Virginia Massacre

[Cam]

Unfortunately a friends little brother was hurt in the shootings, I just want to extend to everyone, to all Americans and students in America who use our forum, how deeply sorry and shocked I am.

Cam

[mr.harten]

» Unfortunately a friends little brother was hurt in the shootings, I just

» want to extend to everyone, to all Americans and students in America who

» use our forum, how deeply sorry and shocked I am.

»

» Cam

Cam,

Sorry to hear about your friend's brother. I hope he is alright.

[Professor Twain]

Best wishes to your friend's brother. This is a horrible situation.

[n2advnture]

» Unfortunately a friends little brother was hurt in the shootings, I just

» want to extend to everyone, to all Americans and students in America who

» use our forum, how deeply sorry and shocked I am.

»

» Cam

I have lived here (Virginia) my entire life and this is one of the most horrific events that I can recall happening here. Absolutely horrible.

God speed in your friend's brother's recovery!

~Mark

[DrAlejandro]

very, very tragic... schools are supposed to be safe, don't know where things went wrong :-(

[El Presidente]

Sorry to hear Cam and best wishes.

I was an avid anti gun control evangelist. I grew up hunting for pigs, rabbits and other feral offerings. I was devastated when the gun laws came in during 1996 after the Port Arthur Massacre in Tasmania. Firearms are only available to registered farmers and registered sporting shooters. Waiting periods, police checks, strict gun lockers, only single bolt action rifles permitted in most situations.

I was so angry for many years after the introduction that I ignored the laws and kept my weapons. There was a national gun buy back scheme which commenced in 1997.

The statistics post 1996 in this country spoke for themselves. Gun deaths were down nearly 75%.

Over the period 2000 to 2004 more than half of the firearm deaths (63%) were the result of intentional self-harm (suicide). Homicide was the next most common cause of firearm-related death (23%), followed by unintentional firearm deaths (13%). The remaining 1% were of undetermined intent or the result of legal intervention. Ninety percent of all firearm deaths were in males. Males aged 70 years and older had the highest rate of firearm-related suicide (5.6 per 100,000) while males aged 20 to 29 years had the highest rate of deaths from firearm related homicide (0.9 deaths per 100,000). The death rate due to firearm injury decreased by almost three quarters over the period 1985 to 2004, predominantly due to a dramatic decrease in the rate of fire-arm related suicides.

I handed in my weapons in 2001. We access weapons through the guides we use on various safaris. In retrospect I believed that the country is a safer place without weapons. I still can't believe I think that way.

The US is a different proposition. The right to bear arms is enshrined in your constitution. With that right comes a cost. Only you can assess whether the cost is worth it.

[Bob Loblaw]

Cam,

If you have the opportunity please pass along my best wishes for a full and speedy recovery to your friend's family.

The families and friends of all the victims of this unconscionable tragedy are in my thoughts and prayers.

Goran

[cls515]

Prez, a lot are causing commotion in the US now, calling for stricter gun regulation.

I don't even think it is possible.

I too am offended and upset such a thing could happen. I wish all who are affected a speedy recovery.

[Colt45]

» The US is a different proposition. The right to bear arms is enshrined in

» your constitution.

I feel it's my birthright - the birthright of all humans, the right of self preservation.

In my eyes, the U.S. Constitution merely puts it in writing.

» With that right comes a cost.

Rights come with responsibilities, and some with higher costs.

» Only you can assess whether the cost is worth it.

The cost of giving these rights up would be far greater.

"Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety deserve neither Liberty nor Safety"

The above is simply my opinion on the subject of the right to bear arms, and liberties

in general. It is not intended to diminish what happened in Virginia in any way.

I wish to post no further on the subject.

[El Presidente]

Ross

I can only show that we have had a 75% reduction in gun deaths since gun control. I didn't think it was possible.

I hate giving up freedoms. I detest it. For us, in this country, it was in hindsight a good decision.

[El Rushbo]

» Ross

»

» I can only show that we have had a 75% reduction in gun deaths since gun

» control. I didn't think it was possible.

»

» I hate giving up freedoms. I detest it. For us, in this country, it was in

» hindsight a good decision.

I'm going to spend Thursday morning with my class of AP American Government and Politics students at the National Rifle Association (Insitute for Legislatve Action), in Virginia. Field Trip has been planned for sometime now.

Part of the trip involves meeting with one of their senior lobbyists. Can't wait to ask how they think this incident will impact the gun control v. pro gun lobby in the United States. Especially considering how the NRA-ILA is based in Virginia. I'm interested to see if he'll make a statistical case for the benefits of all "carry" or "conceal" laws...cases which can certainly be made...

Should be interesting to see how the biggest member of the US gun lobby is spinning this catastrophe.

And of course-to any and all involved-our thoughts and prayers...absolutely inconceivable act...God Bless

[ccsmoker]

Dam man sorry about your friend lil bro. Hope he is alright.It was

a horrible mass of confusion.It is amazing how a t

a person that f*#cked up in the head could even get in college.

[Mike33]

» » The US is a different proposition. The right to bear arms is enshrined

» in

» » your constitution.

»

» I feel it's my birthright - the birthright of all humans, the right of

» self preservation.

» In my eyes, the U.S. Constitution merely puts it in writing.

»

If we follow that logic, why don't we let felons have weapons? Do they not have the right to defend themselves? And what defines arms? Should we let people have RPGs? Assault rifles? Nuclear weapons? Why do people think allowing everyone to carry guns will reduce violence? All evidence points to the exact opposite.

Not trying to be a smartass, however; we need to examine why our country continues to tolerate violence. Rob's stats and example are a testament to responsible and practical gun control.

We can argue gun control till we die, but in reality the person who took 32 lives at VT would have found someway to take A LOT of lives, be it a handgun or bomb. Thoughts and prayers go out to everyone at VT.

[Cam]

Thankyou to everyone for their support, as an avid hunter I believe it's not guns that kill people its people that kill people, but the guns in America are only controllable to a point, proper education needs to be administered to the public before tighter laws are imposed.

[Mel]

Rats in cages are safe from pradators. Don't we all wish we could live in a caged, more controlled environment???

Think of it the other way. What if every student was carrying a weapon? He might have killed two or three before some one drew down on him and eliminated the threat.

[anacostiakat]

» Unfortunately a friends little brother was hurt in the shootings, I just

» want to extend to everyone, to all Americans and students in America who

» use our forum, how deeply sorry and shocked I am.

»

» Cam

Sorry to hear this Cam. Prayers and best wishes sent.

This nut legally bought the two guns he used.:-(

He went to the same high school that another nut shot some police officers not long ago.

The nuts abound. . . :crying:

[Freefallguy]

I put off reading this thread until now. I felt it was too close to the tragedy and wanted to honor the lives lost and of their families while grieving respectfully before commenting.

Rob- We had this discussion and as you pointed out the Aussie numbers speak for themselves. It has worked well for your country. PM Howard offered condolences and then pointed a finger, much too early for my liking, at our failure to enact gun control. In my opinion and in contrast to Mr. Howard’s and El Rushbo’s comments here, until we as a nation have had time to heal, now is not the time for political gerrymandering.

As I said then, and you note here, the right of the people to keep and bear arms as allowed by our Constitution will not be usurped. Not in my lifetime. In as much as the Equal Rights Amendment failed, revoking the right to bear arms is even more unlikely.

If, IF such an amendment were to pass it would make criminals of citizen arms bearers, just as it did you until 2001. With an estimated 258 million firearms available in the US as of 1999 (as reported by the National Research Council) no amount of legislation is going to remove them from our society. Baltimore City attempted to buy back firearms a few years ago and yet in a city of over 500,000 , less than 1000 were collected and those were mostly junk from which Joe Citizen saw an opportunity for free cash.

The weapon of choice in a demented individual's hands is not the core issue; rather it’s a pandemic moral and spiritual decline that this country has experienced over the last 40 years. You may have read or have heard it said “no greater love has a man than he gives his life for another.” If I may, please allow me to share someone who epitomized that sentiment:

“Liviu Librescu, 76, had seen the worst horrors of death and destruction as a youngster. He survived the Holocaust. He survived and escaped the persecution of the Romanian communists against Jews in 1978 when he and his wife moved to Israel. He became a world-renown scientist who worked on NASA projects and refused to retire after 20 years of teaching his craft to others. He overcame the worst of the worst and became one of the best. And as his students departed his classroom on Monday, he watched them over his shoulder.

Professor Librescu held shut the door to his classroom, putting himself between a crazed gunman and his students that they might escape to live their lives as his was ending. As one Virginia Tech student wrote to Librescu’s wife, ‘I saw your husband still standing there. He was holding the door closed and looking over his shoulder to make sure everybody else was safe. It was the bravest thing I have ever seen.’ And that’s how Librescu’s journey in life ended—saving others lives while sacrificing his own”. (Ref: The Daily Jot, April 18th, 2007)

Mr. Librescu is honored for making that supreme sacrifice.

[El Presidente]

Rob

I hope I was clear in portraying that what has worked in our country may not necessarily work in yours.

Firearms here are in the main seen as a sporting tool (always has been seen that way). We have no cultural, political, historical or constitutional connection.

I can have a Firearm in my house tomorrow based on the following. I don't think it is too tough?

____________________________________________________

Persons wishing to possess or use a weapon must have a licence (there are some exceptions).

A licence may be issued to an individual or a body.

You must have a genuine reason to own a weapon - this includes being a member of a shooting club, being a recreational shooter, being a collector or having an occupational requirement.

Persons applying for their first licence or for a licence of another category of weapon are required to complete a weapons safety course.

You must have secure storage for your weapons. This includes gun lockers within your residence.

Weapons must be registered to a licence. As long as you have the appropriate licence, there is no restriction on the number of weapons you can own (except under collector heirloom licence and the first year of a concealable sports/target shooters licence).

Registering new weapons to your licence will cost a one-off fee for each firearm.

Some weapons are restricted and must be handed in or made permanently inoperable.

All applications for a licence or permit to acquire must be lodged in person at your local police station.

Any change of address or circumstance must be reported to an Officer in Charge of Police within 14 days of the change.

[smokum]

» The weapon of choice in a demented individual's hands is not the core

» issue; rather it’s a pandemic moral and spiritual decline that this

» country has experienced over the last 40 years. You may have read or have

» heard it said “no greater love has a man than he gives his life for

» another.” If I may, please allow me to share someone who epitomized that

» sentiment:

»

This is so very true....

[JMH]

» Think of it the other way. What if every student was carrying a weapon?

Then shootings would be an even more common occurence than they are already. If you feel you have to carry a gun to feel safe, then you're living in the wrong place.

[Freefallguy]

Hey Rob… No, you were clear and please don’t think I was being critical of your post… I was just throwing out my 2 cents as to why it won’t happen here.

Were it to come down to a government mandated relinquishing, I suppose eventually I (as did you) would submit and cough up my firearms. Well, most of them at least.

[Cam]

Just saw the video of the psycho, isn't it disgusting? Shouldn't the new network have obtained permission before airing it to a billion people? What are you opinions?

[cvm4]

The killer mailed it to NBC and it was up to them to determine whether it was ethical or not to show it. Personally, I think they should have waited.

[Freefallguy]

» Personally, I think they should have

» waited.

Exactly. I have not and will honor the dreg in watching it.

I must do a mea culpa. I learned through email exchanges that El Rushbo thought he had offended me. He did not. It was my mistake to set him along side PM Howard. El Rushbo was merely sharing his thoughts; Howard was decrying our law on the world stage.

El Rushbo, apols my friend.

[Colt45]

Initially, I felt that airing it legitimzed what had happened. But when I really thought

about it, I'd much rather not have someone thinking for me - let people decide

for themselves whether to watch or not. Ethical or not, it is, unfortunately, news.

I have not, and will not watch it.