From a buyers perspective. Some suggestions for HSA.

[El Presidente]

I have wanted to start a positive thread on suggestions for HSA from a buyers perspective.

You know well that this forum is read almost daily by HSA so I want this to be a positive experience of positive suggestions and thoughts from people who spend their hard earned moola on their product.

Give it some thought. Instead of posting, bring back *********** take into account they failed to sell previously in numbers required so perhaps suggest a different slant or packaging etc.

Put on a HSA hat. You are CEO. Write as if you as HSA CEO are going to read what is written and give it due consideration. If you believe they are doing somethings right...let them know.

Maybe...just maybe some pearls of idea's will be forthcoming.

[Colt45]

A couple things come to mind, but I'll start with something that was briefly discussed recently:

I wouldn't mind seeing the maduro wrapper used on a somewhat more "potent" cigar - Partagas

SdC, Bolivar pc, etc. Not necessarily an expansion of the maduro series, and certainly not to be

considered along the lines of ELs or REs. Something different to try, packed in wooden boxes of

ten, and priced as near to a normal production cigar. No extra bands bells, or whistles. More of

an experiment to gauge reaction.

[Jimmy2]

Make a regular production Robusto or Robusto Extra size cigar in the LGC line as this size is very popular in the world.

Make a regular production Corona Gorda size in Partagas,LGC ,Ramon Allones and Vegas Robaina i think they would sell like HOT CAKES..

[Colt45]

I wouldn't mind seeing the maduro wrapper used on a somewhat more "potent" cigar - Partagas

SdC, Bolivar pc, etc.

To expand on this slightly, I've also given thought to the idea of using the maduro leaf in place of the normal binder. Again using the

Partagas SdC - 2 or 3 let's say. Normal wrapper, maduro binder - possibly vice versa. Small boxes of five or ten - again, call it a trial

run.

Another thought I'd had - and this may be exactly what you don't want to see posted - would be small to medium trial runs of sizes

unique for a marque. Not to be confused with or considered ELs or REs, but blended and rolled as with the tobacco as used for regular

production. A Bolivar carlota comes to mind. Again, small boxes, priced as regular production, made easy to purchase, no extra bands

or hoopla.

If you can have a box of each of the above SdC3s rolled for me with little or no premium, I'll buy a box of each sight unseen.

Regular SLB 25s, banded or not.

[Mr Peales]

Is it that the discontinued cigars don't sell? Or don't sell in desired quantities at the B&M stores? Perhaps the production for certain cigars could be lowered and their distribution targeted only to interested markets or regions?

I also think that a regular production Partagas Corona Gorda or Hermosos #2 that has a strong and rich flavor profile would be a no brainer.

Are these decisions to cut cigars really based on sales? If that is the case, I find it hard to believe that the Partagas Corona did not sell as well as other lesser coronas still in production. Sorry Rob, as I know this rubs against the grain of your post a bit, but I just want to make sure we have all of the facts.

[El Presidente]

Sorry Rob, as I know this rubs against the grain of your post a bit, but I just want to make sure we have all of the facts.

I have seen the numbers so I have an idea of the problem.

1. Coronas were not selling.

2. Partagas finished well behind others.

The only surprise I had is that Punch Corona lasted longer than Partagas. I think the 50 cabs of Partagas dragged down the 25's.

How do we make Corona as a vitola more relevant? How do we get more people to purchase Corona as opposed to short Robusto? Is it important?

Members of this board and others are not average cigar punters. Keep that in mind. Average Joe Schmo who walks into Duty free or a Divan is looking for something visually appealing + Price conscious. Show him a 10 pack of Montecristo Petit Edmundo or a box (25) of Bolivar Corona.....what will he purchase?

Personally I would recommend a "Legends of CIgar display hanging from the wall of every Divan. The History of Partagas and the History of Lusitania and Corona spelt out for all to see. Celebrate them ,their history, their blending, their flavour.

[sounddust]

I'm just afraid any "Legends of HSA" poster will be filled mostly with Cohibas

[Rogers72]

I much prefer "wooden packaging" in boxes of 25. Be it SLB, BN, SBN or whatever. Anything but the dress box. I would be interested to see the cost of packaging, Dress Box vs. others.

[OZCUBAN]

Hi ALL

This is just a start on this particular thread ,I to prefer cabinets to ,but also take on board Robs comments about aficionados/verses the average Joe.

I would class my self as something in between (only due to lack of funds... no lotto win yet) .

which makes me think maybe a budget range?? for entry level cuban smokers..

I would also like to see smokes that are not at present in cabinets ie Monte#2 and various others .

Just finished a 13 hour shift a my brain is not a its full capacity at the moment

will post again when the Juices flow

Cheers oz cuban

[Jokermann]

On a different board, I hosted a poll on member's favorite sizes, with shocking results to me. The Corona Gorda was the clear winner with 23% of the vote, followed closely by the Cervantes (lonsdale) with 20% of the vote. While these are some of my favorite sizes, I did not expect them to blow out the others.

Robustos/petit Robusto/Herm #4/DC/Julieta #2/Minuto all combined only accounted for 11% of the vote, and no massive RG cigars were mentioned (ex. Sublime, Salamone).

If HSA thinks it help the bottom line to discontinue all the Coronas, Lonsdales and other thin RG cigars, I understand, its business. I have stocked enough Coronas and Lonsdales for a lifetime. In my opinion, the true cigar smokers, and collectors are trying to speak up and let HSA know our favorites are slowly disappearing, but it seems they are not listening.

Here are some thing that I would like to see happen:

- A "Regional Sampler" each year with all of the current years regional releases to try. Also, don't make so damn many. They start to loose their flare and prestige, when there are 2 different cigars for Suiza, PCC, France, UK and so on. Enough is enough. Up till 07 I had at least a box of all of them, I didn't even bother on the 08s…not worth my time. I know I won't chase them in 09 either. No matter what anyone says, 20,000 boxes of a "limited" regional release is not limited at all, and they will be available for years.

- Introduction of some of the cigars discontinued in 02. I am not saying they need to be put back in regular production, but if there was a 5000 box run on Punch Ninfas this year, they would sell out this year without a problem. Same goes for Party Lonsdales, Charlottes, Fonseca Invictos and other great cigars that have gone away. Nothing would make me happier, than if I called Czar, and asked what was smoking good, and they replied "We just got the 09 Punch Ninfas in, they are smoking great young." I would buy a couple boxes without question. No over hyped, release ceremony or party needs to take place, just make them and send them out.

There were over 70 votes on the poll I did, and 90% of the people who voted buy 10-50 boxes a year, and some even more than that. Shouldn't these people have a say in what they would like to smoke? While I know this is just a small sampling of the cigar forum community, I would bet that if 1000 dedicated cigar forum members were polled, they %'s would remain near the same...

.

[Jimmy2]

That's just it so called true cigars smokers like us ( really don't like that term as I think if you pay money for a cigar we are all the same as Habano's S.A. sees it for the most part) are small peanuts as most smoke cigars young don't want cabinets and want bigger sizes overall.

That's just the way it is today like it or not times have changed and some of us have not but the masses have.

We are small peanuts compared to the overall picture on what the world wants in the cigar world and a larger number does not agree with our views and the moves Habano S.A. are doing prove this because of there sales.

But overall I will miss some of the cigars that are now gone but I must say CC as of late have been very flavorful young and less construction problems as in years past and I will take that any day.

Corona Gorda is my favorite size and I think most others overall love it as its the perfect size overall.

[audilicious]

I understand HSA going for a target market of "drive by" or one time or casual cigar smokers who think a big fat donkey d!ck of a cigar is manly or a better value because it has more tobacco vs. say a corona for a similar price.

I've been around long enough to see new or occasional smokers and their tastes fluctuate. Almost all who don't seek info on what is a good intro, start with big ring smokes. They either keep smoking and refine their tastes and eventually realize that thinner RG smokes are usually the way to go. Or they just drop out of the "hobby" or just stay occasional smokers.

HSA like any business has to follow trends, or try to have outlook on what will be trends. I hope that these FAT cigars are targeted at a FAT U.S. market. Where bigger/more is better (walmart/costco). And that if O'bama gets the embargo lifted, HSA will have tons of FAT and light FAT(monty sport) available for the FAT american market. It makes me laugh to think of a skinny European with FAT cigar in his hand, vs. the typical long skinny cigar/cigarette.

A good way to get their occasional smokers to try corona's, is tube them up and make "it's a girl/boy" tubos. paint some naked ladies/guys on tubo's and make them the "bachelor/bachelorette" party packs, etc.

I really don't know what would get people to expand their horizon's, other than time. Hopefully by then we're not all smoking the new double and triple FAT petite edmundo's, lol

[aavkk]

On a different board, I hosted a poll on member's favorite sizes, with shocking results to me. The Corona Gorda was the clear winner with 23% of the vote, followed closely by the Cervantes (lonsdale) with 20% of the vote. While these are some of my favorite sizes, I did not expect them to blow out the others.

great post Jason and I agree with everything you mentioned! I personally feel that rather than eliminating certain cigars from production they should make an effort at different packaging. Most recently the Punch SS#1 has found its way to the chopping block. This to me is such a shame. Have you HSA, considered that it may not be the cigar itself that caused a lack of sales but perhaps the packaging? I personally prefer the 50 cab format but can understand that it is a big commitment. Instead of eliminating the cigar try releasing it in either a DB or preferrably an SLB of 25 count. I know that I will be buying more of this cigar before it is no longer available. Such a shame...

[Smooth]

I obviously have little idea what exactly causes a cigar to go out of production other than low sales compared to higher selling vitolas. However, what if each factory simply had ONE worker rolling some of the much loved and long gong smokes...

I would almost pay some of the wage of a roller who would roll Partagas Coronas alone.

Charge a slighlty inflated price, sell to the real habanos smokers. Im sure others would have a smoke they desperately miss and surely having one person per factory producing discontinued cigars would pay for themselves.

Just read the Immensas is gone, ridiculous! yet fits into the above idea.

[chrisguinther]

1. Expand the Ramon Allones line with the Belicoso blend and a corona gorda.

2. Each year bring back a pre-embargo marca with one vitola as a special release. Change the marca and release each year.

3. Regional samplers would be a great idea.

4. Consider blend changes that would increase the flavor profile of cigars that have seemed to lost their impact: Partagas Lusitania, Montecristo 2, H. Upmann Magnum 46.

[Mr Peales]

Legends of Cigar Display

Great idea, it could easily be expanded to their website, box inserts, etc.

If the casual or occasional purchaser makes up the bulk of total sales, imagine if HSA cultivated connoisseurship in these customers. If they where simply more responsive to the heritage of the Habanos maybe HSA would not be spinning their wheels with this advancing parade of hit-or-miss new blends. They could get some traction on those superior blends and vitolas that work.

HSA are following sales trends, but the purchasing trends are based on the cultural trends of the cigar smoker. HSA, cigar store owners and all of us can help shape the future of our culture and influence what cigar smokers smoke.

[Jimmy2]

These smaller sizes have been around for ages and are out dated and sales show it like it or some of us say make small production than to fit our needs I have said this in the past. I agree but we are so small of a number its not even funny I am going to miss the Punch SS#1 what a flavorful cigar.

I really think you can thank the RR and LE series that come out every year as I think they are the cause of many of the smaller ring gauges or cigars that have not been selling in big numbers to end.

Also some of you say you love some of these cigars that are being discontinued what year are all your boxes from? I know a lot here buy only aged boxes that's not good for present day sales of some of the brands that were discontinued. As Habano S.A. can see the demand that has been coming in for the last 3 or 4 years lets say and if only buying the older boxes they will see a drop than in sales.

I think we should all get back on track and post to Robs question only.

[sinnyc]

Here are some thing that I would like to see happen:

- A "Regional Sampler" each year with all of the current years regional releases to try. Also, don't make so damn many. They start to loose their flare and prestige, when there are 2 different cigars for Suiza, PCC, France, UK and so on. Enough is enough. Up till 07 I had at least a box of all of them, I didn't even bother on the 08s…not worth my time. I know I won't chase them in 09 either. No matter what anyone says, 20,000 boxes of a "limited" regional release is not limited at all, and they will be available for years.

- Introduction of some of the cigars discontinued in 02. I am not saying they need to be put back in regular production, but if there was a 5000 box run on Punch Ninfas this year, they would sell out this year without a problem. Same goes for Party Lonsdales, Charlottes, Fonseca Invictos and other great cigars that have gone away. Nothing would make me happier, than if I called Czar, and asked what was smoking good, and they replied "We just got the 09 Punch Ninfas in, they are smoking great young." I would buy a couple boxes without question. No over hyped, release ceremony or party needs to take place, just make them and send them out.

I'd suggest combining these two ideas. Instead of coming out with more and more RE's each year, make more LE's targeting "serious amateurs"/collectors/aficionados by selecting marques and vitolas that are beloved but discontinued cigars or are seeing a lessening of demand. This would help satisfy some of us "back when I was a kid" types and might also rekindle interest in some of the classic names and traditional sizes while also appealing to the "ooooohhh - shiny things!" contingent among us who have to get their hands on anything non-standard. I freely admit I have both of the above mentioned character flaws

It's a trifecta win from my perspective in that it allows Habanos to leverage what is clearly a high margin product type (Limited Releases) while helping to placate the "well-informed" (obsessive?) among their existing customer base, all while potentially slowing or reversing the slide of waning brands and sizes.

- Tim

[audilicious]

Other than the obvious marketing push combined with a slight temporary price drop on thin RG's to boost sales and get the average casual smoker to pick them instead of a short fatty? IDK

I hate pandering to the masses. But THAT IS business

[jeromeroselli]

2. Each year bring back a pre-embargo marca with one vitola as a special release. Change the marca and release each year.

Great idea Chris.

Also, I'd love to see more boxes of 10 available. Sometimes, you've only got the option of a single, or a 25 box.

I would buy boxes of 10, that I may not buy a 25 box of, or a single for that matter even.

Might just be me...

Jeremy

[mkz]

I'd love to see more boxes of 10 available. Sometimes, you've only got the option of a single, or a 25 box.

I would buy boxes of 10, that I may not buy a 25 box of, or a single for that matter even.

Might just be me...

I´ll second that!

[SethG]

First I'd like to say that I am in great appreciation of almost all of what HSA is doing now. Switching the LE's to the same factory, standardizing such terms as well as creating a once a year reserva line, new tax seal etc....

Here's what I would improve or change, all of these things well within HSA's abilities today:

1) Bring the GAVD designs forward to more products, all of the main houses should have a tin, a ceramic jar, a culebra, a coffin and a glass tubo on par with the new travel selection pack. All these things should be reasonably priced as they are basically the flashy lure that hooks pass-through customers.

2) Barcodes should be trackable on habanos web site, so people can casually check provenance.

Here's the biggies:

3) They need to alter their strategy to mimic the French first growth wines, The tobacco needs to be seen as a commodity and traded in advance as futures allocations. Bring in the independent experts to rate this years crop at each stage (planing, growth, picking, rolling) let this information be very public and establish the primary marque's as the only "first growth" cuban's. You're looking for a two year lead from first pick to arrival in consumers hands BUT you want them to be prepurchased as a commodity or at least reserved by the dealers. French first growth wines go for more than a 100 dollars per glass on occasion, NEW! Adopting this strategy could easily drive up prices for HSA but more importantly quality. Throw away tobacco would be publicly sorted out to Piedra type uses.

the basic effect of this is that Cuba gets a 2-3 year run before the embargo lifts, to logically raise the prices of the main tobacco brands but also to leave prices normal on their smaller houses. When the embargo lifts Cuba will at that point have 5-8 houses selling cigars at 50/stick and then is able to maintain that quality, in a visible way to outsiders while allowing the smaller houses to ramp out production on the currently fallow fields. We all fear 2001 etc... when cigars ramped out production with no quality. I will gladly pay 50/stick for Montecristo's and Partagas and cohiba post embargo IF it's that level of documented quality.

4) Finally, the blast from the past idea is great. Open up the MRN book and every year pick a vitola and go back in time and make it, packaging and all. Do 4 such packages a year, alternate the major houses, this will become guaranteed sellers.

[harryleech]

I have wanted to start a positive thread on suggestions for HSA from a buyers perspective.

You know well that this forum is read almost daily by HSA so I want this to be a positive experience of positive suggestions and thoughts from people who spend their hard earned moola on their product.

Give it some thought. Instead of posting, bring back *********** take into account they failed to sell previously in numbers required so perhaps suggest a different slant or packaging etc.

Put on a HSA hat. You are CEO. Write as if you as HSA CEO are going to read what is written and give it due consideration. If you believe they are doing somethings right...let them know.

Maybe...just maybe some pearls of idea's will be forthcoming.

Ok,

With the brief that you've suggested in mind, here's a few thoughts (putting my professional hat on):

* HSA has done a fantastic job on updating and reinvigorating the packaging of tubed cigars in recent years; The P2 tube was long overdue and I hope that this will be extended to the Monte No. 2, Bolivar Belicoso etc

* Packaging and branding has improved massively in recent years, as has the quality of branded promo accessories (H.Upmann travel humidor, Partagas Travel Humidor, Branded ashtrays etc.)

* Quality and consistency has seen a massive improvement since 2006 onwards: Draw problems are now (thankfully) few and far between.

Some areas of real potential:

At present a large proportion of Habanos smokers are 'occasional smokers' with a much smaller proportion being true brand 'adorers' (i.e. marketing speak for aficionados.) If HSA is going to make their occasional smokers more regular smokers, they are going to have to do some work. Some suggestions:

1. Start a 'Brand of the Month' promotion in LCDH and duty frees around the world. Promote the history and heritage of a particular brand every month, focusing on how it came about, who owned it, where the 'mother factory' is situated etc. The is so much history behind many of these brands that is waiting to be exploited it is unbelievable, and would go a long way in bridging the gap between brand samplers and brand adorers.

A perfect example is the work that Scotch and Irish whiskey brands do in order to emphasise their heritage to their market, as well as what Guinness is doing this year to develop it's 250th anniversary:

http://www2.guinness.com/en-IE/Pages/thestory.aspx

http://www.bankofireland.com/press_room/la...nt_1000233.html

http://www2.bushmills.com/Pages/Home.aspx?...r0u1q55nxknzgq5

http://www.islayinfo.com/islay_whisky_distilleries.html

The emphasis on all of these classic brands is quality (which as I said HSA has done a fantastic job of improving) but also on heritage. In these topsy turvy times (all bullshit aside) consumers are comforted by trusted brands that have heritage: Coke has done a fantastic job of diversifying and modernising, while still emphasising heritage (always Coca-Cola, classic branding etc.) I'm leaving aside the disastorous foray into 'New' Coke and the possible correlations with Montecristo Open etc!

Work on this 'heritage/legacy' branding need not interfere (and will actually support) current marketing initiatives and simple charts, flyers (as long as both are well written and branded), booklets etc would be a good start in LCDH's, Duty Free's and other major retilers. These retailers may or may not want to give small discounts, assemble sampler packs etc as part of the initiative, but that would be up to them.

2. It's been mentioned before (by El Prez I believe) but 'Legend of Habanos' Releases would be a fantastic way to keep aficionados happy, while building on the 'heritge' marketing. Rather than cancelling some historic/beloved vitolas why not limit production: Only make Rafael Gonzalez lonsdales every 5 years, make Petit Punch every 3 years etc (in much the same way that they currently do with H. Upmanns Sir Winstons.)

3. HSA has already started on this, but I think it should be emphasised: for price concious consumers, more smaller, highly branded packaging. One of my favourite cigars, the Partagas 898V comes in a fantastic varnished box: Why not do more 10 boxes in order to move volume?

4. Less RE's will enable HSA to keep this promotion going for longer: Of the RE's that they do release, have any been introduced to regular production (as has happened with the LE's)? Less of them, with the introduction of sampler packs of the RE's released each year would ensure that they don't get lost in the din of an alreay over-crowded marketplace.

5. Hire brand ambassadors (as many spirit/wine companies do) to promote cigars around the world: Hold regular tasting sessions to educate customers on flavour, vitola size, history etc. Wine companies in particular do a fantastic job of promoting their brand this way. There are individual intricacies involved with doing this with cigars (smoking bans etc) and some distributors already do a fantastic job on this front already (H&F in the UK for example) but this can be expanded in almost all regions.

The major message I would send HSA is 'focus on your heritage': There is a market of men (and ocasionally women) of my generation (25-35) who are crying out for brands with real heritage: It's why micro-breweries, whiskeys, fine wines etc are all the rage with aspirational types in this demographic and is a fast track to having more Habanos nuts rather than just occasional buyers.

H

[Mr Peales]

Great ideas Harryleech, you have outlined some really interesting plans here. I think your case-studies go a long way in making these ideas understandable. Do you suppose HSA is thinking about long-term marketing strategies? Do you foresee any long-term problems occurring with their present course of actions?

I would also like to thank you for such a well considered post. I'm sure that your insight will not fall on deaf ears.

[jayjayuk]

100 cabs of half corona,ie party shorts monte5 boli shorts .and cabs of 50 monty & upman no2,

regular production cabs of cohiba campana pyramids

a hsa travel accessory for reguar use,ie cigar case, cutter, lighter,skewer,somewhere for cash all in one,and in my fastasy world an mp4 or ipod,lol