Little Critters...

[Luca]

Hi FoH,

 

Bought a A/T box of 15 HdM Epicure Especial recently. My usual process with anything new coming into my humidor is:

- Inspect each individual cigar (for mould, marks or signs of tobacco beetles)

- zip lock bag em and place in freezer for 3 - 5 days.

- place in humidor and monitor.

 

As I took these out of the freezer to defrost I noticed these holes! I'm glad I froze them. So glad. It sends shivers down my spine imagining what they'd do to my other cigars :'(

 

Has anyone encountered this before? Did the tobacco beetles "wake up" when they were being frozen?

 

At the moment I have quarantined the good ones in a zip lock bag and am going to keep them out of my humidor for a while. Do you think they're safe? They all look fine.

 

I might dissect one of these beetle riddled ones just to see what damage they've done!

 

Thanks for reading and apologies for the huge photo dump.

 

Luca

 

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[irratebass]

So, there weren't any noticeable holes before you placed them in the freezer? Do you put them in the fridge 1st?

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[Luca]

So, there weren't any noticeable holes before you placed them in the freezer? Do you put them in the fridge 1st?

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Yep no noticeable holes when I inspected them. I always like to place the cigars in the fridge prior to freezing so they don't get so much of a shock in the change of temps. Should of mentioned that in my original post. Same goes when defrosting them.

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[irratebass]

Yeah, same here, that is odd man, never seen this before. I was gonna say contact your vendor, but now I'm not sure.

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[Luca]

They are a reputable vendor. I'm not sure if I should let them know or not. I think El Prez put a post up recently showing a similar incident of a bug surviving the freezing process.

......

Maybe they're adapting?

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[Ivaylo]

wow!!! i guess when you put them in the fridge they were already hatched and when felt the cold they started trying to escape or something. Did you see actual beetles in the zip lock?

[Islandboy]

Damn....that’s scary.

[cigcars]

      In looking at those pics the thoughts going through my mind was, "OH NOOOO!!!!  AGONY!  AGONYYYYY!!!  B'cause ain't that just the worst sight we can have for our beloved smokes!!!   However, unlike you, some of us don't diligently freeze our smokes once they arrive, but only do that once the signs of damage appear. I'm glad for you that you dealt with those little @#%&# buggers. And true, I've never experienced the beetles coming out once in the freezer after lying dormant. Ya' learn something new everyday 

[havanaclub]

Wow. Can't believe you saw this after the freeze. Not sure if I have seen this before either as some have said. Scary for sure. Good on you for your diligence.
I have read up on some scientific studies about tobacco beetles with regard to length of time and degree of temperature to kill beetles, larvae etc. This was when I did my first freeze when I received a box with a few damaged from beetles.
What I noticed was the temperature had to be very low. Can't recall the amount but I will try to look it up for you. My freezer on my fridge actually didn't get quite cold enough for complete destruction. So I just added a few extra days. Think it was 4-5 days. Where a deep freeze that you get in a commercial freezer the numbers on this study said you could do it for 24-36 hours. It was a really cool study and chart. I am gonna look for it and try and post it here.
Good luck


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[havanaclub]

Here is a little guide from a study done in Japan 2005.

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[rhcolbert]

Damn those little things. Seen them take out a ton of boxes in a cigar store before. Thank god they were only NCs!

[WoadyCypress]

My question is, do you freeze the entire box or take cigars out of the box? I'm sure to receive a few boxes this weekend and have never frozen any of my other stock. Mainly because they were individual sticks of NCs which I could go to my local B&M and replace. Now that I'm starting to get CCs from our sponsor I'd like to ensure they will remain safe. Any help on this is appreciated.

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[shlomo]

I have seen them. Smoked them. Crunched and popped them. Keep them separate from your regular stock. I suggest a tupperware with a boveda. Smoke away. Smoke even the ones with holes. Just keep your finger over the hole. I have done it several times and its been fine.

[Luca]

My question is, do you freeze the entire box or take cigars out of the box? I'm sure to receive a few boxes this weekend and have never frozen any of my other stock. Mainly because they were individual sticks of NCs which I could go to my local B&M and replace. Now that I'm starting to get CCs from our sponsor I'd like to ensure they will remain safe. Any help on this is appreciated.

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I inspect the cigars on arrival and then i place them back in their box. I then put the whole box in the freezer. This box of Epicure Especials were in for 3 1/2 days. I try to aim for 5 days if I can.



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[gweilgi]

7 hours ago, irratebass said:

Yeah, same here, that is odd man, never seen this before. I was gonna say contact your vendor, but now I'm not sure.

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I always alert the merchant when this happens to me.  Not even necessarily to complain or demand a replacement, but just to give him a heads-up ... whatever stock of mine is at risk, the merchant has a LOT more at risk.

It's only annoying when the merchant denies that he has a problem ....

[Luca]

7 hours ago, havanaclub said:

Wow. Can't believe you saw this after the freeze. Not sure if I have seen this before either as some have said. Scary for sure. Good on you for your diligence.
I have read up on some scientific studies about tobacco beetles with regard to length of time and degree of temperature to kill beetles, larvae etc. This was when I did my first freeze when I received a box with a few damaged from beetles.
What I noticed was the temperature had to be very low. Can't recall the amount but I will try to look it up for you. My freezer on my fridge actually didn't get quite cold enough for complete destruction. So I just added a few extra days. Think it was 4-5 days. Where a deep freeze that you get in a commercial freezer the numbers on this study said you could do it for 24-36 hours. It was a really cool study and chart. I am gonna look for it and try and post it here.
Good luck


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Thanks for the post. Very useful. I don't think my freezer is cold enough as it is a regular household freezer. Do you think 3.5 days is enough? Should I re-freeze the rest of the batch? I have them quarantined at the moment.

 

[WoadyCypress]

I inspect the cigars on arrival and then i place them back in their box. I then put the whole box in the freezer. This box of Epicure Especials were in for 3 1/2 days. I try to aim for 5 days if I can.



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Should I try and freeze even if my storage stays at 65df?

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[kuma]

I do not inspect any when I receive my smokes from FOH.  And this may sound like a dumb question but I have to ask.

So I have not migrated from tupperwear containers ( w / humi. packs and this feels like living in my

parents basement) to more high end humidors, some day, some day.

Well here is my thought.  If I keep say two SLB boxes in one tupperware container

and one of the SLB boxes has cigars that are infected how pray tell can they (beetles) get to the

other SLB in the same continer.  And if they (beetles) can how do they perform that feat.

 

[Luca]

Should I try and freeze even if my storage stays at 65df?

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I would definitely. Those beetles must of been there or had come to life during transit. They wouldn't of taken much time to come out and wreck havoc on my cigars.

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[Luca]

I do not inspect any when I receive my smokes from FOH.  And this may sound like a dumb question but I have to ask.

So I have not migrated from tupperwear containers ( w / humi. packs and this feels like living in my

parents basement) to more high end humidors, some day, some day.

Well here is my thought.  If I keep say two SLB boxes in one tupperware container

and one of the SLB boxes has cigars that are infected how pray tell can they (beetles) get to the

other SLB in the same continer.  And if they (beetles) can how do they perform that feat.

 

You will be able to tell if there is tobacco dust in the cigar boxes and obviously the pin sized holes. As for knowing if they're inside the cigar lying in wait. I have no idea. Look at me. I checked all the cigars prior to freezing and they looked fine! Boy was I wrong.

In your particular case if you have noticed that the cigar beetles have come out of your SLB then freeze them and any cigars that have been in contact with them (the other SLB).

Hope that helps.

Luca

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[kuma]

Luca but how do they (beetles) get to the other SLB box in the same tupperware container (example: placing a cigar that

is from the contaminated SLB box to the other SLB clean box) I could understand.  But nothing of the sort

has happened, I have kept the boxes and smokes away from each other.

[Luca]

5 minutes ago, kuma said:

Luca but how do they (beetles) get to the other SLB box in the same tupperware container (example: placing a cigar that

is from the contaminated SLB box to the other SLB clean box) I could understand.  But nothing of the sort

has happened, I have kept the boxes and smokes away from each other.

Magic?

They are small, evil, conniving little creatures. They can get through boxes, even the smallest gaps in the joinery. Most cigar boxes use finger joints and I have seen some that don't marry up properly. The beetles could of gotten through there. I've heard that they can chew through plastic to get to a cigar.

They will find a way...

[Luca]

Got a response from the Vendor. They thanked me for notifying them and asked if I would like to return the cigars.

What do you guys think I should do? Just to be safe - should I return them? Or will the rest be ok (only 2 cigars had beetles in them)?

[Luca]

8 hours ago, shlomo said:

I have seen them. Smoked them. Crunched and popped them. Keep them separate from your regular stock. I suggest a tupperware with a boveda. Smoke away. Smoke even the ones with holes. Just keep your finger over the hole. I have done it several times and its been fine.

I've never smoked ones with holes in them. What was it like?

[maxcjs0101]

I had a beetle hole in one of my RACA sticks and i didnt notice it initially until i saw fine dust on my lap.

I froze all the sticks and the vendor was kind to refund me the damaged stick.