No code or date???

[Mel39]

Bought a box of Boli PCs online from a supplier shipping from Costa Rica. Yes, I know but they were cheap. They claim to source direct through their offices in Cuba.

Although the Habanos, "hecho" and "al mano" were etched in the bottom, there was no factory code or date. What do you think this means and should I be concerned??

They looked, felt and smelled OK to this noob. Haven't smoked one yet as they were delivered to work and I'm still there..

mel39

[tigger]

Mel-

I hope I'm wrong, but I think it's likely that your PCs are counterfeit.

I don't know the Costa Rican market at all, but I know that there have been some brazen purveyors of fakes in Central America in the past. That to me is a greater concern than the missing stamp (which is a significant concern, but if you had purchased from a merchant with an ironclad reputation, it might be chalked up to a Cuban QC glitch).

Here's a link to a list of HSA distributors for the Americas :

[link=http://habanos.com/distributors.aspx?type=&rid=1]Link[/link]

The second one down (CORPORACION CALLINI S.A.) appears to be the official channel for Havanas in Costa Rica. The link lists contact information for their offices - you might check with them to see if your merchant is legitimate.

It's possible that even if the merchant you purchased from isn't buying stock through official channels, that his cigars are still real, but chances are much better going through official lines.

Wilkey has done some terrific writeups about counterfeit Havanas, which may be found here:

[link=http://vitolas.net/thumbnails.php?album=43]Link2[/link]

Again, I don't know Costa Rican merchants at all. Someone here might have some insight into the validity of your seller.

My fingers are crossed that your purchase is ok.

[CIGARHead]

Hey Mel39,

Costa Rica is a big red flag to me...T reiterate what tigger said above, I have gotten a few boxes from an ironclad vendor w/o codes;-) . So, this still doesnt much help you because of the origin from where you got them, but don't let the fact that there's no stamp on back be the decisive factor in saying they're fakes.

Maybe snap a few pics and post em up here.

Hope they are the real deal though. Keep us posted

[Loki]

Mel I've had friends burned with purchases made in the Costa Rican

market as stated above most stay away. I also hope that yours are

legit.

[avid toker]

While Costa Rica may throw up a red flag for some, not having a box code stamp is not the end of the world nor does it necessarily signify fakes.

In all of my cigar purchases, I've had 1 incident on a box of H. Upmann Connie #1's from Europe with no box code. Everything else looked legit. Lit one up and they were as real as could be. Remember, much of the cigar manufacturing process in Cuba is human labor and mistakes are bound to happen.

Smoke one and see what you think...if you're content, that's all that matters. If not, return them to the vendor for a refund.

[GP012]

Mel, when I spoke with the owner of the San Jose LCDH in Costa Rica, he told me that there are no merchants in the country who ship legit product outside of CR.

[tigger]

Mel, when you get a chance, please send me an email at [email protected] I'll reply from my regular email account. Thanks.

[Claudius]

» Bought a box of Boli PCs online from a supplier shipping from Costa Rica.

» Yes, I know but they were cheap. They claim to source direct through their

» offices in Cuba.

» Although the Habanos, "hecho" and "al mano" were etched in the bottom,

» there was no factory code or date. What do you think this means and

» should I be concerned??

Hi Mel

It means that the cigars are counterfeit. Solo, getcigar, costa rica, Miami = counterfeit.

[El Presidente]

» They claim to source direct through their

» offices in Cuba.

BZZZZZZZZZZZZZ Wrong answer

[tacmedic]

Mel, don't take this wrong, but I think you should reread your statement in your profile...

[Mel39]

» Mel, don't take this wrong, but I think you should reread your statement in

» your profile...

Quite right Medic.

Some old fools never learn.

[jdbrown]

When it's all said and done you just cant go wrong buying all stock from the Czar. Great people, Great Service and Great Cigars Period! Plus they do something a little different than other's ..THEY CARE!

[Claudius]

Did you get them from solo? That's where most people get fakes from in Costa Rica. Here's an article on a Swiss blog that mentions a Habanos / Intertabak statement regarding solocigars: http://zigarren.blog.ch/0710/solocigars-au...rica-die-fakten

It's in German; here's the translation:

As previously reported, a company from Costa Rica called solocigars has been acquiring customers in Switzerland and Germany for several years with their supposedly authentic Havana cigars (also called Habanos). The authenticity of their "Habanos" has been questioned for an equally long time. Rightfully so, as we've just found out.

This week, important visitors from Cuba are staying at Intertabak AG, the official Habanos Importer for Switzerland. The visitors in question are Habanos SA's Vice-Presidents Manuel Garcia and Javier Terres. At the general meeting today, the "authentic Habanos from Costa Rica" were discussed. Also present was Heinrich Villiger, president of the board of directors of Intertabak AG and 5th Avenue (official Habanos Importer for Germany) and Urs Tanner, CEO of Intertabak AG in Münchenstein.

According to unequivocally clear statements from Intertabak and Habanos SA, Habanos SA has never supplied Habanos cigars to Solocigars, nor do Solocigars hold, in contradiction to their claims, a Habanos licence. Given that Habanos SA are the only havana cigar exporter world-wide, the only possible conclusion is that solocigars' Habanos are counterfeit. In Germany and Switzerland, test buys were made and verifications conducted by 5th avenue and Intertabak led to the same result: these are clearly counterfeit.

[yossie]

Hey claudius.

Thank you for informing such a great shop to me!:-D

[Claudius]

» Hey claudius.

» Thank you for informing such a great shop to me!:-D

:-D

:-P

Forewarned is forearmed!

[avid toker]

Well at least the box I got had the necessary stickers, warranty seal, etc. The only thing missing was the actual box code stamp. It's odd that your box would be void of the stickers and the box code stamp.

Your box looks a little suspect IMO but I hope they turn out OK for you.

[Ginseng]

» » Did you get them from solo? That's where most people get fakes from in

» » Costa Rica.

» No Claudi,

» mustn't mention sources but maybe Rob'll let me off in this instance to

» protect others or he can delete with pleasure. I will abbreviate their

» company name.

»

»

» About us

»

»

» RH.com offer authentic Cuban Cigars like Cohiba...

»

» RH S.A is a registered owner of Cuban license for legal distribution of

» original Cuban Cigars. We are direct distributor of Cimex S.A. ...

Mel,

I know the vendor you're referring to and I am well acquainted with them. I'm afraid that you almost certainly have counterfeits.

I'm sorry.

Wilkey

[Ginseng]

» While Costa Rica may throw up a red flag for some, not having a box code

» stamp is not the end of the world nor does it necessarily signify fakes.

To your first point, sourcing from Costa Rica immediately raises concern because of the low likelihood of obtaining cigars from that country through internet mail sales. There is a roll call of online CR vendors who are known purveyors of counterfeits including the one that was explicitly disavowed by HSA.

To your second point, the logic is reversed. The appearance of an anomaly cannot be used to argue for increasing the likelihood that the suspect item is authentic or for discounting the possibility that the item may be counterfeit.

On the one hand, you have an imperfect process that, on occasion, produces a rare, critical anomaly (missing factory code). In this case, you are proceeding from a premise that the goods must be authentic and so the anomaly is just that, a legitimate error and nothing more.

On the other hand, one can make no such presumption and so even minor errors must be viewed as suspicious and potentially problematic. This is the case with Costa Rica.

I have learned that things can happen dangerously fast and loose in South America with regard to Cuban cigars. I have a contact in Panama who has relayed numerous counterfeit cigars and boxes from "LCDH" located down there. The stories and accounts he's shared have made my head spin.

I think Mel got caught out by a site that looked legit and that sported all the appropriate language. Chances were, though, that someone here would have some information regarding practically any online source for Habanos on the internet. There is experience here and members should avail themselves of that. The risk of not doing so is exemplified by what happened to Mel and easily two dozen other people I know.

Forewarned is forearmed.

Wilkey

[El Presidente]

"Bait and switch" is a common technique used. Send one box of great authentic cigars first up. Earn trust and slowly introduce one fake box in two box orders. Then later two in three.

They average down their cost and average up their return.

A fake box of BPC costs $35 USD. A real box to the wholesaler say $85 USD.

I have spent enough time with these clowns at 4am in the morning in Havana when discretion is not a priority. They are more carefull with US clients knowing full well that their performance is under the microscope. For other global first time singe box clents they are looser because they know the support infrastructure for the client is not there.

The reality is that new single box clients are less likely to know what is real and what is not. You would need to be an seasoned cigar smoker to pick the difference. Many boards are made up of members who are less than two years into the procurement game. They will pass on best price and quick service as a favour to new members. There is nothing malicious about the intent.

You would think that these vendors would quickly be found out and shunned. Yet, year in and year out they thrive working their market niche.

No legitimate vendor recieves any part of their supply from "sources" in Havana. The system does not work that way.

I am also not blind to the fact that a few legitimate dealers peddle a % of fake stock when the opportunity allows. This is particularly true in the caribbean when cruise ships come to town or tourist mecca's. It is simply greed. Nothing lights up their eyes more than a 22 year old son, or a wife or a husband taking back some "Cubans" for their uncle or brother. The lure of 200% margin is a mighty lure indeed.

[smokum]

» When it's all said and done you just cant go wrong buying all stock from

» the Czar. Great people, Great Service and Great Cigars Period! Plus they

» do something a little different than other's ..THEY CARE!

Mel...come on now...its just not worth getting screwed to save a few bucks...plus no one else has Lisa.

[avid toker]

» » While Costa Rica may throw up a red flag for some, not having a box code

» » stamp is not the end of the world nor does it necessarily signify

» fakes.

»

» To your first point, sourcing from Costa Rica immediately raises concern

» because of the low likelihood of obtaining cigars from that country

» through internet mail sales. There is a roll call of online CR vendors who

» are known purveyors of counterfeits including the one that was explicitly

» disavowed by HSA.

»

» To your second point, the logic is reversed. The appearance of an anomaly

» cannot be used to argue for increasing the likelihood that the suspect

» item is authentic or for discounting the possibility that the item may be

» counterfeit.

»

» On the one hand, you have an imperfect process that, on occasion, produces

» a rare, critical anomaly (missing factory code). In this case, you are

» proceeding from a premise that the goods must be authentic and so the

» anomaly is just that, a legitimate error and nothing more.

»

» On the other hand, one can make no such presumption and so even minor

» errors must be viewed as suspicious and potentially problematic. This is

» the case with Costa Rica.

»

» I have learned that things can happen dangerously fast and loose in South

» America with regard to Cuban cigars. I have a contact in Panama who has

» relayed numerous counterfeit cigars and boxes from "LCDH" located down

» there. The stories and accounts he's shared have made my head spin.

»

» I think Mel got caught out by a site that looked legit and that sported

» all the appropriate language. Chances were, though, that someone here

» would have some information regarding practically any online source for

» Habanos on the internet. There is experience here and members should avail

» themselves of that. The risk of not doing so is exemplified by what

» happened to Mel and easily two dozen other people I know.

»

» Forewarned is forearmed.

»

» Wilkey

Wow, me thinks you read too much into my comment.

If you re-read my post, I state I got my box from Europe, not Costa Rica.

Secondly, I don't state that one shouldn't be concerned the goods came from Costa Rica, simply the fact that not having a box code stamp does not necessarily denote fakes as in my stated scenario. I've been to Costa Rica, actually lived there. Not every cigar in Costa Rica is a fake but hey, what do I know, I've got a life to live!

[El Presidente]

» Secondly, I don't state that one shouldn't be concerned the goods came

» from Costa Rica, simply the fact that not having a box code stamp does not

» necessarily denote fakes as in my stated scenario. I've been to Costa Rica,

» actually lived there. Not every cigar in Costa Rica is a fake but hey, what

» do I know, I've got a life to live!

Correct:

Not every box without a box code is a fake. I have seen plenty of genuine boxes over the years without box codes.

Correct:

Costa Rica sells plenty of genuine Habanos.

Incorrect.

No-one was having a go at you ;-)

[avid toker]

» » Secondly, I don't state that one shouldn't be concerned the goods came

» » from Costa Rica, simply the fact that not having a box code stamp does

» not

» » necessarily denote fakes as in my stated scenario. I've been to Costa

» Rica,

» » actually lived there. Not every cigar in Costa Rica is a fake but hey,

» what

» » do I know, I've got a life to live!

»

» Correct:

»

» Not every box without a box code is a fake. I have seen plenty of genuine

» boxes over the years without box codes.

»

» Correct:

»

» Costa Rica sells plenty of genuine Habanos.

»

» Incorrect.

»

» No-one was having a go at you ;-)

Be that as it may, I was innocently trying to assuage Mel39 and not have him fret unnecessarily. Hey, I'll simply keep mum and let the experts have at it ;-)

Back to your original programming!

[avid toker]

»I've got a life to live!

Who am I kidding, I love cigars and the boards.

No offense meant Wilkey :-P

[Ginseng]

» »I've got a life to live!

»

» Who am I kidding, I love cigars and the boards.

» No offense meant Wilkey :-P

None taken. I totally understand. Hey, I've got two kids, a working wife, and I'm trying to get the eff done with my dissertation or else said wife will kill me in my sleep. She expects to not have to work once I find a faculty position and my parents are waiting to move in with us once I get my Ph.D.

You could say that cigars are my escape from reality. :-D

Wilkey