Ice bridge ruptures in Antarctic

[OZCUBAN]

Hi All

An Ice bridge ruptures in Antarctic: Global warming Blamed....

Here is a link http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/7984054.stm

Troubling times ahead I think (not want u need on top of a world wide recession)

Fixing the problem, If actually broken!!! will necessitate we all change the way we live & will cost money lots I would imagine.

When possible I always like to look at the glass as half full.

But will Greed and money win out over the safety and ongoing relevance of our planet...

Will think it over more over a long cigar churchill or double corona

Cheers

Oz Cuban

[MIKA27]

This is terrible news OZ.

I tend to agree with you on this where I believe money is a bigger issue for governments than the lives and safety of us, the people.

I don't wish to turn this into anything political....

Even if we all decided right now to change our habits, I don't believe this is an easy or quick fix. In fact, I believe this resolution will be inherited by our childrens children before we see any reasonable changes in the environment that benefit our lives.

[shrink]

An Ice bridge ruptures in Antarctic: Global warming Blamed....

When possible I always like to look at the glass as half full.

Well, how about "An Ice barrier overcome in Antarctic: Global warming Credited!"

[patman24]

Even if we all decided right now to change our habits, I don't believe this is an easy or quick fix. In fact, I believe this resolution will be inherited by our childrens children before we see any reasonable changes in the environment that benefit our lives.

x2!

[patman24]

Even if we all decided right now to change our habits, I don't believe this is an easy or quick fix. In fact, I believe this resolution will be inherited by our childrens children before we see any reasonable changes in the environment that benefit our lives.

x2!

[patman24]

oh oh, I hit reply too many times...

[OZCUBAN]

Well, how about "An Ice barrier overcome in Antarctic: Global warming Credited!"

Good one

[kilroy]

I'm not saying man-made climate change does or doesn't exist. I don't know. All I know is that its the arrogance of the human race that assumes anything that goes wrong around them is there fault. That and people would rather believe that things are their fault so that they don't have to feel helpless against forces that they cannot control.

"We made this, we can fix it. We won't actually fix it, but we'll say that we want to fix it. If it fixes itself we'll pat ourselves on the back and say 'good job'. If it keeps getting worse hopefully it'll happen slow enough that we can all mentally acclimate ourselves to what is happening."

Knowing the human race we'll wind up doing more damage trying to fix something we probably didn't even cause in the first place. And besides... people need to grasp the bigger picture... if it gets warmer that's fine... if it gets colder... we're all going to be in a giant hurt locker!

[El Presidente]

I don't want to be flippant but i prefer warmer weather

Unless I am wrong, only one thing will reverse the global trends......ditch our dependence on oil.

[Jimmy2]

Global warming is natural we have only been taking weather records for about 100 years and thats it so what do we know .

Mother nature will heal herself like she has for many many years she been around alot longer than any of us.

Hell we even been through an Ice age for petes sake who caused that one ?

Also how many times has a weather man been wrong about the weather ?

[kilroy]

I don't want to be flippant but i prefer warmer weather

Unless I am wrong, only one thing will reverse the global trends......ditch our dependence on oil.

I should say you do like warmer weather! How often does is snow in Queensland?

[sandholm]

I dont want to get into a flame war, but as a scientist and interested in the question i just want to correct some things.

Global warming is natural we have only been taking weather records for about 100 years and thats it so what do we know .

Wrong and Right, yes we have only taken weather records for around 150 years, BUT this is nothing that are used to produce this kind of forecast. Instead scientist drill down into deep ice packs, and from the amount of different isotope its pretty easy to calculate backwards the temperature and other climate factors.

More info about temperature records, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Temperature_record

Mother nature will heal herself like she has for many many years she been around alot longer than any of us.

Well, both correct and wrong. Mother earth can probably cope with this, but that's not the question. The question is if YOU, humans, can cope with this.

I bet that you probably will not survive a nuclear world war, but "mother nature will" and also cockroaches, heavily mutated cockroaches....

Hell we even been through an Ice age for petes sake who caused that one ?

Ohoo yes, this is my favorite statement and its true. Climate has not stayed the same, there has been alteration in temperature. BUT and that is a major BUT, those cycles has taken thousands of years to raise one degree. We have done that over the last decades. These increase can not be explained with any of the reasons that has increased the temperature before. The only difference between the last ice age and our increase of temperature ( yes, there is a conneciton between them) is that man didn't burn fossil fuel then.

Another thing, The Alps has always had permafrost, for 2-3 years ago the permafrost went away. During no heat period before has this happen. I have no idea how they conclude this, but its a fact and that is a major change.

Also how many times has a weather man been wrong about the weather ?

Weather man? Where did you get that from. They have nothing to do with this.

Something is happening, and maybe we cant do something, maybe it has gone to far, but why not try, why just sit on the arse and see the s#hit hit the fan. Or we can do something and change it, there is no one, expect the arabic world, who will lose for us to switch from fossil fuel to renewable fuel

.. well, i wont deal with this anymore,

i will only say as a professor said during a lecture for a long long time ago "facts my friend, facts, stick to facts, even if it kills your theory, even if it proves that your research is complete garbage, facts, nothing else, publish it and defend it even if the rest of the world will see you as mad man, but never ever alter it"

cheers

[kjellfrick]

I dont want to get into a flame war, but as a scientist and interested in the question i just want to correct some things.

Wrong and Right, yes we have only taken weather records for around 150 years, BUT this is nothing that are used to produce this kind of forecast. Instead scientist drill down into deep ice packs, and from the amount of different isotope its pretty easy to calculate backwards the temperature and other climate factors.

More info about temperature records, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Temperature_record

Well, both correct and wrong. Mother earth can probably cope with this, but that's not the question. The question is if YOU, humans, can cope with this.

I bet that you probably will not survive a nuclear world war, but "mother nature will" and also cockroaches, heavily mutated cockroaches....

Ohoo yes, this is my favorite statement and its true. Climate has not stayed the same, there has been alteration in temperature. BUT and that is a major BUT, those cycles has taken thousands of years to raise one degree. We have done that over the last decades. These increase can not be explained with any of the reasons that has increased the temperature before. The only difference between the last ice age and our increase of temperature ( yes, there is a conneciton between them) is that man didn't burn fossil fuel then.

Another thing, The Alps has always had permafrost, for 2-3 years ago the permafrost went away. During no heat period before has this happen. I have no idea how they conclude this, but its a fact and that is a major change.

Weather man? Where did you get that from. They have nothing to do with this.

Something is happening, and maybe we cant do something, maybe it has gone to far, but why not try, why just sit on the arse and see the s#hit hit the fan. Or we can do something and change it, there is no one, expect the arabic world, who will lose for us to switch from fossil fuel to renewable fuel

.. well, i wont deal with this anymore,

i will only say as a professor said during a lecture for a long long time ago "facts my friend, facts, stick to facts, even if it kills your theory, even if it proves that your research is complete garbage, facts, nothing else, publish it and defend it even if the rest of the world will see you as mad man, but never ever alter it"

cheers

Well stated, Sandholm. As a (former) scientist I agree very much with your perspective on this. I'm not in the field of climatology (ecology is my field) but it seems to me there's good reason to take this development seriously.

I'm not that optimistic, though. The change from fossil fuels to alternative energy sources is a process full of pitfalls, ripe with environmental problems even in the case of the renewable energy sources, and ultimately I don't think the energy and resource equation will give us all what we want - food, water and energy in adequate quantities. But I guess that is something many people don't want to see... But hey, if anybody know the solution to that, write it here and enlighten me!

[OZCUBAN]

What will climate change do to CUBA'S climate ?

[Chicago]

I'm not saying man-made climate change does or doesn't exist. I don't know. All I know is that its the arrogance of the human race that assumes anything that goes wrong around them is there fault. That and people would rather believe that things are their fault so that they don't have to feel helpless against forces that they cannot control.

"We made this, we can fix it. We won't actually fix it, but we'll say that we want to fix it. If it fixes itself we'll pat ourselves on the back and say 'good job'. If it keeps getting worse hopefully it'll happen slow enough that we can all mentally acclimate ourselves to what is happening."

Knowing the human race we'll wind up doing more damage trying to fix something we probably didn't even cause in the first place. And besides... people need to grasp the bigger picture... if it gets warmer that's fine... if it gets colder... we're all going to be in a giant hurt locker!

Amen to that, brother. I know people who spend more time researching this and actually claim the world is getting colder! Yes, it appears things are warming up. I am not so sure that humans are the only cause or that we can stop the process.

The biggest offenders are the oceans! The oceans are releasing vast quantities of methane or (is it CO2?), the more that is released, the faster goes the process. That is scary. How are humans going to control this?

[Jimmy2]

What about the cows farting ?

[Mr Peales]

What will climate change do to CUBA'S climate ?

It probably will change, it'll get just a little hotter in mid-summer. Just hot enough to kill off some little bug that feeds on other tiny bugs in the tobacco fields. Then, these tiny bugs will multiply and **** all over the leaves. This blanket of **** will then fertilize a purple mold that will decimate the crop. We very well may be smoking moldy crap in the future. That's how mother nature solves problems. Mother-nature; what does she care about our cigars? She is more temperamental than any women on earth... right? Do we really want to give this 'mother' another Martini?

[sandholm]

Amen to that, brother. I know people who spend more time researching this and actually claim the world is getting colder! Yes, it appears things are warming up. I am not so sure that humans are the only cause or that we can stop the process.

The biggest offenders are the oceans! The oceans are releasing vast quantities of methane or (is it CO2?), the more that is released, the faster goes the process. That is scary. How are humans going to control this?

There are people who try to prove that the world is flat, or creationism, but that dont make it true.

No, the biggest offenders arnt oceans, but due to the warm up of the climet the ocean cant hold Co2 as much when its warm as when its cold. The same with the frozen tundra, which hold huge quantities of Co2 and methan gas, and when it defrost this will be released and increase the temperature even more.

How we are going to control it? Stop releasing greenhouse gases, quite simple, problem is if we want to change and want to change our behavior, but right now we are acting more like parasites then humans.

[sandholm]

What about the cows farting ?

OMG..

Cows eat grass, grass use Co2 when it grows, this comes to a 1:1 relationship and are no problem, check your high school biology books

Actually, its not 100% true, there is not really a 1:1 relationship, because when farming the tractor use disel, and this release green house gases, but if the cows goes outside and eat grass direct from the field, there is a 1:1 relationship.

have a nice day..

[El Presidente]

I have enjoyed your posts Sandholm

The immediate answer appears to be pretty clear....eliminate (as best we can) Fossil Fuels.

50 years tax free status for renewable energy companies would be a great start. 150% tax deductability for homeowners of all appproved renewable energy initiatives (including approved motor vehicles) would be another.

[sandholm]

Well stated, Sandholm. As a (former) scientist I agree very much with your perspective on this. I'm not in the field of climatology (ecology is my field) but it seems to me there's good reason to take this development seriously.

I'm not that optimistic, though. The change from fossil fuels to alternative energy sources is a process full of pitfalls, ripe with environmental problems even in the case of the renewable energy sources, and ultimately I don't think the energy and resource equation will give us all what we want - food, water and energy in adequate quantities. But I guess that is something many people don't want to see... But hey, if anybody know the solution to that, write it here and enlighten me!

Hej Kjell (jepp, jag är svensk)

Cool to have another scientist here, I am neither in climatology, instead I work in biomechanics, can be described as a mixture of medicine and science.

and as you, I am not that optimistic, I think that some countries has changed or are changing there mind from oil to more renewable fuel. The problem is the major polluters and there unwillingness to change, like implement the Kyoto Protocol and not just sign it (and for some countries to sign it)

Just take the alps, there is so many glaciers that are gone, and thats just happen the last years. To get up to Mere de glace its a 30 min train ride, then a 40 min hike/climb, this glacier once threatened to destroy Chamonix. We have more extream weathes, more huricans...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Effects_of_global_warming

Personal i think the race is lost, just look at the thermohaline circulation problem, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shutdown_of_t...ine_circulation when the gulfstream we can forget the caribien, south-west of us, and the nordic countries, and thats just a start.

The problem is that some people dont view the fact, instead they see this from a political point of view, and then it comes down to believes and not facts.

Bottom line if this happens, no cuban cigars....

[El Presidente]

There is some hope Sandholm

Remember the Ozone hole in the southern ocean. Covered a significant part of Australia and New Zealand. Because it directly affected us here it was armageddon with Newspapers and nightly news running its rate of growth almost daily. We were only going to be able to come out at night

The Ozone Hole retracted. It varies year to year but actually has continued to contract when looked at a 5 year timeframes.

Why? Baning use of CFC (unliklely to have such a dramtic affect so quickly). No one really knows. This example is not to raise an argument that nothing should be done about global warming. Only that perhaps if we start in small/medium steps arresting the process.....mother nature may lend a hand.

[sandholm]

There is some hope Sandholm

Remember the Ozone hole in the southern ocean. Covered a significant part of Australia and New Zealand. Because it directly affected us here it was armageddon with Newspapers and nightly news running its rate of growth almost daily. We were only going to be able to come out at night

The Ozone Hole retracted. It varies year to year but actually has continued to contract when looked at a 5 year timeframes.

Why? Baning use of CFC (unliklely to have such a dramtic affect so quickly). No one really knows. This example is not to raise an argument that nothing should be done about global warming. Only that perhaps if we start in small/medium steps arresting the process.....mother nature may lend a hand.

You are right, just sit still and do nothing is just stupid, and as you say, baby step, we cant change the world over night. Just if people start to turn of lights in rooms they are not in.

How many people turn of there computers when they go home? When i lived in the US we invited some neighbors for a BBQ, the closest where next door, the farthest away where 10 houses away, most people used there car!!!!

Banning CFC and other chemicals that we know are, both bad for us and the environment goes without a saying, also put taxes or fines using substances that pollute, give tax reduction when buying fuel efficient cars or change from oil to other heating methods, thats a really good start. Also but more pressure on the oil companies.

We have to do something, and pretty fast.

[Chicago]

There is some hope Sandholm

Remember the Ozone hole in the southern ocean. Covered a significant part of Australia and New Zealand. Because it directly affected us here it was armageddon with Newspapers and nightly news running its rate of growth almost daily. We were only going to be able to come out at night

The Ozone Hole retracted. It varies year to year but actually has continued to contract when looked at a 5 year timeframes.

Why? Baning use of CFC (unliklely to have such a dramtic affect so quickly). No one really knows. This example is not to raise an argument that nothing should be done about global warming. Only that perhaps if we start in small/medium steps arresting the process.....mother nature may lend a hand.

This is exactly my point. Why are we so arrogant to beleive that we can solver this problem overnight? Pres Obama's team is considering launching "pollution bombs" into our atmosphere to block out the harmful rays. Is that Crazy or what?

[sandholm]

This is exactly my point. Why are we so arrogant to beleive that we can solver this problem overnight? Pres Obama's team is considering launching "pollution bombs" into our atmosphere to block out the harmful rays. Is that Crazy or what?

Well, as a scientist i can say if that is crazy or not, because I cant say what is consider to be "pollution bombs" or what they would do. Also, "harmful rays", i would guess you mean UV.

So no, cant say anything without the FACTS!!!!

Most ideas that has changed the world has been considered crazy, no one believe Albert Einsteins theory because it was "crazy". A quite funny twist, when Albert Einstein heard about x-ray he didn't believe it, until he saw it with his own eyes, and changed his mind. Remember the Einstein where an mathematician working with physics problem, he was an cigar smoker also.

If these "pollution bombs" has been proved to be useful, why not? Its better to do something then do absolute nothing.

Its very easy to criticize science/politicians and I think that most people love doing it, mostly politicians. Because it takes the responsible away from you and you can blame someone else. "If we cant fix it, well, then I dont have to change my life or even do an effort." It takes away the blame and easy our conscience. I would guess that most people who love criticize politicians would never ever have the balls to become one, because if they do they cant blame anyone except themselves.

So you cant judge anything without having the facts and the knowledge to judge it.

If you basement becomes flooded, would you apply the same theory? Because you will not solve it over night either, but if you start getting the water out during the first days and then fix the pluming you will probably be fine.

facts my friends, facts...