot of school equipment, health care, police, firefighters... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bunburyist Posted September 9, 2009 Author Share Posted September 9, 2009 my thinking behind posting this thread was more to focus on the relatively common event of many lives being laid down to save one. You know what you're signing up for when you join up, but I hazard a guess that those who died had a lot more life in them than the reporter. The fact that the journo will hopefully use this gift to continue working in the free press struck me as somehow poignant. You can argue until the cows come home if the money spent on wars is a good idea - personally my view is either have it in their yard, or you have it in your own - but that's beside the point. The weight on Mr Farrell's conscience will be enormous, the pain of the young men's families even more so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tampa1257 Posted September 9, 2009 Share Posted September 9, 2009 Stephen Farrell was rescued by NATO's International Security Assistance Force The comments directed toward the US are in my opinion misplaced as they (the US) were not involved in this rescue mission. I am glad that Mr Farrell was rescued, and concur that he should not have been were he was to be captured. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandholm Posted September 9, 2009 Share Posted September 9, 2009 Stephen Farrell was rescued by NATO's International Security Assistance ForceThe comments directed toward the US are in my opinion misplaced as they (the US) were not involved in this rescue mission. I am glad that Mr Farrell was rescued, and concur that he should not have been were he was to be captured. Well, dont want to fight... but US is a part of ISAF, and the most soldiers in ISAF is from the US military, and the head of the force is General Stanley McChrystal and i guess the rescue operation where performed with his ok.. and the 2001 Invasion Forces where composed of American and British soldiers... but Stephen Farrell is British.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CigarmanTim Posted September 9, 2009 Share Posted September 9, 2009 Hey Bun... It was classless to highjack your post and I apologize for my part in it. Good article and a well intentioned post on your part. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bunburyist Posted September 9, 2009 Author Share Posted September 9, 2009 Hey Bun... It was classless to highjack your post and I apologize for my part in it. Good article and a well intentioned post on your part. Not at all Tim - never any animosity on this forum. Every man is entitled to his view and there are scant topics more provocative than our presence in Iraq and Afghanistan. In fact, I'll happily debate that issue as one of the best things I've found on this forum is the intelligent, mature and reasoned thinking that goes behind most posts. You are right, however, I was originally looking to gauge what people's opinions where on a mission like this, and their wider impact on us all. It reminds me of an old debate clip I once saw (perhaps Vietnam era) of a US marine officer pointing out to some journalists that should they ignore military advice, get themselves in a hot zone and even go so far as give away potentially mission critical information....it'll still be his boys who go in and dig them out. Such is the integrity of men at arms. Whilst I don't suppose Stephen Farrell was doing quite that, it just strikes me as tragic that others were willing to risk - and give - their lives to save him. An older man who shouldn't have been there, and arguably just because we like reading interesting articles in the news. Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thechenman Posted September 9, 2009 Share Posted September 9, 2009 Bun...fascinating post and thought provoking. I think that missions of this nature while extemely dangerous are essential for morale of a nation. It isn't just rescue missions in Iraq and Afghanistan that involves soldiers rescuing journalists, or any other person for that matter. Firemen do it every day, putting their lives on the line, not just to save people, but to save property (i.e., just look at what is happening in Southern California right now). Was their life worth protecting someones home for? Some may say no, but the fallen did. Policemen do it everyday as well, putting their lives on the line to protect the innocent and enforce laws. They die in the line of duty to not just protect people, but to enforce a code of law which we all should be living by. All of them make great sacrifices, but all of them accept the responsiblity when they take their oath. These men and women who sacrifice themselves for what they believe to be the greater good should certainly be honored, and while their deaths are tragic, I would like to say that they thought the sacrifice of themselves and any potential collateral damage was worth the effort of trying to save the journalist and transaltor. And even if they didn't think that way, they had the wherewithall to understand their commitment and their oath to their country, and execute a plan that was potentially for the greater good for something greater than themselves, or any other individual. I am sad to say that I really don't think most people out there would understand that level of dedication, sacrifice, or honor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matt14 Posted September 9, 2009 Share Posted September 9, 2009 British special forces doing what they do best. Operations such as this need to be carried out in my opion just a much for the troops morale as well as obviously rescuing the captives much more so when they are getting attacked in the most cowardly way, by suicide bombers and roadside IED`s. Its never going to be a war in the conventional sense. Its not that long ago that captured prsoners where last seen on the internet being horrifically executed. Spare a thought for what their families went through and a rescue attempt seems a lot more acceptable. Noone wants to see that, wether they are the family friends or The unlucky soldier that was killed had signed up to serve his country and being a commando ( unsure wether or not he was a Royal Marine or commando trained other regiment) he would have been highly trained and more than likley chomping at the bit to go and do his job to the best of his ability. The war correspondents are a rare breed apart, I recently met Tim Page journalist/photographer through a friend of mine, he is a British guy famous in the American war (where I live, you would know it as the Vietnam war!) he is making a last attempt to find the unmarked grave in Cambodia of his friend from that time Sean Flynn , actor Errol Flynn`s son. Amazing stories and pics, also has some awesome pics from his time spent in Cuba. Until I met and spent time chatting with Tim I never really understood the role they played. But they take risks above and beyond to get the full story out to the public, without them then people wouldnt be able to have their opinions wether they are for or against. Try walking a mile in their boots Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmy2 Posted September 10, 2009 Share Posted September 10, 2009 If you were in the the REPORTERs shoes you would want the Military to save you a$$ !!!!! I lost Family and Friends at the Twin Towers (911) and i was their if not in my shoes than some across the world do not understand Afghanistan was a must .Afghanistan was left alone !!! and the 911 attacks were planned their in that country . And may all troops fightning these evil Dogs !!!! God Bless you all and may you kill many more and please dont forget why we are their never people!!! These people have no regard for life and kill with no guilt if you dont follow their rule of law and you are all next if they are not takin out now. Your Compassion is their Strength.. Never forgetting is our path to Victory.. I will say no more..Thank You http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/sep/0...lomat-questions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken Gargett Posted September 10, 2009 Share Posted September 10, 2009 If there were no terrorists, there'd be no war on terror. exactly. and although not specifically on point of this thread, the soldiers do sign up for the job, which doesn't in any way lessen the tragedy. sometimes journos and others run risks (not saying this applies here) and just assume that as soon as they are in strife, they will be saved. how often have sen idiots in solo sailing efforts in seriously dangerous seas south of australia get into huge trouble and our navy has to run off and save them - often in risky seas and at huge cost. and then they do it again. or sell their story for a fortune. save them yes, but if they have done something idiotic in the first place, they can pay for the rescue. might make a few of them think. and one chance only. if you get back in your upturned thimble and sail off into those same dangerous seas and expect to be rescued again, tough. which is now completely off the topic. apols for that. today's rant over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thechenman Posted September 10, 2009 Share Posted September 10, 2009 exactly. and although not specifically on point of this thread, the soldiers do sign up for the job, which doesn't in any way lessen the tragedy. sometimes journos and others run risks (not saying this applies here) and just assume that as soon as they are in strife, they will be saved. how often have sen idiots in solo sailing efforts in seriously dangerous seas south of australia get into huge trouble and our navy has to run off and save them - often in risky seas and at huge cost. and then they do it again. or sell their story for a fortune. save them yes, but if they have done something idiotic in the first place, they can pay for the rescue. might make a few of them think. and one chance only. if you get back in your upturned thimble and sail off into those same dangerous seas and expect to be rescued again, tough. which is now completely off the topic. apols for that. today's rant over. Well said... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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