2009 Limited Editions

[PigFish]

I'm sure they will make it into your humidor. You know, that big room with all the cigars that you pretend is your office. Seriously though, Piggy makes excellent points that really got me thinking a lot about regular production vs. special releases. My income and budget no doubt pigeon-holes me into the consumer bracket and not the collector one. I smoke what I buy now, and many of them. Bottom line for me, is 90% of specials just are not that much better to justify buying them by the box. Love to try them, hate to buy them...

My friend here is where I take a difference with you, rhetorically speaking that is. One is truly not pigeonholed by regular production Cuban cigars. Regular production is not only the backbone of all the world's greatest cigars (MHO) but, the right regular production cigars, excel beyond those cigars of the 'highbrow specialty' market. Some of course will differ with me. As my late father used to say, "there is an ass for every seat." Thankfully (for H SA) some of you will subsidize my smoking of the 'lesser cigars' by your purchase of the "others!"

Being 'relegated' to regular production, whether by economics or by design is in my opinion a blessing, not a curse. Knowing the cigars that will have the highest probability of performance is part luck, part hearsay but mainly experience; knowing what you like to smoke. I will be happy to eat crow when it, if it, becomes gospel that a cigars superior tastes can be determined by the shiny box, the double bands or the high ticket price. When that happens my experience will rendered null and void, the poles may reverse polarity and likely devil will fly south because his abode will have frozen over! -The Pig

[sounddust]

Yes... as a child I did stick a paperclip into a wall outlet! -Piggy

So did I, although I made amends by sticking a pencil into it later.

[Smooth]

I typed a few sentences but had to delete them all as they weren't appropriate for the forum.

All I can say is I will buy a few singles as always and will wish I had spent the same $$$ (precious at my age) on twice the volume of some brilliant regular production cigars.

[perfectform]

My friend here is where I take a difference with you, rhetorically speaking that is. One is truly not pigeonholed by regular production Cuban cigars. Regular production is not only the backbone of all the world's greatest cigars (MHO) but, the right regular production cigars, excel beyond those cigars of the 'highbrow specialty' market. Some of course will differ with me. As my late father used to say, "there is an ass for every seat." Thankfully (for H SA) some of you will subsidize my smoking of the 'lesser cigars' by your purchase of the "others!"

Being 'relegated' to regular production, whether by economics or by design is in my opinion a blessing, not a curse. Knowing the cigars that will have the highest probability of performance is part luck, part hearsay but mainly experience; knowing what you like to smoke. I will be happy to eat crow when it, if it, becomes gospel that a cigars superior tastes can be determined by the shiny box, the double bands or the high ticket price. When that happens my experience will rendered null and void, the poles may reverse polarity and likely devil will fly south because his abode will have frozen over! -The Pig

LOL...funny stuff. Pig, I wasn't arguing that specials beat out regular production or thinking wishfully about being able to buy nothing but the specials. I was simply musing on the fact that I've come back down to earth so to speak, in terms or living (or trying anyway) to live within my means. And that means smoking some damn fine (regular production) smokes. Preachin' to the choir brother!

[PigFish]

LOL...funny stuff. Pig, I wasn't arguing that specials beat out regular production or thinking wishfully about being able to buy nothing but the specials. I was simply musing on the fact that I've come back down to earth so to speak, in terms or living (or trying anyway) to live within my means. And that means smoking some damn fine (regular production) smokes. Preachin' to the choir brother!

I understand. Some persons like myself drool! I expectorate via a keyboard!!! -LOL My ruler is holstered and your knuckles have been once more spared! -LOL

[perfectform]

I understand. Some persons like myself drool! I expectorate via a keyboard!!! -LOL My ruler is holstered and your knuckles have been once more spared! -LOL

And you've avoided becoming "just another brick in the wall"

[PigFish]

And you've avoided becoming "just another brick in the wall"

Truly one of the best performances I have ever witnessed. They even brought Old Pink's pig!

[perfectform]

Truly one of the best performances I have ever witnessed. They even brought Old Pink's pig!

I wish I was old enough only to be able to echo your statement. Or not. "Dogs" was always my favorite "Animal"

[IceChant]

PigFish,

I agree with most of the things you say but I think that LE's does allow some playing with blends that we might not see in the regular lines, some LE's and RE's are good but most aren't that good for their price.

[bolivr]

Maybe next year the thin-ring ELs will come out.

I know, I know...

[Fuzz AI]

Maybe next year the thin-ring ELs will come out.

I know, I know...

Keep praying, maybe someone will hear you. In the mean time...

[canucks6024]

As the proud owner of some RE Canada Simones, I must say that the Boli's look tempting but I'm waiting to see what it'll cost compared to the RE. I would assume much more

[BobLobLaw]

Is noone interested in the Mag 48? After hearing raves about the Mag 50 EL and loving recent Mag 46 and reg production Mag 50 these are the ones I would be most interested in. But in the back of my mind I feel the dark EL wrapper might be overpowering.

In any case, I agree with that has been said and there are a lot of cigars I want first, but in terms of just EL's the Upmanss have my attention the most.

[Colt45]

Is noone interested in the Mag 48? After hearing raves about the Mag 50 EL and loving recent Mag 46 and reg production Mag 50 these are the ones I would be most interested in.

If I may, I'll answer you're question with a question:

If the Mag 48 is similar in flavor to the 46 and / or 50 - Upmann in general even - are you willing to shell out the extra $$ they might command as ELs,

or would you simply purchase more 46s / 50s?

[BobLobLaw]

If I may, I'll answer you're question with a question:

If the Mag 48 is similar in flavor to the 46 and / or 50 - Upmann in general even - are you willing to shell out the extra $$ they might command as ELs,

or would you simply purchase more 46s / 50s?

Thats valid. I only have one Mag 50EL so I cannot comment on the Upmann "EL profile" I just know it got rave reviews, so much in fact that the Mag 50 is now a regular production cigar. Based on that I would have thought there would be more interest in a new Upmann EL.

I also did not realize that the new Mag 48 was so short (I assumed it would be in between the 46 and 50 in length) and actually retract my previous statement that I am looking forward to it.

New plan is to see/hear peoples thoughts and go from there. Overall I am losing more and more interest in the bigger fatter smokes.

[Colt45]

I also did not realize that the new Mag 48 was so short (I assumed it would be in between the 46 and 50 in length) and actually retract my previous statement that I am looking forward to it.

New plan is to see/hear peoples thoughts and go from there. Overall I am losing more and more interest in the bigger fatter smokes.

Don't get me wrong - they may very well be great cigars worthy of our attention. But I guess it comes down to the value each of us will

place on these versus the 46, 50, et al.

[Ken Gargett]

So did I, although I made amends by sticking a pencil into it later.

i just convinced other kids to do it. so much more satisfying in every way.

[Ken Gargett]

until we actually see and taste these cigars, a great deal of this speculation is a bit pointless.

the EL's have thrown up some pleasant surprises - the cuaba pyramide for example - and it has also been a source of what i think are some of the greatest cigars of the last decade (cohiba DC's, sublimes, hoyo pyramides and so) and also some of the most dire and diabolical - witness the dreaded monte C. so i think a bit early to say where these will fall. and the fact that so often the LE's do not seem to follow the family DNA makes it all even more pointless.

but all that said, the problem with them for me, has become the cost which seems to be on an ever increasing upward spiral at a rate of knots. in the early days, some of the LE's were fantastic value (i remember buying those early pyramides for US$130 a box and for some bizarre reason, when havana did its regular price bump, the LE's were often forgotten and remained at their former lower prices - in cuba at least).

unless every release falls into the great cigar category - and good luck with that - they are heading to the levels where they will price themselves out of the market. i used to try and make certain i got a box or at least a sampling of every one in the early days (about the only one i missed was the one trev's been chasing). now it is very rare that i buy any. i am keen to see where this lot fall but i no longer see the value in LE's and i suspect i am not alone.

[Colt45]

until we actually see and taste these cigars, a great deal of this speculation is a bit pointless.

but all that said, the problem with them for me, has become the cost which seems to be on an ever increasing upward spiral at a rate of knots.

Of course, Ken. But cost is a factor and becoming a problem. Let's look at the Cuaba Piramide in your example.

Is it equal to or better than the best of the Montecristo No.2? Is it worth the premium over the best M2?

Is it worth the premium simply because of it's unique size in the line?

[Froggy]

Damn, slurrppp.... think I could literally EAT those Bolivars. It is a sin to post such pics, you vile tempter!!!

[Ken Gargett]

Of course, Ken. But cost is a factor and becoming a problem. Let's look at the Cuaba Piramide in your example.

Is it equal to or better than the best of the Montecristo No.2? Is it worth the premium over the best M2?

Is it worth the premium simply because of it's unique size in the line?

that is pretty much what i was getting at. cost has become a negative factor for these. my only difference to your thoughts here would be that the premium doesn't or shouldn't have a lot to do with different sizes (probably not unfair for habanos to incorporate a small premium for a one-off, dofferent sized cigar) but the premium should relate to quality. in a few cases, the premium is certainly worth it - the cohiba DC's for a much used example - but in many others it isn't. when these were cheaper or at the very least, not a lot more expensive than regular lines, no problem. now, with the premium these bring, they have to be fantastic cigars. if not, they'll quickly become dinosaurs.

[El Presidente]

Of course, Ken. But cost is a factor and becoming a problem. Let's look at the Cuaba Piramide in your example.

Is it equal to or better than the best of the Montecristo No.2? Is it worth the premium over the best M2?

Is it worth the premium simply because of it's unique size in the line?

The LE "concept" was the premium payed is justified by the cigars uniqueness, quality and one off production. Technically, you will be able to purchase Montecristo No 2 any year into the future. However the Cuaba Piramide LE was only produced in 2008.

Now the key element is uniqueness, quality and distinctiveness.

Where they have nailed it the initial investment has been returned. Cohiba DC, Cohiba Sublimes, Partagas Pirimide, R&J SD3, HDM Pirimide etc have doubled in value. More importantly they have earned a legendary place in the Cigar echelon.

Now too many LE's have been so so. That is not good enough for the premium payed.

The concept works when HSA sticks to the key concept of exceptional unique cigars.

[Colt45]

KG, I totally agree on both cost and quality.

perhaps call it the EL equation:

cost ≠ quality

[Ken Gargett]

Where they have nailed it the initial investment has been returned. Cohiba DC, Cohiba Sublimes, Partagas Pirimide, R&J SD3, HDM Pirimide etc have doubled in value. More importantly they have earned a legendary place in the Cigar echelon.

Now too many LE's have been so so. That is not good enough for the premium payed.

The concept works when HSA sticks to the key concept of exceptional unique cigars.

and this is also where there is every chance that the regional release concept will come unstuck as well.

[ucla695]

I'm also most excited with the Bolis....can't wait.