Miami counterfeit bust & gray market supply chain

[KarlJ]

The recent news of Jorge and his Cuban counterfeit scheme has me wondering about supply chain in the gray market. Now I understand that authorized retailers get their inventory from habanos distributors. But what about the gray market? My understanding of gray market, and correct me if I’m wrong, is that they get their inventory from authorized retailers? I don’t know if it’s overstock, unsold/undesirable stock, returns etc etc?  
But what are the chances of gray market vendors getting their inventory from the likes of Jorge?

Obviously there are gray market vendors that that have the reputation of selling counterfeits. And I’d imagine their operation looks a bit like Jorge’s. But there are legit gray market vendors, so what does their supply chain look like? How do they mitigate the risk of counterfeits?

[El Presidente]

There are different types of gray market vendors. 

1. sourcing exclusively through one Habanos distributor
2. sourcing from more than one Habanos distributor. 
3. sourcing from Habanos distributors and privateer wholesalers. 
4. sourcing from Habanos distributors, privateer wholesalers, Cuba direct, retailers. 
5. Sourcing privateer wholesalers, Cuba direct, retailers. 

The first two are the only 100% safe ones. Unfortunately, it  has been slim pickings for gray traders as distributors don't have the supply volume. 

What you have seen is previous 1 & 2 level gray market dealers move into a mix of 3/4 &5. Some have got into trouble. Others have stayed with 1& 2 + moved into NC. 

Jorge's product won't end up in top tier gray market. It is not good enough. 

However, high quality fakes have been found in previously well regarded gray market vendors. These didn't come from HSA distributors. 

Let's not forget, there is burgeoning private sale market where folks are being skimmed daily. Often fakes are being sold without the knowledge of the seller. There are also pure bastards out there who are making a nice little income out of knowingly selling fakes. 

Jorge is a different kettle of fish. US market specific. Stores (out back/under the table),/online/FB/social. Nothing too educated in the world of CC. Jorge and team would have a patsy with mobile phone, a van, a PO box and a very cheap USPS rate. 

Material would likely come from El Salvador or surrounds. They are already making cigar boxes for the US legit industry, speak Spanish and have plenty of ongoing trade with the US (existing brokers/bank accounts et al). 

[HoyoDC]

On 3/15/2024 at 10:09 AM, El Presidente said:

There are different types of gray market vendors. 

1. sourcing exclusively through one Habanos distributor
2. sourcing from more than one Habanos distributor. 
3. sourcing from Habanos distributors and privateer wholesalers. 
4. sourcing from Habanos distributors, privateer wholesalers, Cuba direct, retailers. 
5. Sourcing privateer wholesalers, Cuba direct, retailers. 

The first two are the only 100% safe ones. Unfortunately, it  has been slim pickings for gray traders as distributors don't have the supply volume. 

What you have seen is previous 1 & 2 level gray market dealers move into a mix of 3/4 &5. Some have got into trouble. Others have stayed with 1& 2 + moved into NC. 

Jorge's product won't end up in top tier gray market. It is not good enough. 

However, high quality fakes have been found in previously well regarded gray market vendors. These didn't come from HSA distributors. 

Let's not forget, there is burgeoning private sale market where folks are being skimmed daily. Often fakes are being sold without the knowledge of the seller. There are also pure bastards out there who are making a nice little income out of knowingly selling fakes. 

Jorge is a different kettle of fish. US market specific. Stores (out back/under the table),/online/FB/social. Nothing too educated in the world of CC. Jorge and team would have a patsy with mobile phone, a van, a PO box and a very cheap USPS rate. 

Material would likely come from El Salvador or surrounds. They are already making cigar boxes for the US legit industry, speak Spanish and have plenty of ongoing trade with the US (existing brokers/bank accounts et al). 

Great summary!! Where do LCDH shops stands in comparison? And also when it comes to seeking online vs at their stores?  Are they 100 percent trusted or not really ?

[Hammer Smokin']

We have seen actual examples of fakes being purchased from LCDH shops on this very board. It's not common, but it happens. 

[HoyoDC]

The problem, I believe, is that LCDH stores are not audited or disciplined at all.  

[KCCubano]

There are only a couple of LCDH shops I will buy from these days. 

[VeguerosMAN]

I was about to pull the trigger and buy this box of Monte - my Cuban girl has a friend who sells stolen cigars from the factory. Looks legit to me, but I don't know...  

[Arabian]

They all seem to have an amigo at the factory or the embassy. 

[El Presidente]

22 hours ago, Hammer Smokin' said:

We have seen actual examples of fakes being purchased from LCDH shops on this very board. It's not common, but it happens. 

It is a little frightening. 

Still, you trickle supply for 2 years....then tell them to go sell NC...don't be surprised when desperate people do desperate things. 

 

[NSXCIGAR]

On 3/14/2024 at 6:01 PM, HoyoDC said:

Great summary!! Where do LCDH shops stands in comparison? And also when it comes to seeking online vs at their stores?  Are they 100 percent trusted or not really ?

As pointed out above LCDHs are not beyond reproach. They are not policed well if at all by either HSA or the distributors. Most of any given LCDH's stock is likely genuine but when it comes to higher-end product as @KCCubano notes there are only a handful of shops in the world including LCDHs that I'd feel comfortable buying from. 

Some of the fakes floating around the world today are truly impressive in their appearance. Trust in one's vendor is paramount. 

[ha_banos]

On the lower end of the scale but very much a favourite, Montecarlos. This popped up on Reddit from one of the well known trusted vendors on their list. Not a UK vendor.

 

[Fugu]

1 hour ago, ha_banos said:

On the lower end of the scale but very much a favourite, Montecarlos. This popped up on Reddit from one of the well known trusted vendors on their list. Not a UK vendor.

 

What’s wrong with it? New packaging - but apart from that?

[Li Bai]

42 minutes ago, Fugu said:

What’s wrong with it? New packaging, apart from that?

What makes you think they're fake? I'm also interested.

[ha_banos]

42 minutes ago, Fugu said:

What’s wrong with it? New packaging - but apart from that?

UK health sticker, but no EMS or HF export sticker. So did it not go through H&F? But some thoughtful soul still bothered to put an UK NHS warning sticker on it?

[Fugu]

5 minutes ago, ha_banos said:

UK health sticker, but no EMS or HF export sticker. So did it not go through h&F? But some thoughtful soul still bothered to put an NHS warning sticker on it?

There are grey vendors that go through that supply chain, and which don’t have the H&F sticker (some offshore). Not necessarily a sign of falsification.

[KarlJ]

On 3/14/2024 at 6:09 PM, El Presidente said:

There are different types of gray market vendors. 

1. sourcing exclusively through one Habanos distributor
2. sourcing from more than one Habanos distributor. 
3. sourcing from Habanos distributors and privateer wholesalers. 
4. sourcing from Habanos distributors, privateer wholesalers, Cuba direct, retailers. 
5. Sourcing privateer wholesalers, Cuba direct, retailers. 

The first two are the only 100% safe ones. Unfortunately, it  has been slim pickings for gray traders as distributors don't have the supply volume. 

What you have seen is previous 1 & 2 level gray market dealers move into a mix of 3/4 &5. Some have got into trouble. Others have stayed with 1& 2 + moved into NC. 

Jorge's product won't end up in top tier gray market. It is not good enough. 

However, high quality fakes have been found in previously well regarded gray market vendors. These didn't come from HSA distributors. 

Let's not forget, there is burgeoning private sale market where folks are being skimmed daily. Often fakes are being sold without the knowledge of the seller. There are also pure bastards out there who are making a nice little income out of knowingly selling fakes. 

Jorge is a different kettle of fish. US market specific. Stores (out back/under the table),/online/FB/social. Nothing too educated in the world of CC. Jorge and team would have a patsy with mobile phone, a van, a PO box and a very cheap USPS rate. 

Material would likely come from El Salvador or surrounds. They are already making cigar boxes for the US legit industry, speak Spanish and have plenty of ongoing trade with the US (existing brokers/bank accounts et al). 

That gives me, and everyone else, a better picture of how that market works.

Thank you for sharing!