Very Mild Bolivars

[SCgarman]

6 hours ago, Corylax18 said:

I think the strain changes are part of it, but only a small part. I don't remember people complaining about weak/flavorless Cubans much 15 or 20 years ago. The newer strains are just hybrids of the older ones, were priority was shifted purely from the richness/flavor of the tobacco, to a more broad set of requirements, including flavor, pest resistance and hardiness. The lack of resources is another part. Some farmers are still able to get what they need and produce excellent tobacco, but many aren't. This leads to smaller crops, smaller leaves (especially wrapper leaves) and a general decrease in the average quality of a crop. I think there is another contributor as well. It's not as well documented, because I don't think it's been intentional, but they seem to be fermenting and aging filler for longer the last 7-10 years than they did before. Mostly because they don't have enough wrappers to fill. If they're doing that, good quality tobacco will be ready to smoke much sooner. Lower quality tobacco may not react as well and show signs of being over processed. To the point they loose a lot of the flavor/strength they had. 

When everything goes right, the cigars are still amazing. The best Cuban cigars are almist as good as they've ever been, but I think the average quality is lower than it's been in a long time. If you get a bad box, they may be as bad as Cubans have ever been. It's more of a crap shoot than ever. 

And...at current pricing it is a "crap shoot" many here simply can't afford from a financial aspect. Spending $600/box for a sub-par/sh*tty box of PSD4 or any cigar for that matter is like taking six Ben Franklins and throwing them in your backyard bonfire.

[VeguerosMAN]

On 10/14/2024 at 1:30 AM, Corylax18 said:

It is 100% this.

Cuba doesn't have the money to pay doctors, or keep their electricity on. Tabacuba doesn't have enough money to buy fertilizer, pay farmers or buy their fancy boxes and bands from outside the country. 

They sure as hell don't have enough USD floating around to buy tobacco from other parts of the world. Even if they did, why would they? It would crush their profit margins. They essentially steal the tobacco they get from the farmers, which is the main reason why they are producing less tobacco than they ever have. Farmers are sick of their hardworking generating nothing for them and their families. 

Very true. My Cuban girl's family used to grow tobacco in Pinar but now they grow veggies instead, like yuca and sweet potatoes. The biggest reason why they don't grow tobacco anymore is that the government does not pay them for their hardwork. At least with veggies, one can eat them. Here are some pics of yuca field which was used to be tobacco fields in Pinar.

[SCgarman]

7 hours ago, VeguerosMAN said:

Very true. My Cuban girl's family used to grow tobacco in Pinar but now they grow veggies instead, like yuca and sweet potatoes. The biggest reason why they don't grow tobacco anymore is that the government does not pay them for their hardwork. At least with veggies, one can eat them. Here are some pics of yuca field which was used to be tobacco fields in Pinar.

All the tobacco farmers should emulate these farmers and tell the Cuban gov't to pound sand. Maybe then they will start getting paid as they should. Were there any repercussions against these farmers from big brother?

[VeguerosMAN]

5 hours ago, SCgarman said:

All the tobacco farmers should emulate these farmers and tell the Cuban gov't to pound sand. Maybe then they will start getting paid as they should. Were there any repercussions against these farmers from big brother?

I will find out whether there were any repercussions.

[Lt4-396]

4 hours ago, SCgarman said:

All the tobacco farmers should emulate these farmers and tell the Cuban gov't to pound sand. Maybe then they will start getting paid as they should. Were there any repercussions against these farmers from big brother?

It is complete hearsay but I remember a friend of mine used to spend several months at a time in Cuba over 2+ decades and a farmer once told him if he didn't grow tobacco there was fear the gov't would essentially evict him and his family from the land and transplant a new "willing" farmer.

[Corylax18]

4 hours ago, SCgarman said:

All the tobacco farmers should emulate these farmers and tell the Cuban gov't to pound sand. Maybe then they will start getting paid as they should. Were there any repercussions against these farmers from big brother?

 

7 minutes ago, Lt4-396 said:

It is complete hearsay but I remember a friend of mine used to spend several months at a time in Cuba over 2+ decades and a farmer once told him if he didn't grow tobacco there was fear the gov't would essentially evict him and his family from the land and transplant a new "willing" farmer.

Yeah, @Lt4-396 has it nailed. The farmers don't own anything. The government owns the land and allows the farmers the "pleasure" of farming it. The government can take the land back and give it to someone else to farm whenever they please. 

But, at this point, who would they give it to? The threat rings pretty hollow to me, but that's easy to say without any skin in the game. I'm not aware of the government actually following through with this threat recently, but the threat is always out there. 

[NSXCIGAR]

On 10/17/2024 at 9:38 AM, VeguerosMAN said:

If Bolivar (which is supposed to be the strongest line from Habanos) is mild, is it safe to say that Connecticut shade wrapped Non-Cuban cigars have more taste and strength than any Habanos out there?

With the exception of the BBF I don't think Boli has had a "robust" profile since 2000. BRC and Libertadores are downright mild. I think VR Famosos are much closer to the pre-2000 Boli profile than any Boli today. 

On 10/17/2024 at 7:35 AM, Corylax18 said:

they seem to be fermenting and aging filler for longer the last 7-10 years than they did before

Haven't heard that before. Interesting. What's your take on any impact from soil depletion? 

[Corylax18]

On 10/18/2024 at 9:18 PM, NSXCIGAR said:

Haven't heard that before. Interesting. What's your take on any impact from soil depletion? 

That's a good question, but one that I can't answer definitively. I've only spent appreciable time on 5 or 6 farms. All of which are towards the top of the ladder in terms of resource availability. They are run by three Habanos men of the year, a former member of the National Assembly of Peoples Power (essentially Cuban Parliament) and another curiously well connected guy. 

All of those farms have no real issues with soil depletion or erosion. All are in prime locations, with access to rivers, diesel pumps to irrigate on demand, tractors and the fuel to keep both running. They all have live stock, small plots around the farm where they grow other crops, and huge compost piles that they feed throughout the year with animal manure, plant waste, kitchen scraps, etc. That compost adds organic matter and microbes/good bacteria back into the soil. Add in cover crops during the summer (not every summer, for some reason I have yet to identify) and the fact that they plough the tobacco stalks back into the soil after harvest and I don't think the soils on these farms are much different than they were 40 or 50 years ago. I cant say the same for the majority of farms where the farmers don't have the same level of resources.