One for the FOH Columbo's: What time period are we looking at here?

[El Presidente]

 

 

 

 

[NSXCIGAR]

You got me. Don't see anything that narrows it down assuming all these are from the same period. Best I can do is 1932-1960.

Some interesting things:

- I don't know if the "J. Herrera" brand is Cuban. Also pull tabs on the cellophane weren't common for hand made CCs. 

- I've never seen a Bauza band with "HABANOS" on it. That is very strange. 

- Have no idea what "La Flor de ______" is. It was a common brand name and Cremas is a very common model name. 

- The "Cedros No. 1" clearly has the pre-Rev custom Cuban band style but I can't make out any more details. Definitely not the logo of a major brand. 

[MossybackR]

After skimming the CCW, I was surprised to see that the Troya is listed as current production. That particular stick pictured appears to be no older than 2005, judging by the band 🤔

[Shrimpchips]

Took a while, but from the first and second pictures, J Herrera likely is “La Regionale” Jose Herrera y Cia, a brand of cigars from the Canary Islands.

http://www.jaberni-coleccionismo-vitolas.com/1C.5.999_Jose_Herrera_Talavera.htm

More Herrera bands:

https://www.lastdodo.com/en/areas/3097127-company-bands-j-herrera-y-cia

Third pic:

Cigar next to the Bauza is a Castañeda, not sure of size or date.

Cigar in the tubos appears to be a Cifuentes cristaltubo, presumably pre-1960.

 

edit:  dug up some more on Bauza.  Seems that the owners were of Canarian origin, so perhaps this collection is by the way of the Canary Islands.  Not sure that helps much, but it’s some more info.

https://www.todocuba.org/descubriendo-tabaco-cubano-la-antigua-bauza/

http://www.scielo.org.mx/scielo.php?script=sci_arttext&pid=S0186-03482013000300005

more Bauza bands:

https://www.lastdodo.com/en/areas/2127373-bauza

[NSXCIGAR]

So the NC Herrera puts the minimum age of the group at post-Rev but the Cedros No. 1 clearly has a band that I don't recall seeing post-Rev. 

The Bauza I'm going to assume is a NC. With Habanos yet to be created there wouldn't have been a huge fuss made about the use of the term. 

The Cifuentes CT was gone by "early 90s" so I'm assuming it coincided with the creation of HSA. 

So if all of these cigars are from the same period (which is unlikely) we're down to 1962-1993 but probably closer to 1962 based on the custom CC band on the Cedros No. 1 which has a brand logo I don't recognize. 

[Shrimpchips]

The Cedros are probably also a Canarian maker:

https://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/100+-cigar-bands-1920-s-1940-s-of-canary-islands
 

Can’t make out much detail but there’s two bands in the collection that look like the Cedros band.  If the age of the collection is true, these bands were in use at least as early as 1940.

 

How do you conclude the age of the Herrera being post rev? Based on the short bio from the above link, I would put the timeframe closer to 1930-1960s, but that’s just based on the dates in the article.  

Also how do you conclude the Bauza is NC? All indications are that Bauza was always a Cuban brand; it’s apparently still produced at least until very recently as a peso cigar.

 

Apparently pull tabs were patented in the US in 1938, so assuming that the Canarians hadn’t invented it first, the Herreras are from 1938 onwards at least.  
https://patents.google.com/patent/US2114804A/en

CJ wrote that cello extended to Cuba in 1934, so assuming that whatever source they got that information from is correct, the oldest the cigars could be is likely from 1934 onwards: 
https://www.cigarjournal.com/cellophane-wrapper-what-is-it-exactly/

 

edit: Troyas are likely Universales; pre-rev introduction, discontinued 2005.  Lack of pull tab probably dates the minimum age, but not sure on when that was added. 

[NSXCIGAR]

3 hours ago, Shrimpchips said:

How do you conclude the age of the Herrera being post rev? Based on the short bio from the above link, I would put the timeframe closer to 1930-1960s, but that’s just based on the dates in the article.  

You're right--I assumed he had moved production to Canarias from Cuba but he did not. He evidently was a Canarias OG. I misread the selling of the brand to Aleman after 1960. So we can go back to 1938 on those to whenever. 

3 hours ago, Shrimpchips said:

Also how do you conclude the Bauza is NC? All indications are that Bauza was always a Cuban brand; it’s apparently still produced at least until very recently as a peso cigar.

I was able to find this band that does show HABANOS which is something I've never seen before on anything Cuban. It shows "Cuba" and "Cabaiguan" which is near Sancti Spiritus and could be the source for peso cigars of which Bauza was (or at least domestic consumption only). Now Bauza is a well-known NC brand but I will agree those Bauzas look Cuban.

3 hours ago, Shrimpchips said:

CJ wrote that cello extended to Cuba in 1934

No doubt cello goes back a ways. 1930s wouldn't surprise me. It's the pull tabs I haven't seen that was a tip off to me the Herreras were NC. 

3 hours ago, Shrimpchips said:

Troyas are likely Universales;

Could be but Troya was a very popular and diverse brand pre-Rev so you would need the exact measurements to confirm. Even post-Rev there may have been some stragglers. 

3 hours ago, Shrimpchips said:

Can’t make out much detail but there’s two bands in the collection that look like the Cedros band.  If the age of the collection is true, these bands were in use at least as early as 1940.

Two? I see only the one. That band is definitely the custom/diplomatic band Cuba used for a long time. It's possible it's NC of course. Can't rule it out. But if so then we have no idea what it is. 

So the Herreras could be any year from 1938. Troya goes back to 32. Bauza who knows as it was domestic production and may have continued post-Rev although probably not that far. I would say we can put a maximum age on the Bauzas at 1970s? 

So we're pretty much at 1938-1970s. Still not much better.

[Shrimpchips]

13 hours ago, NSXCIGAR said:

Two? I see only the one. That band is definitely the custom/diplomatic band Cuba used for a long time. It's possible it's NC of course. Can't rule it out. But if so then we have no idea what it is.

In the link there are four images of the collection; the second image has a similar band to the pictures Cedros No 1 band posted by @El Presidente.  Judging by the similarity of font, band appearance and written text, I would have to think that these aren’t Cuban diplomatic/customs, but Canarian Cedros.  Can’t be 100% sure, but given the other cigars in the collection, I’d bet these are Canarian cigars, not Cuban diplomatic cigars.

 

For Bauza, according to CCW, it was a discontinued brand post-rev, so the newest the Bauza could be are 1962; given the likely age of the other cigars in the collection I would hazard a guess that the Cifuentes is also a pre-rev version (unless that cigar alone is somehow 20+ years younger than the rest of the collection).  On the whole, seems like this collection is likely to be dated between very late 1930s to early 1960s? 

[NSXCIGAR]

4 hours ago, Shrimpchips said:

In the link there are four images of the collection; the second image has a similar band to the pictures Cedros No 1 band posted by @El Presidente.  Judging by the similarity of font, band appearance and written text, I would have to think that these aren’t Cuban diplomatic/customs, but Canarian Cedros.  Can’t be 100% sure, but given the other cigars in the collection, I’d bet these are Canarian cigars, not Cuban diplomatic cigars.

Yep, I see the Cedros band. That's pretty much identical. I'll go Canarias on that. 

4 hours ago, Shrimpchips said:

For Bauza, according to CCW, it was a discontinued brand post-rev, so the newest the Bauza could be are 1962; given the likely age of the other cigars in the collection I would hazard a guess that the Cifuentes is also a pre-rev version (unless that cigar alone is somehow 20+ years younger than the rest of the collection).  On the whole, seems like this collection is likely to be dated between very late 1930s to early 1960s? 

CCW shows Bauza as a pre-Rev brand but these cigars were domestic production only. As I said I'd agree they were probably gone by 1962 but they could have easily continued on until the 1970s.

The Cifuentes could be 1928-1993. 

The Herreras 1938-?

Troya 1932-1980

Are we thinking the Herreras stopped in 1960 when Aleman purchased it or do we think Herrera continued? If we have Herrera ending in 1960 the best we can do is still 1938-1960. 

[Shrimpchips]

8 minutes ago, NSXCIGAR said:

CCW shows Bauza as a pre-Rev brand but these cigars were domestic production only. As I said I'd agree they were probably gone by 1962 but they could have easily continued on until the 1970s.

Are we thinking the Herreras stopped in 1960 when Aleman purchased it or do we think Herrera continued? If we have Herrera ending in 1960 the best we can do is still 1938-1960. 

Given the connection of the founders of Bauza being Canarian, and apparent large numbers of Canarians in Cabaiguan, it wouldn’t be inconceivable that a Canarian would be bringing these Bauza cigars to the Canary Islands either in personal or commercial quantities, so even if they were domestic only even pre-rev, I’m sure a few made it off the island. 
 

Based on the translated text, I interpreted it as the brand stopped production after the sale/Herrera going back to work as a blender.
 
Given the info available, probably best we could do is a 25 year range likely between 1938-1962.  If someone can dig up more info about the Canarian cigar industry we might be able to narrow things down, but I think it’s safe to say most of this collection is likely over 60 years old, however isn’t mostly Cuban.

[NSXCIGAR]

3 hours ago, Shrimpchips said:

Given the info available, probably best we could do is a 25 year range likely between 1938-1962.  If someone can dig up more info about the Canarian cigar industry we might be able to narrow things down, but I think it’s safe to say most of this collection is likely over 60 years old, however isn’t mostly Cuban.

Yeah, I think that's as good as it's going to get. I think 1962 is fair for Herrera as some may still have been in the pipeline after the 1960 sale so that's our upper limit, therefore the age of the collection (if from the same period) is dictated by Herrera which was introduced latest and ended earliest. 

 

On 7/12/2022 at 10:15 AM, MossybackR said:

After skimming the CCW, I was surprised to see that the Troya is listed as current production. That particular stick pictured appears to be no older than 2005, judging by the band 🤔

Yes, they can still be found in Cuba, particularly at airports although I have seen them behind the counters of some shops. Belinda is also still around as a domestic-only cigar in the same way Bauza was. 

[Miguel Gracias]

Starting from 80 euros not bad...