El Presidente Posted April 18, 2006 Posted April 18, 2006 For those with boxes of RASS or multiple singles. Have a close look at length and ring guage. How much variability is there? Now look at the bands (particularly the embossing)...how much variability is there within the one box and other boxes (if you have them to compare). Just seeking a broad base of opinion for reference.
CIGARHead Posted April 18, 2006 Posted April 18, 2006 » For those with boxes of RASS or multiple singles. » » Have a close look at length and ring guage. How much variability is » there? » » Now look at the bands (particularly the embossing)...how much variability » is there within the one box and other boxes (if you have them to » compare). » » Just seeking a broad base of opinion for reference. Rob, I have an '03 BOX of Rass that differ greatly in ring guage. Not so much the length, but there are some real fatties in there...fine by me. I also have an '05 Cab and the Rass seem to be very uniform in length and ring. The embossing on the older Rass is not as "sharp" as the newer. I have always heard that boxes of Rass have the greatest variation in ring gauges than any other brand and vitola.
jgros001 Posted April 18, 2006 Posted April 18, 2006 » For those with boxes of RASS or multiple singles. » » Have a close look at length and ring guage. How much variability is » there? » » Now look at the bands (particularly the embossing)...how much variability » is there within the one box and other boxes (if you have them to » compare). » » Just seeking a broad base of opinion for reference. The bands are very consistent for me...but there is a little variability in length and gauge, very minor on the guage which is somewhat difficult to see without a ruler but the length varies slightly and is easier to decipher. I only have one intact box to look at bands though.
Tampa1257 Posted April 18, 2006 Posted April 18, 2006 Here is a box of Dec 2001 RASS I have seen 100's of boxes of cigars that I have personally purchased from respected vendors that are without doubt Authentic that have varied in length by fractions as well as bands that have had either raised and very detailed or raised printing on them and without definded or raised printing on them inside the same box of cigars. It is not possible for someone to make a claim of genuine or counterfeit based only on those characteristics.
hazleem Posted April 18, 2006 Posted April 18, 2006 Interesting. Do you guys see any difference in quality between those from box of 25 and cabs of 50?
Andyman Posted April 18, 2006 Posted April 18, 2006 Of all my cigars the RASS seem to have the bigges variation of bands. Next in line is the bolivars.. Thanks for the post. I had come to the concusion that all mine were legit but it is good to know I am not going crazy.
Ginseng Posted April 18, 2006 Posted April 18, 2006 Rob, This is a great thread! It is important to learn about the realities of Habanos production as this familiarity can serve to allay concerns about authenticity. Buying from a top-flight dealer can help too. ;-) I've found my Bolivars to have tremendous variations in ring gauge. Here's a picture of an 05 box of Boli CJs. As for band variations, El Rey del Mundo gets my vote for the most dramatic variations in embossing and printing of the band. Then, Bolivar for variation of it's gold ink consistency. Wilkey
Van55 Posted April 18, 2006 Posted April 18, 2006 It's practially impossible to deem a cigar to be counterfeit on the basis of packaging and/or minor size/shape variations. After all, cigars are hand-made of organic matter and the Cubans are not renowned for their packaging quality control. Taste is always the final determinant. If the vendor one deals with is reputable and secures his/her stock from an official LCDH distributor, you can be confident that what you purchase is genuine. Top rated vendors have, been duped, however -- but almost always when making an "exception" and purchasing stock outside of regular LCDH channels.
the_mantis Posted April 18, 2006 Posted April 18, 2006 Differences in ring gauge are common, especially with cigars packaged in dress boxes. The box-pressing can affect different cigars in the same box differently. I've experienced this with not only RASS, but also BRC's and BPC's from various legitimate vendors. Some cigars will be wider and flatter (almost rectangular), while others will be more rounded or evenly square. The cigars on the end of the rows tend to be the ones that flatten out more for some reason. As far as bands, those can vary greatly as well, particularly with embossed bands. The Cubans aren't going to throw away a whole printing lot just because the bands aren't perfect. They're going to use them...perfect or not. Seriously, imperfect bands are just as common (if not more common) as perfect ones, not only on RASS, but on just about every Cuban cigar made. Differences in length, while not as common as the two other scenarios, still can occur. Now if a cigar is off by as much as, say, 1/4 inch, then there may be something to worry about. But an 1/8 inch here or a 1/16 inch there is not incredibly uncommon. Hand-made product...these things happen. Basically, there can be SO many different anomolies in the appearance and particularly packaging of Cuban cigars that the only TRUE test for legitimacy is 1) to know what a Cuban cigar is supposed to taste like and trust your taste buds and 2) only use vendors (like Cigar Czar) that you know source from legitimate distributors and are 100% trustworthy.
Duckguy Posted April 19, 2006 Posted April 19, 2006 FWIW I have a box of RASCC that contains the most inconsistent cigars I've seen in one box. Obvious variation in length and ring gauge. However, the two I've smoked have been right on and I don't yet question authenticity. I can snap some photos if anyone is keen. Josh
Smokiethebear Posted April 19, 2006 Posted April 19, 2006 Excellent post, a box of RASS will be a part of my next order. If it wasn't coming from you, this would be valuable info.:-D
Claudius Posted April 19, 2006 Posted April 19, 2006 » For those with boxes of RASS or multiple singles. » » Have a close look at length and ring guage. How much variability is » there? » » Now look at the bands (particularly the embossing)...how much variability » is there within the one box and other boxes (if you have them to » compare). » » Just seeking a broad base of opinion for reference. I have a box of RASS (I find them to be very strong) and I'll take a look... but can I ask you how one can actually tell the difference between genuine and fake RASS by just looking at them, then? If that's possible at all? I've been reading a lot about fake cigars on various (mainly US-based) discussion forums, but I dont think we really get them here in Europe? :-| But they sure do kill us with taxes on them!
Vetteman Posted April 19, 2006 Posted April 19, 2006 » I've been reading a lot about fake cigars on various (mainly US-based) » discussion forums, but I dont think we really get them here in Europe? :-| I'd reconsider that opinion. While fakes may be more prevalent in the states, I've read they show up everywhere.
Mel Posted April 19, 2006 Posted April 19, 2006 Great to see this on the board. I learned the girth issue right away. I had my cigars sent to me unbanded and then had to re-apply them. I swore that no two in the box were the same girth cause it was like a puzzle with the big cigars and little ones. I had not seen so much variation in the length. Cohiba are the most size consistant.
grateful1 Posted April 19, 2006 Posted April 19, 2006 » Great to see this on the board. I learned the girth issue right away. I had » my cigars sent to me unbanded and then had to re-apply them. I swore that » no two in the box were the same girth cause it was like a puzzle with the » big cigars and little ones. I had not seen so much variation in the » length. Cohiba are the most size consistant. Yes, I've even found some difference - all but slight - in Exhib #3's!
El Presidente Posted April 20, 2006 Author Posted April 20, 2006 » I have a box of RASS (I find them to be very strong) and I'll take a » look... but can I ask you how one can actually tell the difference between » genuine and fake RASS by just looking at them, then? If that's possible at » all? » » I've been reading a lot about fake cigars on various (mainly US-based) » discussion forums, but I dont think we really get them here in Europe? :-| » But they sure do kill us with taxes on them! There are fakes in Europe. It wasn't long ago (2001?) that a distributor was found with 2 million dollars of fakes. I will see if I can locate the story. How to tell the difference between fake and real RASS? You know, I have never seen a faked RASS but nothing beats aroma and flavour as the guide.
Claudius Posted April 20, 2006 Posted April 20, 2006 » There are fakes in Europe. It wasn't long ago (2001?) that a distributor » was found with 2 million dollars of fakes. I will see if I can locate the » story. » » How to tell the difference between fake and real RASS? You know, I have » never seen a faked RASS but nothing beats aroma and flavour as the guide. Hehe, alright... that's what I thought. I'd love to hear the story about that distributor if you can get your hands on it!
raney Posted April 20, 2006 Posted April 20, 2006 This is one of the first lessons I learned from the 'elders' who taught me about habanos. I agonized unbearably over the first few boxes I bougth, sending pictures and test sticks to people, even went to far as to pull out the calipers (lotta good that did me with box-pressed Bolis!) The clincher for me was Rob's post of the Demy-Tassy box and later, a survey of about 30 different bolivar bands from different boxes that someone with an enormous collection posted. The variation in those bands was really eye-opening. What I rely on now is my nose and tastebuds, and the integrity and knowledge of the vendor. Which is why I'm here Nice post El P!
waldo Posted April 20, 2006 Posted April 20, 2006 » For those with boxes of RASS or multiple singles. » » Have a close look at length and ring guage. How much variability is » there? » » Now look at the bands (particularly the embossing)...how much variability » is there within the one box and other boxes (if you have them to » compare). » » Just seeking a broad base of opinion for reference. I just test them by smoking them.:-D (To me) The RASS and RASCC have a very unique flavor that's pretty hard to mistake.
Well Armed Posted April 21, 2006 Posted April 21, 2006 I saw a fake box of RASS from Canada and they were half an inch too long, dark as night, and tasted like air. Very good construction effort, but shite leaf.
CigarZen Posted April 21, 2006 Posted April 21, 2006 Great thread! The RG is so variable it is clear. As an aside, Rob those RASS have that nice colorado redness that imho seems to correspond wioth better flavor. But who knows could be my personal subjectivity influencing me. I have found that these and lighter colored RASS taste better, particularly with some age. Better than the dark wrappered variety. How about you mates, notice any relationship with your taste preference and the color of the wrappers?
El Presidente Posted April 22, 2006 Author Posted April 22, 2006 Red wrapper RASS are the finest of all. When I mean Red wrapper it is a slight reddish hue. Really imparts a sweet aroma.
CigarZen Posted April 22, 2006 Posted April 22, 2006 » Red wrapper RASS are the finest of all. When I mean Red wrapper it is a » slight reddish hue. » » Really imparts a sweet aroma. Rob -- that gives me some confidence that I have not completely peeled my palate. I have the same impression. :-P Anyone else have an opinion -- whether it be different or the same?
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