Habanos Subtle Flavors

[semery74]

Habanos are renowned for their subtle flavors such as cocoa, coffee, tea, roses, orange flowers, honeysuckle, sandalwood, and so on...

In your opinion how do you think cubans achieve this subtle nuance? Which stage of fabrication does the marriage of flavors occur? And why aren't Dominican, Nicaruaguan, and Honduran manufactures following suit?

[wp2]

IMVHO: soil, climate, farmers' knowledge, blending.

[Taino]

Agree with WP2 and would add good tobacco genetics

[Colt45]

While I generally agree with the above posts, I don't necessarily feel that the flavors described are

exclusive to Havanas.

I do feel that very generally, aside from what they do bring to the table, NCs do not really match up

when it comes to depth of flavor.

In trying to articulate my thoughts on this, I usually use the musical analogy of a single note compared

to a full chord. Both can be tasty, but the chord has more to it.

[SmokinAl]

» analogy of a single note compared

» to a full chord. Both can be tasty, but the chord has more to it.

I think that's very well said.

I've never been able to really understand why the NC can't catch up either. Similar climates and the same seed should have narrowed the gap and it's not like the NC's are ignorant on the topcs of blend or growing but the gap still remains.

[brooklyn]

Well stated analogy.:-)

[semery74]

I agree that the cubans definitely have mastered the art of growing tobacco. That remarkable cuban twang in most of their cigars is evidence. But I find it hard to believe that the complexity of flavors in their blends are an attribute of the soil and conditions in Cuba. Has anyone had a Padron 1926? There is a Nicaraguan cigar manufacturer that has definitely hit the mark of the Cubans. But I may add that it is the only one I've ever had that has left a mark. So the question is still unanswered. How do they add these subtle flavors? Are they fertilizing with cocoa shells, orange peels, and coffee beans? I find it hard to believe that the end product would have those flavors because of what the roots take up. I yield.

[Colt45]

» But I find it hard to believe that the complexity of flavors in their

» blends are an attribute of the soil and conditions in Cuba.

As the guys have mentioned, I would not discount climate, soil, and how the tobacco is processed.

Look at wine for instance. You can have two vineyards literally across the road from each other that

grow the same grapes and use similar techniques, but produce different wines due to soil and micro climate.

The proof is in the tasting.

As an aside, I give credit to many NC producers - their quality and care can be equal to and often surpasses

that of their Cuban counterparts.

One thing that does bother me slightly is when NC producers use terms like cubanesque, cuban-like, etc.

I'd much rather they say that they are producing the best their respective countries have to offer.

[CIGARHead]

Ross, very well put. I'm a big believer in that the unique soil and climate in Cuba are huge factors in the superiority of Cuban cigars.

I also hate the marketing of NCs as Cubanesque or even using "Cuban" in the verbage on the packaging. I also find it funny to see a NC Montecristo or Cohiba.

[Colt45]

» I'm a big believer in that the unique soil and climate

» in Cuba are huge factors in the superiority of Cuban cigars.

Yes, it would be hard to dismiss. Another thing I try to remember (but often forget) is the relatively small

areas that tobacco is grown - and that smaller still are the areas used for top grade cigars.

Here's a link for anyone who might want to take a peek:

http://www.habanos.com/article.aspx?aid=27

[marco polo]

Thanks for the link Colt ! :-)

[SmokinAl]

» Yes, it would be hard to dismiss. Another thing I try to remember (but

» often forget) is the relatively small

» areas that tobacco is grown - and that smaller still are the areas used

» for top grade cigars.

Very good point Colt, I hadn't thought of it in those terms. I will now shut up and go back to skulking in the background.

[Stalebread]

» As an aside, I give credit to many NC producers - their quality and care

» can be equal to and often surpasses

» that of their Cuban counterparts.

» One thing that does bother me slightly is when NC producers use terms like

» cubanesque, cuban-like, etc.

» I'd much rather they say that they are producing the best their respective

» countries have to offer.

Absolutely !

And some of the Tatuaje brand; the Illusione; the Serie V from Oliva; and Padron's 1926 and 1964 series, all demonstrate that growers and producers from tobacco growing regions other than Cuba can make outstanding cigars. Cigars that gain nothing by being compared to Cuban cigars.

[jdbrown]

This is exactly what I have believed to be true! Such a small area on such a small tract on a small Island...Gotta be the conditions! I personally dont care for most n/c cigars. I want to find something I could enjoy but always end up pitching them..Even the Padron's

[El Presidente]

Some great points have been raised.

Lets take New World wines...take Shiraz/Syrah.

Australian Shiraz has a different "taste" to South African, Chillean or US Shiraz. Age of vines has a big part to play but even within Australia, different Shiraz grape regions produce regionally distinctive Shiraz wines. Soil and climate conditions vary which would account to for the big difference as does different wine makers (and techniques). Yet in these days when wine makers cross the divide from one region to another, the wines they poduce still are heavily influenced (dominated) by the soil and climate of their region.

I have smoked some unforgettable Cuban cigars (and plenty of forgettable ones). Lets talk about exceptional Cuban cigar experiences. The cigar has a complexity which few outside of cuba have replicated. At the cigars core is a a flavour (twang/body) which we can only describe as "Cubanesque." Others can't do it and neither can Cubans produce a Nicaraguan "Twang".

Cuban cigars also have the ability to produce complex full flavoured cigars and lighter bodied complex cigars. In the main non Cuban cigars struggle with this. Full strength cigars from DR/NIC/HOND are rather one dimensional. Why? I think we can rule out the art of blending as many of these cigar manufacturers have ex Cuban blendes working with them. Quality of Tobacco? I have found that the quality of tobacco of Padron and Fuente to be exceptionally high.

A major advantage Cuban cigars have is the choice of tobaco available from various districts within the Vuelta Abajo region. If I remember correctly there are 16 or 18 growing districts within the Vuelta Abajo region. Each one is supplied by a myriad of Fincas. Some of these districts have good sources of irrigation (some have underground water) others battle with water resources. Soil types also differ within the region. What a rich tapestry of tobacco to choose from! If one was to generalise then the micro climate of the Vuelta Abajo is also something special. Some of you have been to Pinar del Rio/Vinales. You could drop a sesame seed from your breadroll and it would have a chance of growing.

So add up the influences....unique and varied soil types + perfect climate+ wide variety of tobacco influenced by the prior+ effecive baling and district labelling of the fermented tobacco + blenders who KNOW what each district brings to the table.

How could you replicate this no matter how hard you tried.

I have had many Padron 1926 which are very fine cigars. They are exceptional Padron cigars. Yet they have a definitive Padron style as they should.

I think many non Cuban cigar makers cheat themselves by continually referring to the cubanesque nature of their cigars.

The reality is no body has ever reproduced the Cuban "flavour" of a cigar and none ever will.

Just my 2 cents.

[SONNY1]

I just opened a box of H. Upmann #2 from Nov '07. This had to be one of the worst cigars that I have ever smoked.

I guess the whole Cuban Mojo Mystique must have been left outta this box because it was tasteless as hell.

I really dont have time to sit around and wait for the "journey" when I smoke a cigar. I'd really appreciate it if the damn thing was at least halfway smokable when I open the friggin box. I'd like to be able to enjoy what I have left here on Earth and not get f*%ked by some little Island Country where they still drive Desotos.

Forgive me if i'm pissy, but fellas.........I got friggin brain cancer and my tomorrows aint exactly guaranteed.

Is it too much to ask that a box of world reknowned cuban cigars not taste like ****?

Somehow, this theory of letting the cigars sit for a hundred friggin years is getting old and tired. Thats all I read........"With time, they should mature"......."I'll set them down for 5 years and we'll see what happens"........blah blah blah.

I aint got 5 years.

Ya got a cigar that tastes great now?

Like a Padron?

Or a Litto Gomez?

Or a Don Pepin Garcia blend like El Centurion?

Before my journey winds me 6 feet under, I'd like to enjoy what all the world has bragged about. So far, I got nuthin....

[BlackFriar]

»

» I aint got 5 years.

»

» Ya got a cigar that tastes great now?

»

» Like a Padron?

»

» Or a Litto Gomez?

»

» Or a Don Pepin Garcia blend like El Centurion?

»

» Before my journey winds me 6 feet under, I'd like to enjoy what all the

» world has bragged about. So far, I got nuthin....

What can you say to that? Sometimes you gotta let crap sit around long enough to turn into a mushroom. Most of the threads here will tell you the bigger format Cohibas for instance have got to sit.

That's not always the case, but like wine, unless you are an expert I wouldn't buy a burgundy off the shelf. So email Rob and Lisa and ask them to recommend a group of singles that smoke well young and out of the box. I'm sure some you will hate, but maybe you'll find that one which will give you that cuban taste you personally are looking for.

In the end, you know what you like. Reviews and recommendations are useful but you are your own best judge. Hell man, at five a day you are bound to find one you like! :-D

[SONNY1]

» »

» » I aint got 5 years.

» »

» » Ya got a cigar that tastes great now?

» »

» » Like a Padron?

» »

» » Or a Litto Gomez?

» »

» » Or a Don Pepin Garcia blend like El Centurion?

» »

» » Before my journey winds me 6 feet under, I'd like to enjoy what all the

» » world has bragged about. So far, I got nuthin....

»

» What can you say to that? Sometimes you gotta let crap sit around long

» enough to turn into a mushroom. Most of the threads here will tell you

» the bigger format Cohibas for instance have got to sit.

»

» That's not always the case, but like wine, unless you are an expert I

» wouldn't buy a burgundy off the shelf. So email Rob and Lisa and ask them

» to recommend a group of singles that smoke well young and out of the box.

» I'm sure some you will hate, but maybe you'll find that one which will

» give you that cuban taste you personally are looking for.

»

» In the end, you know what you like. Reviews and recommendations are useful

» but you are your own best judge. Hell man, at five a day you are bound to

» find one you like! :-D

Yeah Friar, I'll ask them. It cant hurt.

Thanks

[El Presidente]

Sonny I am sorry to hear what you are going through. Best wishes from everyone here on fighting the good fight.

Just a couple of points.

Upmanns are notorious to needing time....more than most and it has always been thus. I have had a great Upmann right out of the box in the 07 Sir Winstons but this is an exception to the rule. Others are far more receptive to a young tasting...RASS/D4/CR/ R&J Short Churchill...even M2.

If you have had your Upmanns for less than 30 days, rest them at least for that time and drop your humidity to between 63%-65%. Assuming you have already done that then trade the buggers and shoot me a personal e-mail and I will choose you a selection of cigars that I am enjoying now.

[SONNY1]

» Sonny I am sorry to hear what you are going through. Best wishes from

» everyone here on fighting the good fight.

»

» Just a couple of points.

»

» Upmanns are notorious to needing time....more than most and it has always

» been thus. I have had a great Upmann right out of the box in the 07 Sir

» Winstons but this is an exception to the rule. Others are far more

» receptive to a young tasting...RASS/D4/CR/ R&J Short Churchill...even M2.

»

»

» If you have had your Upmanns for less than 30 days, rest them at least for

» that time and drop your humidity to between 63%-65%. Assuming you have

» already done that then trade the buggers and shoot me a personal e-mail

» and I will choose you a selection of cigars that I am enjoying now.

Now you're talking........

I'm writing in "Rob Ayala" when I vote for President in november.