CIGAR CONCERN. NEED INPUT.

[El Presidente]

I have slowly watched the deterioration of two great cigar brands and can see them going into the abyss of historical relics.

While quality in every other brand has increased over the past 24 months, I have seen no parallel increase in the quality of these two...in fact I have seen some awfull examples. A sheer lack of passion, love and commitment.

Who has purchased "spectacular" examples....box coded post Sept 2002 of Sancho Panza and Rafael Gonzalez

Who are supporters of these brands and why?

Which Vitola's inparticular?

Have you noticed a deviation in quality?

How can the brands be revitalised...and ideas?

I would like to see only three Sancho Panza lines:

Non Plus in12's.

Molinos in 10 box ala new Partagas 898

Sancho Panza Belicoso in timber boxes of 10 and a LE run of 10,000 sticks per annum in cabs of 50.

In Rafael Gonzalez.

Corona Extra again 10 box ala new Partagas 898.

Corona Extra in a LE run of 10,000 sticks per annum in cabs of 50.

[dragon]

Perhaps because those 2 marques are such a tiny percentage of Habanos overall sales, they do not put much time or thought into them.

I have a couple boxes of Sancho Sanchos from 1999 and 2000, and they are just so-so in my opinion, nothing to write home about.

[harwellplant]

i like the sancho panza molinos and non-plus, but i can't say that they are my absolute favorites in those vitolas. i don't even know that mini boxing them will add to their luster, above doling out singles. you can bet that we wont see an sp or rg el, reserva or similar product anytime soon.

[habanohal]

I have a few boxes of 98 Non Plus and Bacherellies. They have been great . The lonsdales are another fine smoke. Havent had SP Belis in a while , but have gone through a 02 and 03 box and 1 plugged cigar.

Nevr had any construction issues with any of them. They are all light/medium body but packed with a sweet , saltiness flavor that I personall enjoy.

But not to say spectacular. Just a good ol Cuban cigar

[El Presidente]

To me the SP Lonsdale is the pick of SP. I love that cigar. Sweet, light, complex...like the foam of a great cappuccino.

Have just noticed some bloody awfull 04/05 SP and RG stock which is completely opposite to what I am seeing in every other line.

[Ken Gargett]

for RG, my only experience was a bit back with the RG Coronas Extra and i found it pleasant but hardly earth moving.

SP has been a disappointment (even though i seem to have a large number in the humidor based on a certain pres's recommendations?). given a few SP Belicoso in Havana and was really disappointed. waste of time. in fact, they really put me off bothering with the brand at all. have tried a few of the SP sancho's and enjoyed them but not sure i'd refill once they are gone.

does darwinism fit with communism? perhaps we are just talking about the future dodos of the cigar world. if it means standards go up elsewhere, i am less concerned by the loss of a couple of the brands (unless it is something i really like which would be an entirely different matter - did we get those PSS2's back in production?)

[habanohal]

Hey Pres......

WHy would you want the amount in boxis cut in half? I would like to see cabs of 100, especially in the Non Plus.

[El Presidente]

Habanohal.

If it doesn't make commercial sense then Habanos s.a will drop them all together.

100's are a no go commercially. You, I and a few dedicated aficionados may purchase them but no one else. The 12 box Trini Reyes have proved very popular. Packaging is going to be smaller in the future, 10's, 15's. It is more affordable to the masses, more affordable to retailers to carry and less spoilage for low turnover operators.

There will also be more Premium Tubos ala Siglo VI.

[Ken Gargett]

the ten packs of P2's being an obvious example. how many of us purchased them?

provided they don't use it as an opportunity to push up the price per stick, i am not adverse to some smaller boxes - sometimes you want a few but not an entire box, whether for financial or purely preference reasons. and prefer buying an entire package than having more single sticks rolling about.

[habanohal]

I understand on smaller packageing and priceing would bo down. I would say that ALOT of us daily cigar smokers have an abundace of stock on which we all overspend our bounderies at times. I know I surely do.

And it is nice ( the 12 pack boxes of reys) I got 2 from you and they look good sitiin in the humi, But I am with Ken that I see ,as in all product packageing that price breaks are given on the amount of product that is bought.

By the way, if you have some really old stock you need to sell.....well let me know :-D :-D

on the 10 packs of P2s' , i was waiting for the 25 ct box, and now just not alot of work to go hog frenzy on the cigar buying.

Also Sancho Panza Rapheal Gonzales and others like Q d orsay are less known brands. The 1st cigar that comes to most anybodys thoughts when Cuban cigars are metioned are #1 Cohiba and #2 Monte Cristo.

t is the same in my buisness ( flooring installation) SOmeone thinks carpet and the 1st name that comes to mind is Mohawk carpeting. But then that is all the marketing through the years, and it works.

[stevejb]

I like the SP NP's and Bach's. All the boxes I have are pre 01. Not a bad cigar in the lot.

As far as RG, I have very limited experience with the brand but did like the TPL's I've tried.

I think Altadis will let these two marquees die a slow death. I'd honestly rather see them do more with ERDM and JL than either of these two anyways.

[ilikecigars]

actually ive always felt and have friends that share my feelings that these both are under rated and over looked brands...

ive picked up boxes of sancho panza beli's which are out of this world tastey and one of if not the cheapest of its vitola...

also rg...i love the earthy flavors old fashion havana straight forward flavors...i picked up some rg lonsdales which are also too die for...also love the panatela extras...both sanchos and rg while somewhat one dimensional, i think have very nice flavor and ive never had a construction issue..ever.

there also priced lower then others of the same size...

you are right though in that they arent moving off the shelves as one can easily find aged sancho nons from say 96...and cheap...while one would be hard pressed to find almost any other brand from 96 in that size..especially for under a 125 or so..

[Wiley]

» To me the SP Lonsdale is the pick of SP. I love that cigar. Sweet, light,

» complex...like the foam of a great cappuccino.

»

» Have just noticed some bloody awfull 04/05 SP and RG stock which is

» completely opposite to what I am seeing in every other line.

Do you mean all of the newer stock of these lines, or that their quality is spotty?

Do you ever smoke or stock the RG Lonsdale? I like what I've tried so far from both these lines, but haven't tried either the Molinos or Lonsdale. But I want to. They're on my list.

The SP Belicoso is one of my favorite cigars.

[El Presidente]

Wiley,

1 in 5 boxes is excellent. The rest I wouldn't even give to Ken.;-)

[Wiley]

» Wiley,

»

» 1 in 5 boxes is excellent. The rest I wouldn't even give to Ken.;-)

Well, this is sad news. But as long as you can tell which are the "excellent" boxes, I guess I'm alright. :cool: