Partagas Piramides EL 2000

[Colt45]

» The retailer advised that the box was not sourced from PCC... and it was

» privately sourced from overseas. I automatically began to panic... as the

» retailer opened his doors to the POSSIBILITY of compromised stock. This

» bothered me no end.

»

I would find this very disconcerting as well. I did read the Sublimes fiasco - not good, and we can

leave it at that.

[Claudius]

» I hope you didnt pay top dollar for them Cigarros...

They sell them for Swiss retail + 25 or 30%.

[cigarros]

» » I hope you didnt pay top dollar for them Cigarros...

»

» They sell them for Swiss retail + 25 or 30%.

Claudius whatta you thinkin' about famous merchant in Swiss Urs Portmann? Are you think he buys from Habanos +25 or 30%? I do not think so....

[Eremeur]

» » I hope you didnt pay top dollar for them Cigarros...

»

» They sell them for Swiss retail + 25 or 30%.

Hi guys!

Why don't anybody drop a word on cigar itself? I kindly ask EVERYBODY, who ever smoked Partagas Pirámides LE 2000 - Limited Edition himself to share his personal experience and impressions. As for me, I tasted it at abovementioned degustation and may assure you, that it is superquality 100% havana of fantastic, outstanding flavour. It gives an immense pleasure while you enjoy it. I've never tried Partagas of that quality yet, no matter what country or retailer from.

So, it is a funny friendly talk - a group of supersmokers, who have not smoked this cigar, try to persuade the only fellow who did it, that he has tried a fake one. Basing on some ink marker on the box. Because in Cuba ink markers are #1 and cigar is #2. Box markers are inevitably authentic;-) , and cuban cigars of limited editions is a thing easy-to-do, to imitate and to produce. The only problem is to mark the box with ink letters WITHOUT ERRORS!:-D

Or am I mistaken?

As far as I have understood, an international aid has come to Russia, covered with snow, where bears go around streets, drink vodka and play babalaikas. And smoke cigars, of course. The aid in the form of friendly profound theoretic knowledge how to distinguish authentic havanas from fake ones. I would be very pleased if someone there write smth like "oh, a nice cigar, I should try it also, I will search for original one around in my graceful homeland, and after that I'll write you Dmitri were you true or not". No **** like this. Only generous collection of advises what not to do and not to buy in Switzerland.

As for me, I suffer my personal fight against fake cuban cigars, which are allaround here in Russia. I am a soldier in this battle, and Dmitry is a general (on cigarros.ru he provides dozens of pages dedicated to authentic cuban factory codes). But nomatter either a cigar is fake or authentic, the question #1 for me is "is this cigar good and what kind of cigar it is". For this Partagas Pirámides LE 2000 the answer is - excellent and fantastic. Probably it is fake and then obviously it is much better than authentic one :-D

[Colt45]

» Why don't anybody drop a word on cigar itself? I kindly ask EVERYBODY, who

» ever smoked Partagas Pirámides LE 2000 - Limited Edition himself to share

» his personal experience and impressions.

Welcome to FOH. There are a number of reviews of this cigar here - you can use the search function

to find them.

» So, it is a funny friendly talk - a group of supersmokers, who have not

» smoked this cigar, try to persuade the only fellow who did it, that he has

» tried a fake one.

While there are numerous anomalies regarding Cuban cigar packaging, members with experience

on the topic (I'm not including myself here) have kindly tried to point out that there

may be a problem regarding authenticity of these cigars.

» For this Partagas Pirámides LE 2000 the answer is -

» excellent and fantastic. Probably it is fake and then obviously it is much

» better than authentic one :-D

They may very well be excellent cigars, but it is looking doubtful that they are, indeed, legitimate Habanos.

[cigarros]

My post has caused heightened interest! See statistical views! Well, I hope you don't consider us as provokers? We really wish to understand and find the truth:lookaround: I'll necessarily contact with my German friends and ask them this question and I'll give them link on FOH

[SmokinAl]

Hi Dmitri and a belated welcome to FOH, it's a pleasure to have you here! I’m sure that no one here feels you are a provocateur. All of us are passionate about fakes because so many of us have been caught out. I know I have.

Welcome again Mate.

[cigarros]

» Hi Dmitri and a belated welcome to FOH, it's a pleasure to have you here!

» I’m sure that no one here feels you are a provocateur. All of us are

» passionate about fakes because so many of us have been caught out. I know

» I have.

»

» Welcome again Mate.

Hi Alain! We same have been caught out. I realy hate counterfite cigar producers and battle to it anywhere....On the other hand to me I don't understand logic whom speaks about cigars not having used them. Only unknown box codes? Another stickers? But a good cigar is Smoke! Aren't U? Regards to all members

[Claudius]

» Claudius whatta you thinkin' about famous merchant in Swiss Urs Portmann?

He's a very nice guy, very knowledgeable, a good friend of Alejandro Robaina. He's a bit skinny although he eats a whole chocolate bar every night. He should stop smoking those Davidoff cigarillos IMO.

» Are you think he buys from Habanos +25 or 30%? I do not think so....

I dont understand your question; did you understand what I wrote? Urs Portmann, like most Habanos dealers in Switzerland, buys his cigars at wholesale prices, roughly 50% of the retail price. He gives 10% discount on boxes if you pay cash and 7% on boxes if you pay by credit card. To everybody, no need to ask, there's even a sign in the shop.

The Davidoff shop in Geneva sells the fake ELs for 25 - 30% more than RETAIL price. No idea how much they bought them for. Perhaps under regular wholesale price?

[Claudius]

» Oh! I see your ash same like mine

LOL! He was showing you what the "Edicion Limitada" band should look like. The letters should not be EMBOSSED. Do you understand what EMBOSSED means? Look at his picture and then at your band. Notice the difference? Your band has the "Edicion Limitada" EMBOSSED. This means it's FAKE!

[strayvector]

» So yea! We are from Russia and we have won at football Holland team

» tonight! Sorry! I forget that this forum FOH))) I'm very happy!!

What a great game! Congratulations to Russia.

[cigarros]

» » Oh! I see your ash same like mine

»

» LOL! He was showing you what the "Edicion Limitada" band should look

» like. The letters should not be EMBOSSED. Do you understand what

» EMBOSSED means? Look at his picture and then at your band. Notice the

» difference? Your band has the "Edicion Limitada" EMBOSSED. This means

» it's FAKE!

Hi Claudius! Sorry but yesterday I was drunk! Russia won great Holland football team! Of course English not my native language, but I'm understand...

So are U thinkin' that anyway we're have smoked fake? Have you smoked this cigars? Or you assume that only anillos can tell about an origin? But aroma, taste & body - anything? I assure you, that we had to smoke different releases from different sellers but this was fantastic!

I smoke already more than 10 years and I know about what I speak! Even if to assume, that it fake, but super "fake"! Whether you know the person by name Willy Alvero Teitz? He spaniard and worked like a Head of Habanos S.A. Russia. After the resignation he told a lot of interesting about the politician Habanos S.A. in different countries.

Whether you know, what these streams have the names at Cubans? Habanos A & Habanos B. First - legal, second - "gray". What for they do it? Thus they supervise profit the representatives all around the world. They are interested in that there was a duplicating trade channel in each country.

Officially Cuba lets out about 110 million cigars a year. As much is issued under grey schemes. Do cigars at the same factories, only from Cuba they leave for other sellers. Raw material and fermentation almost the same. Another documentation for ship. And for understandin' what part where has left they use the codes and so on...

I am not assured that grey schemes fake! What will tell? Regards for all!

[sandholm]

Hi

just a thought, I live in lausanne and we dont have a Davidoff shop here, there is one in Geneva... but not in Lausanne, so I would guess that your friend bought these in Geneva

On the other hand there are three "big" cigar shops in Lausanne, one is very close to the Palace hotel, and from that cigar shop you dont want to buy anything. Knowledge is limited and there humidor is a joke... but I would guess that 95% of there customers is people who stay in the hotel...

cheers

» Hi! I'm new here! I'm from Moldova (near Black Sea and Romania) but lives

» in Russia. This cigars has been bought in Depositary "Davidoff" (SWISS)

» Lausanne. Many times bought there and don't suspecting. In any case I

» shall contact my german's friends and ask them about. We're both has been

» bought MAY00:confused:

[cigarros]

Yes certainly. I have communicated with the friends and they have confirmed, that it was Geneva, and in Lausanne they simply were travel. Excuse for discrepancy

[tigger]

» Why don't anybody drop a word on cigar itself? I kindly ask EVERYBODY, who

» ever smoked Partagas Pirámides LE 2000 - Limited Edition himself to share

» his personal experience and impressions.

I smoked a box of these between 2001 and 2005. They were quite good, though not my favorite Partagas by a long shot.

» So, it is a funny friendly talk - a group of supersmokers, who have not

» smoked this cigar, try to persuade the only fellow who did it, that he has

» tried a fake one.

There's no need to persuade anyone of anything here. Whether any given party chooses to believe it or not, the cigars in the original post may have been very good tasting, but they cannot be authentic 2000 Partagas Edicion Limitadas.

[cigarros]

Hi Tim!

Whether you know, what these streams have the names at Cubans? Habanos A & Habanos B. First - legal, second - "gray". What for they do it? Thus they supervise profit the representatives all around the world. They are interested in that there was a duplicating trade channel in each country.

Officially Cuba lets out about 110 million cigars a year. As much is issued under grey schemes. Do cigars at the same factories, only from Cuba they leave for other sellers. Raw material and fermentation almost the same. Another documentation for ship. And for understandin' what part where has left they use the codes and so on... my early quote

I perfectly understand you, but the stream Habanos "B" does not mean fake - all of them have been made at the same factories of the same raw material (Source: The informal information from one official of Habanos S.A. Russia). I understand, that it is complex to accept this approach and do not forget that people supervise over it from Altadis.

And still it is a little sentency. On Cuba always concerned to Russian differently than to Europeans and Americans and our information not official but it is very similar to the truth, therefore we here, to tell you about. We against these policy also would like to struggle with it, but how? Only informing each other it is possible to be sure, that you do not deceive. Regards all!

[Claudius]

» » » Oh! I see your ash same like mine

» »

» » LOL! He was showing you what the "Edicion Limitada" band should look

» » like. The letters should not be EMBOSSED. Do you understand what

» » EMBOSSED means? Look at his picture and then at your band. Notice the

» » difference? Your band has the "Edicion Limitada" EMBOSSED. This means

» » it's FAKE!

»

» Hi Claudius! Sorry but yesterday I was drunk! Russia won great Holland

» football team! Of course English not my native language, but I'm

» understand...

Hey, no problem :-D Congratulations! :-D

» So are U thinkin' that anyway we're have smoked fake?

I know so, yes. The cigars you have are not exported by Habanos SA, that's for sure. Habanos SA use non embossed EL bands, no POS code in 2000, etc.

I never said your cigars arent good! Maybe they are very good! You smoked them and posted a tasting and I'm sure you tasted what you said you tasted. I'm not saying you didnt taste what you said! I'm only saying that the cigars arent authentic. That doesnt mean that they're bad. It only means someone, somewhere, is being criminal.

[Colt45]

» Whether you know, what these streams have the names at Cubans? Habanos A

» & Habanos B. First - legal, second - "gray". What for they do it? Thus they

» supervise profit the representatives all around the world. They are

» interested in that there was a duplicating trade channel in each country.

»

» Officially Cuba lets out about 110 million cigars a year. As much is

» issued under grey schemes. Do cigars at the same factories, only from Cuba

» they leave for other sellers. Raw material and fermentation almost the

» same. Another documentation for ship. And for understandin' what part

» where has left they use the codes and so on... my early quote

I may not understand you correctly, but are you suggesting that H.S.A authorizes the production of

cigars for the gray market? I'd find this very hard to believe.

And while it's true that gray market cigars may be "legit", once someone goes outside of authorized

channels, all bets are off.

Also, if real Habanos are removed from the factory (stolen) and sold via gray market channels, can they

be considered genuine Habanos?

[cigarros]

» I may not understand you correctly, but are you suggesting that H.S.A

» authorizes the production of

» cigars for the gray market? I'd find this very hard to believe.

Certainly is not. I condemn this practice. But on the other hand, as they could get in "Davidoff"??? Or they know nothing about it? Hardly trust in it.

» Also, if real Habanos are removed from the factory (stolen) and sold via

» gray market channels, can they

» be considered genuine Habanos?

You have not correctly understood me. Cubans do them for H.a.s. and take out from factory legally, do not steal. And here these cigars leave the country to other sellers, that where H.a.s. has not 50 %, and 60-70% and more.

These are not stolen cigars, and delivered almost officially. You trace codes of a stream "A" - legal, but Habanos does it specially. And Heads Imperial Tobacco & Altadis know about it. It is not advertised policy of corporation. Here it also is not pleasant to me. Conversation goes not about the cigars stolen from factory, and about policies Habanos S.A. Such quantities cannot be carried away from factory, it is a question of millions cigars a year:-D

I do not want that you thought, that I support a stream "B"

[Colt45]

» I do not want that you thought, that I support a stream "B"

Of course not, Dmitri - I fully understand that you are against this type of distribution.

And we may have a slight language barrier, but we all work together here - it's the FOH way.

We've had a few discussions on gray market cigars in the past - here is a link to just one:

[link=http://www.friendsofhabanos.com/board_entry.php?id=14613&page=0&order=time&category=all.tld/]Click Here[/link]

[cigarros]

» » I do not want that you thought, that I support a stream "B"

»

» Of course not, Dmitri - I fully understand that you are against this type

» of distribution.

» And we may have a slight language barrier, but we all work together here -

» it's the FOH way.

» We've had a few discussions on gray market cigars in the past - here is a

» link to just one:

»

» [link=http://www.friendsofhabanos.com/board_entry.php?id=14613&page=0&order=time&category=all.tld/]Click

» Here[/link]

I have closely read through about what have told Mr Prezident....

Agree completely, but probably we're have got good cigars not looking that a box code with attributes of falsification. We've caught luck with this cigars. To me is not clearly - How they have appeared in well-known shop? Here there are citizens of Switzerland. Let's ask through them! I cannot believe, that it is possible in Switzerland:confused:

[mkz]

» So yea! We are from Russia and we have won at football Holland team

» tonight! Sorry! I forget that this forum FOH))) I'm very happy!!

And Sweden got runned down in the mud a few days before... looking good for mother Russia!! :cool:

[El Presidente]

Cigarros

There are many unsavoury things that have gone on in the world of Habanos. There have always been "rumours."

There is a massive trade in high quality fakes. I have no doubt that high level "industry" people (former and possibly current) are involved. It is a well organized (production/finance/distribution) operation.

I have heard all the rumours, seen the product. Look at the quality of some of the LE fakes that have been found over the past few years. Quality Cuban tobacco and almost flawless packaging.

The people behind the fake operations do not take lightly to being caught out. Yet if you take the date codes for these cigars and provide them to Habanos s.a. there are no records of production under those codes.

The defence of the suppliers of these fake cigars is to go on the attack.

1. Cuba is notoriously poor in terms of packaging consistency.

2. There is a secondary production consisting of a whole "other" market.

3. The quality "Tier" where different markets recieve differing quality cigars.

Their defence revolves around confusion of the consumer and in some cases the retailer. I have met enough retailers who really have no idea of Cuban tobacco or the industry. They may be good businessmen but not necessarilly passionate about the product.

The reason I stay out of discussions on fakes is that I hate to disappoint. Good people spending good money are caught in the web. They want to believe and I don't want to break their heart, which often leads to agression (I am not saying that is the case in this post). Yet, if asked a straight question I will give a straight answer. Many of you over the years have sent me cigars you were unsure about. I assess them and smoke them and give you my opinion on authenticity. Trust me...nothing gives me more pleasure than to say "Authentic" and thankfully as often as not I do.

I have been sent and smoked two of these Partagas Piramides of the same box code. Good cigars with quality Cuban tobacco however not the authentic original Habanos sa release. That is simply my opinion. Could I be wrong....yes. I doubt it.

The takeover of Altadis by "Imperial" gives me hope that we may see greater action against the high quality "fake" market. Imperial has a very flat management structure and hopefully an attitude of agressive pursuit of a market which is a poison to all true lovers of Habanos. The new executives of Imperial do not have the longstanding ties with TABACUBA. It will take time.

[Guest rob]

Great post as usual Pres.

[cigarros]

This box has been bought by our friends in Swiss Geneve. Cigars rare. It is necessary to tell, that in Switzerland remains at the moment of purchase no more than 10 boxes. Edited: Price is not mentioned here at FOH

Excellent "body" and good draft from the first inhalings adjusted on positive. Aroma various and sated. In aromas shades caramel and nougat, a milk chocolate. Taste - sweet, spicy on 1/3.Aromas a thin leather, a turbary, honey, a hen house, cocoa, coffee-cappuccino, wet wool, fur. Change aromas proceeded constantly - one shades appeared, others disappeared and again appeared and died away.

Not looking at dominating cold aromas in animal and earty tones is not a strong cigar. It is extraordinary fragrant and harmonious.

The endurance in quantity 8 years has given to a cigar extraordinary depth and balance. The rare and qualitatively picked up mix tobaccos in a stuffing do honour to manufacturers. Even is moderate-friable ashes cannot spoil impression of smoking.The riches and luxury in aromas and taste open new pages for the tempted smoker. It is self-sufficient and unique. Almost does not demand support.