Power Struggle?

[Hoosh]

12 hours ago, El Presidente said:

If they were the same people they would still be smoking Behike 

Touché 😁

12 hours ago, El Presidente said:

Allied group out of HK (Chinese JV partners) have been calling all the shots since 2020/2021. Somehow between having an anaemic JV partner, Covid, crop volume collapse etc they have managed a trebling of profit and through an audacious brand/product repositioning gamble where they jettisoned 50%-60% of old customers...without a care in the world...and somehow managed to pull it all off. Eggs have been broken (some non moving cigar lines) but over all they would be tickled pink. Their background was travel retail and luxury retail so in retrospect none of this should come as a surprise. 

ICT and machine made cigars have always been part of Tabacuba. It makes complete sense to package machine made cigars in say 5 packs for price sensitive demographics. It is a different division to Habanos S.A.

I purchased some Cohiba Shorts. No apologies, just trash. Would the world be ready for an Esplendido type machine rolled CC? I don’t think so, but what the heck do I know? I could be entirely wrong and the world actually wants that type of CC. I don’t, but again, I am statistically insignificant. I mean, with the world smoke more CC if Cuba had the production ability of say, a Rocky Patel? Would the cost stay the same if they weren’t perceived as a luxury item? Imagine being in the general admission stands at a NASCAR race with a bunch of dudes smoking a Cohiba…

[El Hoze]

49 minutes ago, Hoosh said:

 but those same people staying at that hotel probably could afford a CC, but would they actually be smoking one?

That is exactly my point, at most Four Seasons globally nobody is smoking cigars at all. At the Four Seasons in DC, nobody is smoking cigars. And in the US very few people know what a BHK even is. There are few places in the world where you’ll try to “show off” a cigar in my mind. Four Seasons Geneva is apparently one of them. But every woman in the world can now spot a Birkin Bag from 100 yards away. 

[El Presidente]

12 hours ago, Hoosh said:

Touché 😁

I purchased some Cohiba Shorts. No apologies, just trash.  

I agree with you. Profitable trash. 

12 hours ago, Hoosh said:

Would the world be ready for an Esplendido type machine rolled CC? I don’t think so, but what the heck do I know? 

Your the only one I have ever heard suggest it has even crossed their mind? 

12 hours ago, Hoosh said:

Touché 😁

 I mean, with the world smoke more in CC if Cuba had the production ability of say, a Rocky Patel? Would the cost stay the same if they weren’t perceived as a luxury item? Imagine being in the general admission stands at a NASCAR race with a bunch of dudes smoking a Cohiba…

To be factually correct, Rocky makes almost 25M. Tabacuba roughly 50M 2024

12 hours ago, Hoosh said:

 Would the cost stay the same if they weren’t perceived as a luxury item? Imagine being in the general admission stands at a NASCAR race with a bunch of dudes smoking a Cohiba…

I have no idea where you are going with this 

We have quite a few Cohiba loving NASCAR nuts here. Hi Mike! 

This has nothing at all to do with likes or dislikes or NC v CC. 

100% marketing and market positioning.  The King Poobah of Oilathon is not chasing Arturo Fuente/Padron/Davidoff for a reason and it is not because they are poorer cigars. 

[zacca]

12 hours ago, Hoosh said:

Touché 😁

I purchased some Cohiba Shorts. No apologies, just trash. Would the world be ready for an Esplendido type machine rolled CC? I don’t think so, but what the heck do I know? I could be entirely wrong and the world actually wants that type of CC. I don’t, but again, I am statistically insignificant. I mean, with the world smoke more CC if Cuba had the production ability of say, a Rocky Patel? Would the cost stay the same if they weren’t perceived as a luxury item? Imagine being in the general admission stands at a NASCAR race with a bunch of dudes smoking a Cohiba… 

I would say certain areas that eat up luxury marketing would welcome it because of one of two reasons:

1) HSA wouldn’t use machine made as a selling point…so only astute aficionados would be in the know. So most of their new market who throw $ at things they are told are luxury wouldn’t know the difference 

OR

2) HSA leans into the machine made aspect and say it leads to better QC, better construction, a better product overall. Here the luxury marketing marks still go for it and they probably pick off a small handful of supposed aficionados too. 

[Hoosh]

11 hours ago, El Presidente said:

 Your the only one I have ever heard suggest it has even crossed their mind? 

Spitballin..but what if? What if China  - who couldn’t help themselves by being China - said “Yeah,  The hand rolled Esplendido is perfect for the luxury market, but let’s make a machine rolled Esplendido for the non-luxury market. Money is money and we want more. Shirley it would sell.” 😳😆

11 hours ago, El Presidente said:

I have no idea where you are going with this 

We have quite a few Cohiba loving NASCAR nuts here. Hi Mike! 

Sorry Mike!  I was just trying to envision mouthfuls of machine rolled Esplendido‘s in the mouths of normally cigarette smoking NASCAR fans. If he’s been, he knows.

[BrightonCorgi]

Ferrari, Gucci, etc are essentially lifestyle brands. They sell aspiration along with their core products. Pretty big SKU's. Habanos is limited in what and how they can promote. Ferrari, Gucci, etc have products that are line with their price (compared to the competition). Is Habanos product delivered in line with their price?

Gulf nations may have a different take than the Chinese is main point and curious to see what direction they decide to go 5-10 years from now.

[Fuzz]

 

On 9/2/2025 at 10:26 AM, El Presidente said:

On 9/2/2025 at 10:15 AM, Hoosh said:

Would the world be ready for an Esplendido type machine rolled CC? I don’t think so, but what the heck do I know? I could be entirely wrong and the world actually wants that type of CC. I don’t, but again, I am statistically insignificant. I mean, with the world smoke more CC if Cuba had the production ability of say, a Rocky Patel? Would the cost stay the same if they weren’t perceived as a luxury item? Imagine being in the general admission stands at a NASCAR race with a bunch of dudes smoking a Cohiba…

Your the only one I have ever heard suggest it has even crossed their mind? 

 

On 9/2/2025 at 10:50 AM, Hoosh said:

Spitballin..but what if? What if China  - who couldn’t help themselves by being China - said “Yeah,  The hand rolled Esplendido is perfect for the luxury market, but let’s make a machine rolled Esplendido for the non-luxury market. Money is money and we want more. Shirley it would sell.” 😳😆

Sorry Mike!  I was just trying to envision mouthfuls of machine rolled Esplendido‘s in the mouths of normally cigarette smoking NASCAR fans. If he’s been, he knows.

You never know, the day may be coming....