Why does Altidas still suck?

[HoyoDC]

Over 10 years ago experts claimed Altidas will fix all quality issues. Now here we are in 2024 with bad quality and higher prices?  How can a company fail that miserably and continues to do so?

[El Presidente]

4 hours ago, HoyoDC said:

Over 10 years ago experts claimed Altidas will fix all quality issues. Now here we are in 2024 with bad quality and higher prices?  How can a company fail that miserably and continues to do so?

Hoyo DC, I think you have the cart before the horse. 

• I think you are referring to the 50% JV partner of Habanos S.A. Altadis is largely gone as the 50% was purchased by a Chinese investment consortium from Imperial Tobacco (with the Altadis management team in place) in 2020. Yes, many old Altadis execs are still involved under the new JV regime. 
• Cubatobacco is the Cuban Joint venture partner. Habanos S.A. is strictly a marketing business. 
• Tabacuba runs the factories and pre-industry. 
• Quality has indeed improved dramatically over the past 20 years. It is still not where it should be. 2024 does not have bad quality. It has consistency issues. 
• A marketing JV partner cannot fix production issues. They may have input, but fixing them they cannot do. That is the Cuban side. 
• Cuba is broke. They cannot fund enough food/medicine/fuel/power/fertiliser/water. Tobacco pre-industry is in a state of disrepair. 
• Price increases are a disgrace but the only way the business could remain solvent (ish) with production down some 60%. It was the low hanging fruit. Have they "overstretched".....we are finding out or about to find out. This game is in play. 

Blaming Altadis/Imperial/New investment partners who only have control of the marketing is a stretch. The problems are bone deep and beyond them. 

[HoyoDC]

I guess you are right but cannot they see that they will eventually lose the market to new world cigars.  The Chinese have cash, and the product margin is little better than crack.  

[El Presidente]

18 minutes ago, HoyoDC said:

I guess you are right but cannot they see that they will eventually lose the market to new world cigars.  The Chinese have cash, and the product margin is little better than crack.  

They will lose.....and are prepared to lose a % of their market. They have simply priced that in. 

In terms of investment partners (Chinese or otherwise), you are investment partners in "Marketing", not production. 

Why on earth, anyone under the current system would hand Cuba money toward pre-industry and factory production is beyond me. They would lose their shirts. 

[HoyoDC]

The saddest thing in the world is when you have a stealth product that nobody can beat but still screw it up!!!!!🔝 

[El Presidente]

8 minutes ago, HoyoDC said:

The saddest thing in the world is when you have a stealth product that nobody can beat but still screw it up!!!!!🔝 

The Cuban Cigar world is like an onion. Everything makes sense when you peel away the layers. Unfortunately, right now, the core of that onion is a little rotten. There is plenty of blame to share around, but the core rot is the Cuban state. 

[GoodStix]

Thanks for the insights, Rob.  I was aware they hadn’t been addressing pre-industry, but didn’t know they can’t.  Thanks for the info.

[Kaips1]

4 hours ago, HoyoDC said:

I guess you are right but cannot they see that they will eventually lose the market to new world cigars.  The Chinese have cash, and the product margin is little better than crack.  

You must not be selling crack in the right places

[GoodStix]

5 hours ago, VeguerosMAN said:

What does it mean by pre-industry?

Tobacco production before the factory stage — eg: farm fields and curing barns.

[Boss Hog]

After quickly glancing at the title of this thread, I thought this fellow was disappointed in his sneakers. 🤣

[El Presidente]

39 minutes ago, VeguerosMAN said:

Never heard of Altidas until now actually. Are they partners with Habanos? If so, more headaches to deal with.

Google or ChatGPT4 is your friend. 

 

On 1/27/2024 at 12:34 PM, El Presidente said:

Hoyo DC, I think you have the cart before the horse. 

• I think you are referring to the 50% JV partner of Habanos S.A. Altadis is largely gone as the 50% was purchased by a Chinese investment consortium from Imperial Tobacco (with the Altadis management team in place) in 2020. Yes, many old Altadis execs are still involved under the new JV regime. 
• Cubatobacco is the Cuban Joint venture partner. Habanos S.A. is strictly a marketing business. 
• Tabacuba runs the factories and pre-industry. 
• Quality has indeed improved dramatically over the past 20 years. It is still not where it should be. 2024 does not have bad quality. It has consistency issues. 
• A marketing JV partner cannot fix production issues. They may have input, but fixing them they cannot do. That is the Cuban side. 
• Cuba is broke. They cannot fund enough food/medicine/fuel/power/fertiliser/water. Tobacco pre-industry is in a state of disrepair. 
• Price increases are a disgrace but the only way the business could remain solvent (ish) with production down some 60%. It was the low hanging fruit. Have they "overstretched".....we are finding out or about to find out. This game is in play. 

Blaming Altadis/Imperial/New investment partners who only have control of the marketing is a stretch. The problems are bone deep and beyond them. 

 

[Chas.Alpha]

Yeah, Google led me here to FOH. See where that all got us?…😔

[cigcars]

On 1/26/2024 at 8:15 PM, HoyoDC said:

Over 10 years ago experts claimed Altidas will fix all quality issues. Now here we are in 2024 with bad quality and higher prices?  How can a company fail that miserably and continues to do so?

     *CORPORATE CHEAPENING OF & MASS PRODUCTION COMMERCIALISM instead of QUALITY!!